jeffjerwin

Yes, if Governal in the Tristram legends is a thing (he was older than Tristram was!). Some squires never become knights. Squires old enough to hit their age should be regularly statted characters in their own right, as Governal assuredly was. He retired, of course, after a while, to be a household steward and later was knighted many years later.

In the Romance of Silence, the hero(ine), a disguised female knight passing as a man, does have an amour, that goes a bit sideways, with a princess. In Yde and Olive, based on a similar story, the heroine becomes the lover of another princess, but when they are discovered she is sentenced to death. God transforms her into a man and the miracle causes her sentence to be revoked, and the hero then marries his/her lover. Just putting out there that there's nothing 'anachronistic' about such stories (in case anyone has that objection). Courtly love is always either adulterous or (not quite as proper) out of wedlock. Hence making it more transgressive by involving two women isn't really as big a leap as it might seem to us.

Pellinore was not a very religious fellow. I think that was a matter he left to Pelles. The Grail kings of course are not necessarily perfect, anyway. Both Pellinore and Palomides share an essential restlessness and inability to settle down, so that the Beast matches their weaknesses. Palomides displaces his frustration over his love for Isolt onto the Beast, and Pellinore his failures as a man (he pretty much abandons his family, both his siblings and his wife and children). Edit: I have the Grail knights start out as eleven monk-soldiers (plus their king for twelve) in the mists of time, but as a dying order, represented by the 510s by Eliezer alone, in Arthur's day... Pellinor and at least one of his brothers failed the tests to be accounted one of them, showing the decline of their family.

Perilous Forest has detailed maps of the area. You'll find (early) boundaries detailed also in the Book of Sires.

It's not really that weird, from an overall medieval history standpoint. Sometimes 'family names' were given concurrently, so you had 'John the elder' and 'John the younger'. This even happened among the Welsh (the Cymry). It was more common for when you had children by a second marriage, but that's pretty close to what you're describing.

This is an inconsistency in Malory's sources. The Lancelot-Grail (including the Morte, when she could have easily assassinated Arthur) had the focus of her enmity being Guinevere because the new queen separated her from her lover Guiomar; she consistently wishes to shame Guinevere, who she thinks is a hypocrite, rather than Arthur (and even Lancelot: her target is his lover). In the Post-Vulgate she first attempts to murder her husband and later there is the strange attempt on Arthur's life; it says she hated him because she was bad and he was good, which is a pretty weak attempt to justify things. The primary reason is because the PV shifted the focus from Lancelot to Arthur and Morgan was a convenient villain. Of course pondering such things is a bit like trying to discuss continuity in characterization in comics. In any case, Margawse never shows any malevolence in the romances; that representation of her is TH White's. Morgan may be a child at the feast, but she is already "bad", yet would be overlooked. I dislike Merlin for it because of Merlin's fatalism. It feels too interventionist for me; his major acts of 'altering fate' seem to be on behalf of Arthur alone, and I don't see how this helps Arthur except in a roundabout way. In the Lancelot-Grail, of course, Arthur becomes king only a year or so after Uther's death, not after an extended Anarchy. That makes more sense: Arthur is ready and Uther is becoming worse. But the best choice may be for some utterly personal reason, directed against some Uther for some seemingly petty reason, but of great importance to the culprit. I used Morgan for my Cornish campaign, but if I ran a Logres campaign I'd make the murderer someone the PCs love and respect, who has a private and tragic reason for the act.

My interpretation is that Morgan hates Guinevere, not so much her brother.

Cambenet is essentially part of Malohaut; it includes the valley of the Eden or what is now eastern Cumbria.

Well, there's Tantric Buddhism, which was actually practiced in China. That's a goldmine of strangeness, decadence, and innovation. If you read David Gordon White's The Alchemical Body there's a great deal of evidence that older tantrism (before 'orthodoxy') had a lot more sex and transgression in it than later stuff. I wonder though: Taoism would seem closer to draconic mysticism in my mind, since tantrism is derived from a materialist position, that sacralized the body. The overlap between South Asian tantrism and the Buddhist stuff is in the meditative and ecstatic praxis more than the theory I think.

I don't recommend what lordabdul suggests. I think it's better to have the durulz be repellant on the basis of the composition of their feathers. Also, perhaps, their smoking habits and general air of superiority.

Viz. machines: the Dwarves were I think enemies of Arkat...

Every culture in Glorantha should have the depth, complexity, and contradictions of the Orlanthi and the Lunars. It's better for gaming and better for storytelling. So I'd say more philosophies is critical. So also should there be more religions, languages, dissidence, and true versus false history. In terms of importing imagery, folklore, and symbolism from other cultures, I'd suggest ancient Malaya, the Hundred Yue, but also - viz. the Kingdom of Ignorance, maybe the Inca and other New World empires?

