pachristian

I counted opinions: Classic RQ (RQ2): 4 - one of which admits he has not played anything else, so I consider that vote suspect. RQ3: 8 RQ6/Mythras: 6 Openquest: 1 D100 Revolution: 2 Home-brew mix: 2 Several people stated they were waiting for RQ Glorantha, but we won't know whether it's any good until we've played it!

The military miniatures campaigns I've played in generally assume 25% killed or deserted (i.e. never available again), 25% too badly wounded to fight again that season, 25% to badly wounded to fight that week, and 25% scattered and demoralized, but available for the next battle. Historically speaking, 25% casualties is considered pretty horrendous.

For dealing with min-max, I have a system. I spent some time studying the skills in Mythras. I counted how often each characteristic was used, and which skills were likely to be repeated (such as multiple instances of Craft or Lore). I then generated a comparative value for characteristics. I give a PC a value of 13 in all characteristics (along with a table of average SIZ and STR ratings for various cultures): STR = 1, CON = 1, SIZ = 1, DEX = 2, INT = 3, POW = 2, CHA = 1* So if a player chooses to lower his INT from 13 to 11, he gains 6 points to spend on other characteristics. But if he lowers his CHA from 13 to 11, he only gains 3. To raise his DEX to 15, he needs 4 points. etc, and so on. *Charisma, by the way, should actually be a 2, not a 1, based on the number of skills affected, and the impact of the IP bonus. However, I needed to counter a common PC tendency to dump CHA down to 7. I use the same multipliers for permanent attribute training: each point is 4 weeks of training and 5 IP, with the exception of SIZ, which cannot be trained. So you can train up your STR from 14 to 15 using 5 IP and 4 weeks. But to raise your DEX from 14 to 15 costs 10 IP and 12 weeks.

I’ve played every version of RQ to date. RQ1 (Brown cover) - weaned of D&D and Chivelry and sorcery. I bought it because it was based on the same world as my favorite strategy game: Nomad Gods. Chaosium RQ 2: Loved it and ran it for years. I still admire the game that, in 141 pages, gave you everything you needed to play, and nothing you did not need. To be fair, the game really took off with Cults of Prax. That finally gave us the context to play the game. I still love Prax and Pavis. My biggest beefs were the unbalanced skill bonuses, and the total eradication of any believable economy because of the high costs of training. I changed that by house rule. While I love the old game, I would not go back to playing it again as a regular campaign. It’s clunky and limited in many ways. RQ3: This version fixed a lot of issues with RQ2. Starting with the training costs! I liked the smoother skill bonuses (although they were still very unbalanced). My experience with the sorcery system was interesting: I started out disliking it, as so many people did. But then I took the time to really study it, and study magicians of myth and legend, and pulp. I slowly learned that the sorcery system was in fact an excellent system, that if played intelligently and by the rules, produced wonderful magic effects. Sadly, the NPC wizards in all of the scenario packs appeared to be built by people who used the “throw numbers at it and call it awesome” approach. I also appreciated how well the magic systems balanced against each other: Each had it’s strengths and weaknesses, and most important, they were self-regulating. One major problem they had was RQ3 removed the limits from spells and enchantments. While that sounds fine in theory, in practice it created an arms race: How powerful are the enchantments protecting the Emperor of Byzantium? He could have hundreds of years of wizards enchanting stuff for the empire as their taxes. Mongoose RQ 1: My experience with this is summed up by describing a chat I had with one of the designers at Kublacon: He said that they were aware of the flaws in the game. The various playtesting groups all had house rules, which did not make it into print. In other words: They playtested a different game than the one they sold. Enough said. Nash-Whittaker RQ: Mongoose RQ2, Legend, RQ6, and Mythras. These four games were each an evolution of the previous. This is my go-to version of the game. The combat system take some getting used to; but players quickly start to use maneuvers, and once they combine maneuvers and teamwork, combat becomes fun, dynamic, and exiting. It’s also better than most RPG’s with their “whittle-down-the-hit-points” systems. Mythras dramatically improved the spirit combat system; among other things it added combat maneuvers. Shamans in N-W RQ are actually fun to play - I never liked them in the older versions of the game. The Mystic Magic system introduced in RQ6 (and repeated in Mythras) creates great “I don’t use magic” characters. Because the game system uses improvement points instead of check marks, it also uses a simplified skill list. I appreciate this: I remember too many times when players couldn’t figure out if they should use Spot, Search, etc. Skills are based on two attributes, giving a simple base, and no need to struggle with bonuses. The one drag on the skill systems is the combination of Language/Literacy/Customs. Where most skills in N-W RQ are consolidations of 3 or 4 skills from BRP (for example, Athletics covers running, jumping, and climbing), languages are made unnecessarily difficult. Classic adventurer characters always seem to speak half a dozen languages or more, and pick up languages easily, so this rule, to me, violates the conventions of the genre. I house-rule it. Several of my friends dislike how slow advancement is in N-W RQ. One said “the game system is designed to bring you to the sweet spot (for optimal adventuring) and then keep you there.” My response is “So?”. Mythras is my go-to game system at this time. I am planning to use it for a Pavis-based game that I’m setting up now. RQ Glorantha (Preview Release only): I saw some good ideas here, but I really need to see the full rules, and play them, before I can say anything. I didn’t see anything as innovative as the combat maneuvers in NW-RQ. We’ll see what happens.

