metcalph

I find this odd coming from a person who just argued that the Thanatari wouldn't behave consistently. He doesn't have to believe it for it to be effective. Ibn Battuta recounts the tale of how the people of Delhi used to insult the Sultan by writing horrible things about him and sealing them with the inscription "By the hand of the Master of the World; none but him may read this" and throwing the sealed missives into his palace, where nobody would read them but the Sultan. Even though they were not true, they still had an effect on the Sultan who decided to raze the city.

You seem to be arguing that people can copy a book quickly for a Thanatari to devour and that a Thanatari priests has enough initiates on hand to work full time at satisfying his desires. Those are as plausible as the 90% initiate requirement which is to say, not very. You also ignore that copying documents is at odds with the desires of the god, which is to devour knowledge and screw others. Yet a Thanatari priest has enough on hand to copy documents quickly and accurately? I didn't say regularly, I said quickly. A Thanatari priest acquyires a valuable book which he wants to eat. Out of concern for others, he waits several weeks while his lackeys copy the book to an uncertain event. Why not READ the book instead of eating it? It is however found in the literature viz a viz the Book of Secrets and the Abiding Book.

It would mess them up by being something that they know but have no idea where it came from. I doubt the libraries would boobytrap their works because Thanatar isn't that prominent a God to be worth safeguarding their shelves from.

The Enerali had some Orlanthi customs in the storm Age. These survived the Great Darkness to become recognized by the World Council. What are you talking about? Between Ehilm and Erulat, not Seras and Erulat. Seras is another name for Sewravus the Enchanter who lived in Aron which is in Western Ralios. He is not identified with Zzabur by anybody nor is he identified as the Evil Emperor. Wow. After originally saying the Vingkotling liberation of the enslaved Kachisti didn't exist and being disproven it by citing chapter and verse, I get the above goalpost-shifting. Excuse me? I am saying that the Enerali are Kachati who had been enslaved by the Mostali in the Storm Age and then liberated by Vingkotlings. Their culture would then be Orlanthi with Malkioni roots. What are you arguing *for* if you think I am so wrong? So the major culture in Ralios living south of Nida, isn't Malkioni, doesn't get enslaved by the Mostali and isn't liberated by the Vingkotlings. So who were the God Learners talking about thern? And Vingkotlings =/= Vingkot. Vingkot was long dead by the time any of this happened and no longer worshipped.

90% in a cult skill to become an initiate is clearly ridiculous. Even Lhankor who did have a 90% requirement in Cults of Prax now only has a 50% requirement in RQ:G. Looking at the revamped version in Shadows on the Borderlands, the 90% requirement is shifted the the Doomed (Acolytes). Secondly relying on a text copied by a fellow Thanatari is cleartly insane. They could always take a page from the Name of the Rose and poison the paper (ie the scroll is transcribed onto a special form a paper which is POT 20 per page when eatern) on which it is written or more subtle poisons ((insert lies into the text "the high priest is planning to take your head" or the "The copyist of this scroll is totally trustworthy and can be entrusted with whatever gold, treasures and magics you chose to give him" or "Saying Hrothmir's name backwards three times confers you temporary immunity to magics cast by Storm Bull"). Thirdly there is the time element. Copying a text by hand was quite a lengthy process in the Middle Ages and I doubt the Gloranthans find the process much quicker. We're looking at a season or two of downtime and I doubt the Thanatari would be so paitent. Lastly I doubt that grimoires are solely resident on the page and have some otherwordly component. Merely copying a grimoire would not copy the wisdom within, it has to be illuminated so to speak.

I never said they were. They were however liberated from their mostali slavery by Vingkotlings and afterwards took on Orlanthi customs. And I didn't say they had Malkioni myths. What I said was they view the myths (of the time when they were Malkioni) as if they were Vingkotlings just as the Greeks viewed Troy. And the evidence for the Enerali not have been Malkioni is what? They live in the area which was taken over by Nida and later liberated by the Vingkotlings! Try Guide map p688 which has arrows from the Vingkotlings past Top of the World and Nida on both sides... Also the text:

Your original statement was "In HeroQuest, at least, the worship of Pavis grants no magic". Do you concede that was wrong?

Pavis uses the Man Rune Affinity (Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p363) which would be rune magic in RQG.

Don't know where that's from. Because their memories of the period is viewed through a Vingkotling lens (just like Troy is viewed through a Mycenaean lens) The mythical maps say otherwise.