Tristram was raised in Brittany and in Gaul/France by Christians, so he ended up Christian (and is a not very good one, but as with Gawaine, respects Christian religious authority). However, the conversion of western Cornwall is synchronized in the saints' lives in that region with Arthur's reign (c.530ish), not much earlier. King Mark is a Christian, for example, but he is specifically described as a convert in saints' lives, while other semi-historical figures in the west like Teudar aren't Christian at all when Arthur is presented as a king. Thus it has an even better claim, historically, to be Pagan than Cambria.

Many Chaos creatures are in pain/massively traumatized and their anger and violence is a response to this; this is definitely the case with Broos. The 'immune system of Glorantha' tends to conflict with their taint. The Storm Bull 'Sense Chaos' is a weirdly empathic response: they feel the pain and anger of the Chaos monster. Illuminated Chaos doesn't suffer in the same way, and hence doesn't trigger this.

Pellinore being Pagan has got to be a mistake. His father and brother are Grail Kings! (and his sons are all Christian as well in later editions). In earlier editions, Gawaine was also Pagan, which was abandoned. Besides the HRB, however, the romances themselves are canon or at least have as good a claim, and North Wales fell to the Christians (with the exception of Chastel Felon, according to the PV) in the latter half of the first century after the death of King Crudel, indeed at the very period that Suetonius visited... Arviragus appears as the evil Argustes in the same source (the Estoire du Graal), so I admit he was probably a pagan in KAP. Lucius was a Christian convert in the Estoire and even in earlier histories (I think Nennius and Bede?). Essentially, the romances and GoM both have Christianity in Britain before the Roman takeover, with it becoming the state religion in 180. However... there are clearly pagan magicians serving Vortigern. Gomeret was evangelized by several saints in the early 500s onward, and Maelgwn was a Christian (ostensibly) (he did have bards in his court, but so did every Christian ruler among the Cymry). So even if Gomeret is Pagan in the 490s, it ceases formally to be so by the mid-500s. All of the great pagan kingdoms are mostly Christian by the Downfall; I'd argue the Paganism's powerlessness against the Wasteland and Christianity's triumph (the Grail Quest) might be decisive in this. The loss to the waves of the pagan strongholds like Lyonesse and Gwaelod might also seem like divine judgment. There is also the association of Paganism or Atheism with Mordred, who closes the Christian churches at his accession.

Paganism is definitely on the wane in KAP. Anglesey's druids were slain long ago and now Christian saints are numerous there... You'd have to go into the wild forests or the bleak uplands to find pagan sites still operating (which is also going to mean a small population of year-round adherents rather than indifferent quasi-Pagan Christians), and not overlaid by Christian churches... Urban paganism is probably underground or merged with folk saints (Matrona becomes the Virgin, for instance, and Apollo St. Michael). As I recall from my own visit to the White Horse, it _is_ in a pretty isolated area. As to whether the MoA did it, it's been something that various literary theorists have detected in the medieval cult of Love for a while. Not necessarily true, but viable for game purposes. Certainly it would be how a pagan would interpret the fairy lady-loves in Breton lays. The sort of persistent hedge-witchery that the peasants practice however won't appeal to many knights. I'm not altogether sure that once separated from the defunct Roman interpretions of the cults that the worshipper of Nodens in one part of Britain, say as a healer, will recognize him as Nudd, a ruler-god or warrior 150 miles away. Local gods tend to be more in tune with the needs of the local population, with rituals and practices that match: that's what keeps Paganism viable or not. Another major aspect of viability is tradition, and that includes the topography of the cult. If a church usurps the high hill, it may get the worshippers, even if they don't care for the innovation, and Belenos may disappear. You can't uproot your beliefs from the hill where the god lives to a similar site where he's worshipped the next tribe/tref over if you don't know the different rituals and don't know which way the sun will rise. Moreover, unlike in modern Neo-Paganism, the other clusters of Pagans are unlikely to simply accept you. Paganism is a pretty inward looking thing. So I get the sense that 'pilgrimages' if they exist are for the bards and druids and enchantresses, the priesthood, with the believers unlikely to be able to get their heads around all the daft other ways of doing things. Of course, the Triads do list Arthur as an initiated bard, as is Tristram. Now, decades ago I did play a pagan knight whose lover was a priestess of Epona, whom he met at the White Horse. He had a lot of horses in his herd... But he end up getting a fief next-door to the Vale of the White Horse, so that worked ok.

I think I'm agreeing with the two of you above, but the very nature of paganism suggests that it is extremely localized. 'Conversion' to Paganism might follow a visit to a passage grave or the Otherworld (same thing, really), which would tend to happen around one of the main festivals. In the Post-Vulgate and the Prose Tristan there's a 'pagan capital' of sorts in Chastel Felon, which is in North Wales somewhere (I have some theories, but Caer Dathyl is a possibility), but the inhabitants are typical medieval romance villains, enemies of Arthur and all that is good and holy. Another possibility is a romance with a Lady of the Lake or a Pagan Enchantress figure, with the lady love symbolizing a pagan divinity. If you want a really off-kilter but very interesting premise, make her Morgan Le Fay or one of her cohorts, so the knight is placed in a difficult position later in the timeline.