In ancient times... The original "Greyhawk" book (TSR 1975) had a pumpkin-headed creature with glowing eyes at the back of the book. Nobody could figure out what it was. But it apparently made it's way into the original RQ.

True, but while we're at it, mail is anachronistic, as is riding on the back of an animal. The catch is that we, as players, are not bronze-age people. To us, paying for everything with lumps of metal is an anachronism, and we enjoy it immensely. Colorfully named coinage enhances the fantasy for most of us. But it also has to be kept simple - hence we call all silver pieces "Lunars" or "Guilders". In all probability, every petty kingdom has it's own name and weight of coinage... "The exchange rate is 17 Ramalian Tusks for 13 Grazelander Loshadi". It's fun to throw in for color, but do you really want to have a chart of exchange rates on the back of your character sheet? "New exchange rates this week gang; a new silver mine was found in Otkorion and the Esrolian economy took a hit when Graymane plundered Nochet." To answer Mankcam's question, why not name the coinage after the castes? Taeles - Gold Zables - Silver Horles - Copper Droles - Lead Or something like that. But don't get too exotic, or hard to pronounce, or your players won't be able to use it.

Myself, I have coins in more than units of 1. Coins in the Guide to Glorantha are given as copper and silver 0.2 troy ounces - so ~6.1 grams each. A gold wheel is .36 troy ounces ~11.2 grams. All three coins are about the size of a United States quarter (gold is almost twice as dense as silver) (~6 grams, and ~24 mm across). I have copper bolgs (also called "clods"); which are ~.6 grams, about 1/2 the diameter of an american dime. A mere 8mm across (about 1/3 of an inch, they are "small change" but are much more convenient than lead bolgs. Clods are usually triangular shaped. I also have silver clacks, also ~.6 grams, and the same size as copper bolgs. They are worth the same as a copper clack, but again, are much more convenient to carry. Most coins are round, to discourage clipping. In my game, Holy country guilders are six-sided, to represent the six kingdoms ruled by the pharaoh. The Dara Happens have gold "spokes" (called "arrows" by most Yelmalions). These dart-shaped coins are each 1/10 of a wheel. They are about 20mm long, and 2 to 3 mm wide. Solar cultists may not like using silver, but they can't buy everything with wheels! Other coins include 2, 4, and 5 clack and 1/4, 1/2, 2, and 4 guilder pieces. 4-guilder coins are often called 'masters', as 4 guilders a day is the approximate pay for a master craftsman. A Dara Happen "Wagon" is a huge gold coin, worth 4 wheels.

The sample gifts on page 202 provide an excellent set of examples of "superpowers" for player characters. A character who has more than one or two of them is pretty amazing. I set a standard for my game that a "hero" could fight four 'normal' experts and have a better than 50% chance of winning, or fight a generic dragon and have a better-than-average chance of winning. My number crunching led me to the idea that a character with ~150% in all of their key skills, appropriate magic, and 1 to 3 'edges' (such as the gifts), qualified nicely as a hero. Key skills in this case are your combat skills, and supporting magic. For a demigod (or to use the old parlance from White Bear, Red Moon, "Superhero"), a character needs to be able to defeat 4 ordinary 'heroes' in combat. This takes key skills around 200% (that 50% edge is enough to make parries almost certain, and evade well enough to not get overwhelmed by numbers). The character needs his 'edges' to be ramped up to be as much greater in proportion to the heroes as the hero has to normal people. An 'Edge' might well be a weapon of godly proportions. Lately, I've used the character Maui, from the movie Moana (Disney, 2016), as a role-model for demigods. Maui is superhumanly strong and tough, and his magic fishhook can deal out, or block, an enormous amount of damage. His hook also allows him to shape shift as a single action. Against giant monsters, Maui uses speed, distraction, and his shapeshifting to avoid direct attacks, while he sets himself up for precision attacks. As for his more mythic feats - like slowing the sun, or raising islands from the sea - those are something that would be handled by game storytelling, not by specific rules.