But their mythology is still a fusion of Malkioni and Orlanthi myths. In addition Zzabur himself knows Ehilm by that name.

Places an awful lot of trust in initiates to copy out the grimoires accurately as well require an uncharacteristic amount of patience by the priests to wait as the tome is being copied. I think they just devour first without making copies for others as that fits better with the ethos of their god.

It's a thing among the Hrestoli to experience Joy AFAIK. Which has nothing to do with my original point that basing the Trader Princes philosophy upon Castelain is misplaced. Castelain is an explorer, a Marco Polo seeking fabulous lands of riches; what Castelain is not is a Thinker. Malkioni philosophy is not based on heroic deeds of derring- do but abstract enquiries. Insofar as the Trader Princes are henotheists, it's something they've brought with them from Safelster and isn't anything thought up by Castelain. As for the wizards being largely foreigners, I stand by that. The society of the Trader Princes is not suited to producing wizards in large numbers as it doesn't have any large cities. Thus if the Trader Princes want sorcerous dominance over the local Orlanthi, they are likely to consider hiring foreign sorcerors, such as the Arkati (from Safelster or Arkat's Hold), Zzaburi (from God Forgot), Rokari (from Seshnela), Lhankorings (from Nochet) or even Ramalians. Simply relying on the local talent won't get them very far.

The Enerali were originally Malkioni having been enslaved by the Mostali before their liberation by the Vingkotlings in the Storm Age. Now you might argue that there was some point in which Ehilm was unknown to the Malkioni of the Land of Logic (Early Golden Age perhaps). I consider that immaterial because IMO the Malkioni had long considered Ehil to be the Sun in the Storm Age.

When yer king of france, you've got better things to do then go around all day remembering your bloody number!

Castelain works fine as a trading hero of Issaries without wizards having to use him as a basis for sorcery. The Trader Princes would be happy with hired wizards who understand and appreciate gold rather than wizardsw who claim to be on their side and repeat jargon they can't understand.

I daresay they would worship Issaries and Castelain. Particularly adventurous types among them would also worship Orlanth but that's not their main goia. Ehilm is a Malkioni deity. Thus you can't use his worship to argue that the people of Helby are not Safelstrans. Even in the history maps, Helby manages to be part of: The Dark Empire The New Dangim Alliance The Estali. Which makes them pretty Safelstran to me. Likewise in the population tables (Guide p375) Helby is listed under Safelstrans as opposed to the Orlanthi of Lankst or Delela.

I doubt that Treack would be able to provide anything like that in RQG nowadays. He's a renegade, not a god.

A small note about the death of the gods passage. The passage is only a single paragprah appended onto the end of another text in a different font (1st edition KOS was quite different,, 2nd edition is only in italics). This may be a case of a orphan paragraph being attached to a text which may not have originally had it.

I just treat the Sartarite Settlers, the Riverfolk and the Old Pavisites as clans.

It came to me many years ago wondering if Shargash was so important, why wasn't he mentioned in Cults of Prax? I qualify the theory somewhat these days by making Shargash the equivalent of Amastan, the fire spirit caught by Zorak Zoran and that Shargash has his own dark shadow, through which he can obtain darkness magics. So really Shargash and Zorak Zoran have become Cosmic Twins of Fire and Darkness, worshipped throughout glorantha by many people unaware of their true nature.

Past ideas I have had: Vashanti is Lhankor Mhy Sheng Seleris and Argrath heroquested back to the Nights of Horrors to kill the Red Emperor and stuff up the Lunar Empire. Shargash is Zorak Zoran. GanEstoro is Argan Argar. Ompalam is Pamalt. Xemela is Chalana Arroy.

Rune Lords of Orlanth.

Cult business should be reserved for serving the Gods rather than the Clan. If the Priest asked you to deal with someone who had profaned the temple and you didn't get paid for it then it would be cult business.

Given a gift that someone has given you to the temple can be considered a snub. The best way to deal with it would be to pay a tithe on its value rather than the object itself.

Yeah so? The Aeolians order their gods differently from the standard Orlanthi but they are still the same Gods. It says of the Aeolians, "The free and talar castes use Rune and spirit magic; the wizard caste uses sorcery". Ergo they are not different gods and there is no sorcerous Orlanth etc. Now I am getting rather tired of people trying to pick nits in what I said instead of applying themselves to answering the original poster's question. If you disagree then please put up your own theory of how the Aeolians should be like instead of tearing apart mine..