I kinda prefer this. Remember, of course, the automatic Amor rolls with Guinevere... Out of universe, this is obviously objectification of the person, based on a Selfish trait. I'm not sure if it would be interpreted that way in the 12/13th centuries. Perhaps, on a fumble or a critical the NPC responds according to their worst or best personality trait, which may or may not be a disaster. 'Generous' = offers hospitality; 'Valorous' = offers to aid them against an enemy; 'Selfish' = seizes or imprisons them; "Lustful" = well...

Some people might have hostile reactions to high APP, however, ranging from envy or distrust (in the case of ascetic religious people), to even if, the character is a woman or child, attempting to abduct the PC. Not sure how to gamify that.

I have a question about cigars. What are those ducks smoking?

In the realm of mythology, matriarchal societies like the Kingdom of Women in the Himalayas (visited by Monkey in the Journey to the West, but based on ancient South Asian legends), and the Amazons do exhibit the sort of dominating behavior that men see in their own societies, but admittedly, this is because these stories are been written or shaped by men. The Kingdom of Women has harems of males for their Queen (into which the monk being accompanied by Monkey is imprisoned), and the Amazons are of course quite violent and xenophobic. However, there are legends like the 'Land/Island of Women' found in Celtic legend - the Celts being generally less misogynistic and viewed with suspicion by the Romans because of the freedom of their women - where there is simply a peaceful and frankly idyllic land ruled by women, sometimes with magical powers, who occasionally entertain sailors.

He's not invincible. In fact he fails a fair bit, just not really that much in combat (he almost dies fighting Marhaus, however). Mostly poor decisions... He is after all, discovered in the woods with Isolt, so he must have failed a Hunting roll somewhere. As an aside Lancelot's main vulnerabilities (besides Guinevere) seem to lie in these DEX-based situations. He never fails, of course, until the Grail Quest, when he fails badly. Gawaine should be Dexterous as well, as his survival of the deadly Marvelous Bed in the Conte du Graal shows. Really, what is the issue here is that every Arthurian major hero has got excellent statistics, better than anything but lucky rolls for random stats would provide. The rules make the vast majority of PCs the equivalent of second- or third-tier heroes. Nor are these stats for these heroes the result of extraordinary Glory; all of these characters have these innate abilities in their teens or early twenties, before they even are admitted to the Round Table. In essence, the game may need a sidebar explaining that heroic tier characters (with higher starting statistics) belong in a style of campaign where the PCs rival or replace some of the main heroes and heroines, but the standard campaign does not work that way: they are the characters, who, while famous and well-regarded, are more likely to be followers of these heroes or rescued by the heroes than be the leaders of the Round Table. I do think that 'high-level' campaigns, where Lancelot doesn't exist, and is replaced by a PC or group of PCs, for example, should be an option. Overall, the most mundane and ordinary use of DEX is for jumping from battlements or tower windows, and avoiding dying. This doesn't require a supernatural environment, and is a frequent event when avoiding husbands and fathers. DEX will be more useful when KAP has a fuller Romance sub-game (for knights and ladies alike) and when some of the more Otherworldly enchanted castle/Grail adventures are out there for the game.

While Robin Hood is not a KAP hero... (though the stuff about sneaking around castles and in the woods applies to a significant part of Tristram's story, which is why it is both older and more modern in content than the Lancelot-Guinevere affair)... Guinevere and Isolt are KAP heroines. I strongly support providing Lady characters with at least a bit more to do, as is argued here. Other mini-scenarios and solos that women could do or aren't really gendered, and which are rooted in the romances, might include: the 'tournament of ladies'; 'nursing the wounded' (or even nursing the fugitive or incognito wounded as at Astolat, but there are many other examples); 'go-between in a love affair' (this can be rather stealth oriented) 'defending the manor from bandits or raiders' 'the fairy lover' or 'negotiating with the fairies/the peace emissary' 'murder mystery'

I like two French movies: Lancelot du Lac by Bresson (for the feel of the Downfall), and Rohmer's Perceval le Gallois, for a totally different experience, an adaption of the Conte du Graal. Both are an acquired taste. They are also much more faithful to the romances than anything in English. A Knight's Tale is not Arthurian but is quality entertainment with an excellent ambience for tournaments. The modern music may put off some people, but it does give a sense of the common human enthusiasm we share with the people of the Middle Ages, if that makes sense. The recent Tristan & Isolde isn't bad and is a (non-Arthurian) representation of that legend that's pretty accessible. Parsifal from 1982 is pretty trippy but is an amazing performance. The Grail Quest is trippy however.

I think, in general, that KAP's timeline holds up very well as a basis for a game, and for making a proper epic, which is what this is all about. 'Historical' Arthurs are liable to rule a much less grand realm and for a much shorter time. Better to have the grandeur and the anachronism, all in all. The Arthur of even Welsh legend is associating with mainly mid-to-late 6th century heroes, not late fifth century and early sixth century characters. Urien, Owain, Cerdic, Peredur, Rhun and his father Maelgwn, all date to c.530-580. Stripping all that out of the story leaves a pretty bare-bones teulu for him.