Want to teach Glorantha? Then start by NOT ramming it down the player's throats. Nobody cares about those awesome NPC's who did things you can't do over there. Nobody cares about the detailed cosmology. Nobody cares about giant volumes of mythology, history, and geography. What they care about it having a good time; getting to roll dice, role-play their characters, and feel heroic. This is what you need to say: This is Glorantha (show map from back of classic RQ book). It's a little different from D&D in a couple of ways. It's an ancient world, not medieval, so no knights in shining armor, and no kings in castles. The main metal is bronze, Iron is a semi-magical metal that does cool stuff, and you might be able to find some, someday. In Glorantha, everyone can learn magic. There's minor magic that everyone learns, and powerful magic that only some people learn. We don't have wizards here (that's another story) but your character can follow a god, and get magic from his god. Gods are active, and your profession and religion are pretty much the same thing - smiths follow a smith god, healers follow the healing goddess and so on. The default gods for my game are Pavis, god of the city you're in who's kind of neutral, Orlanth who is a storm and war god and is against the lunar empire. I've got a list of other gods, but mostly you'll learn about them as we play. The city of Pavis is a frontier city, in the wastelands. The old city of Pavis, now called the Big Rubble, is a massive ruin from era of the dragon empire. Adventurers plunder it for treasure. The Lunar Empire recently conquered this land. This made a lot of people very mad, as many of them were refugees from Sartar, which was conquered a few years ago and they came here for a fresh start and to get away from Lunar taxes. Lunars worship the moon goddess, Sartarites worship Orlanth. Our adventure begins with (give them the basic introduction). Stop there. Let them learn about Glorantha as they play. Introduce one unique or notable aspect of Glorantha every session. Try to hold it to one. Never lecture about Glorantha for more than 5 minutes at once, and not more than once or twice per game. Don't ask them to read anything unless they ask for details. If the players want more, they'll ask for it. Obviously, this introduction is for a Pavis-based game. You can do something similar for any other place.

And thank you for indulging me!

Once the Guide established that the Castle Coast was the world's number one exporter of Iron, and that "perhaps half world's iron comes from here" (Guide to Glorantha, page 417), then we established another item: Iron is a commodity that is bought, sold, and transported around the world. But there's another important point when we see iron as a commodity: the price will be determined by what someone is willing to pay. But to address hkokko's concern about making iron armor something that rune lords could afford, we can look at some additional numbers. I couldn't find a reference to the number of Rune Levels in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure (I probably just missed them). However, Gloranthan Classics Volume 1 - Pavis & Big Rubble, states that there are 104 Rune levels in Pavis. Of these, 42 are Rune Lords or Lord/Priests (RQ Classic system). If this counts the total population of civilized Prax (13,000 people), then there's roughly 1 Rune level per ~125 people. Or one Rune Lord per ~190 people. Rune Lords make up ~40% of the Rune levels. That fits David Scott's numbers, above. Assume that a Rune Lord has his or her own holdings, plus gets 40% of their temple tithes. Given the numbers above, the Rune Lord would draw about 7.6 L per day from tithes, less whatever the temple expenses are. Just to be generous, let's say that the rune lord is able to keep about half that money: ~200 L per season. If the Rune Lord comes from a profession that makes more money - a trader prince, or a Humakti mercenary, the Rune Lord's income could be quadrupled. It is unlikely to go beyond that withoutUsing my numbers above, it would be a pretty impressive rune lord who could afford a bronze suit of mail, let alone iron. Bronze mail ~1,000 L, of which ~400 is the bronze. Scale, or hoplite style plate is about half the cost of labor, but the same cost in bronze. So ~700 L. Should most rune lords be able to afford a suit of iron armor? If you want iron to be a purchasable item, I propose that the cost of the iron be further reduced to 5 times the cost of bronze (110 L/kg). This makes a suit of iron mail cost ~2,600 L, a suit of iron hoplite gear about ~2,300 L. An iron sword would cost ~100 to 150 L more than a bronze sword. Of course, if you're not a rune lord or priest, the disadvantages of having iron may outweigh the advantages. I'm inclined to think that well-organized governments (Like Seshnela, Esrolia, or the Lunar Empire), and even big temples, would consider iron a strategic asset. They automatically claim ownership of all iron within their borders. They compensate at a "fair price" anyone for the iron; but iron can only be bought and sold to the representatives of the government. Less well organized region (Orlanthi Clan lands and Praxian Wastes) generally don't have the cash to buy iron at the 'fair price'.

Of course! You could build a whole series of adventures around a Trader Prince offering to donate hu-metal to a tribe or clan, in exchange for some minor tax concessions.... Myself, I kind of like the idea of and adventure where Roger the Rune Lord was killed by trolls, and they dumped his iron armor into a pit - and the PC's are sent by their cult to try to retrieve it.

An excellent point. Without going through all the rigmarole again, accept that the value of armor grade steel in in our world converts to about 1.5 to 2 L per kg. that 600 L suit of mail, and the 381 L suit of plate, both have about 30 to 40 L worth of metal in them. Also accept that an armor smith's ("harness maker's") pay is about 4 L per day. I spent some time talking to a modern professional mail-maker, and he told me it takes about 600 hours of work to make a suit of mail. I'm already treading delicately on a whole lot of assumptions here, but bear with me. I have no idea if thatchers were 'median pay' for their era. Medieval salaries are hard to assess anyway, as quite often your cash pay was a stipend, on top of food, lodging and clothing. Likewise, when i was told 600 hours to make a suit of mail, I did not think to ask if that was starting from wire (which halves the work), or if that was riveted mail, etc. etc). So, 600 hours to make a suit of mail would mean that about 1/2 the price of the mail was labor, and 10% - 15% was material. This seems fair, but that's an unsupported assumption. The rest of the cost would go to consumables - rent on the shop, tools, and lots and lots of charcoal (which burns with a more even heat than wood, something crucial for making armor and weapons). Switching to Gloranthan Iron, at 700 L per kg, makes the cost of labor and other consumables negligible. Frankly, when a suit of armor is "about 15,000 L" it's not worth the effort to add in the ~460L for the forging. It's the difference between a ring with a rhinestone, and a ring with a diamond. In the latter case, the bulk of the value is in the diamond. Which leads us to another biggie: Who forges the suit of armor? In our world, working bronze and working iron are related skills, but have very different requirements. It seems unlikely that your local Gustbran smith would learn how to work iron. Much as I hate using handwavium, in this case I would rule that the ability to work the iron is magically imparted; the smith works it as if it were bronze. Just a side note: Making armor out of bronze at 22 L per kg, vs our world at 2 L per kg raises the prices: A suit of mail goes to ~1,000 L, plate to ~780 L. So who can afford this stuff? In the 14th century, there were about 1,000 knights in England (https://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/123/123 13 Society.htm), in a population of ~5 million (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography) (range given is 3.7M to 7M). That's about 1 knight per 5,000 people. Conveniently, that's also the ratio of tribal kings in Sartar (Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes). So we make another big assumption: an Orlanthi Tribal King (who is almost by definition a Rune Lord of Orlanth), has resources equivalent to a knight. A knight's average income was 40 lbs per year, so running that through our converters, we get an Orlanthi Tribal King's income ~18 L per day - about 1,000 L per season. Another big assumption: A modern person's car is usually their second biggest expense, and has a value of 1/4x to 1x their annual salary. Let's assume that the tribal king can get away with spending 1 season to 1 year's money on his fancy armor. That's 1,000 to 5,000 L. By this logic, our Orlanthi tribal king can afford good bronze armor, but not iron. From the same source that gave us 1,000 knights, we see there were 200 higher nobles - barons and such. These people (see my previous post) are drawing 100 to 250 L per day (~5,600 to 14,000 per season). THEY can afford Iron armor, but it is a stretch. Given the comparative population of 13th century England, and Dragon Pass, we have maybe 25 people who have that level of wealth. Conclusion Iron Armor is not bought and sold by the Orlanthi. Orlanthi obtain it by questing - either mundane quests to Seshnela, or hero quests to regions where Iron is more available. I would argue that when a Rune Lord dies, his armor is taken by his temple, or his liege lord, and it is then repurposed for the next rune lord. There might even be a waiting list for who gets a suit of armor passed to them. Iron armor that is damaged in battle is salvaged and repaired, or melted down and reforged. In fact, you could build a whole adventure around characters trying to recover a suit of iron armor from trolls - or any other rivals.

This is the answer I was needing. I'll take this as that Praxians count Coup by brave deeds - but poking a dead enemy with a stick is not part of their tradition.

Iron is expensive in the bronze age. A matched set of daggers were found in Tutankhamen's tomb. One had an iron blade, the other a solid gold blade. It was known that Tut was relatively poor, as pharaoh's go, so for years the assumption was that he could only afford 1 gold dagger, and the iron was a matched set. Then it was discovered that in the 14th century BC, Iron was five times as valuable as gold. So yes, his matched set was done that way because he could only afford one iron dagger, and had to make do with ordinary gold for the other. Seriously though, let's take a stab at armor weight: 25 kg. Seriously. Throughout history, a full soldier's kit has massed right about 30 kg. Sometimes it climbs up to about 35-40 kg, and sometimes it drops a little, but a full soldier's kit always hovers around 30 kg. It's not about the material, it's about what can a man carry all day, and still be expected to fight. The only people who could afford full suits of armor could also afford servants who would carry their stuff; so armor and weapons made up the full 30 kg of equipment. Although it's gaming convention to have heavier and lighter suits of armor, the truth of the matter is that the full suit of armor was always as heavy as the wearer could take (given environment considerations). Now about money. My primary source here is Kenneth Hodges "List of price of medieval items" (http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html). A complete suit of mail, 12th century, is given as 100 shillings. A suit of ready-made milanese armor (i.e. full plate) is given as 8 lbs, 6 shillings, 8 pence in 1441. Let's convert both prices to pence: Mail (12th century): 1,200 pence. Plate (15th century): 2,000 pence. Now we have to adjust for inflation. From the same website, we find that a Thatcher was paid ~2 pence per day. In 1441 he was paid 5.25. Let's adjust both prices to 12th century values: Mail = 1,200 pence. Plate = 762 pence. This is accurate, by the way. Mail is the most expensive form of armor ever made in mass quantities. Mail is 600 day's pay for a skilled laborer. Plate is 381 day's pay for a skilled laborer. From this we can convert to gaming money. Classic RQ defines a Lunar as worth about "Five pre-WW2 US dollars". An average salary at that time was ~$1,900 per year (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/30soirepar.pdf. An average salary is about 380L per year. Using this logic, 1 Lunar is about 1 days pay+. A suit of mail is therefore worth ~600 lunars, plate is ~381L. Note that these are prices based on extrapolation: I know they're different from what's in the rules. Don't troll me to point that out. So how much money do our lords and ladies make? Same website: A mercenary knight makes 2 shillings a day (1316). Armored Infantry makes 6 pence per day. A baron's annual income is around 200 - 500 pounds (1300), An earl makes twice that, and crown revenue (for England) is 30,000 pounds (1300). Converting these to Lunars, just as we did the armor, we find: Knight: 19 L/day. Armored Infantry ~4 L/day, a landed baron's income is about 100 to 250 L per day, an Earl's is about 200 to 500 L per day, and a medium-sized kingdom takes in something like 15,780 L/day. We've now established that a suit of mail costs about a month's pay for a knight. (In 1300 they didn't have plate yet). Using this for a leap of logic, a landed baron could (possibly) spend 3,000 to 7,500 L for a suit of armor. A wealthier noble could spend 15,000 L for the suit of armor. Keep in mind, these guys are the 1% of the 1% of their day. If a full kit of Iron (weapons, armor, etc) is 30 kg, and Iron is ~2,000 L per kg, then we're looking at 60,000 L for a full kit of iron: armor, weapon, shield fittings and so on. It would actually be less than 30 kg of iron, because of the weight of padding, straps, and so on. So call it 20 kg of iron, and 10 kg of reinforcing material - the shield in particular is probably still wood. So 40,000+ L for a full kit in iron. (in modern money that would be about $5 million). If we use 700 L per kg then it would be about 14,000+ L for a full kit. This makes the iron armor affordable for the wealthiest of nobles. Wrapping up my long-winded entry, I recommend retaining the value of metals that I gave earlier, to stay consistent with Guide coin sizes, but reduce the value of Iron to 700 L per kilogram. This makes it only about 40% as valuable as gold, but otherwise keeps the metal values and coin sizes consistant with older editions.

Some of the Plains Tribes of North America practiced "Counting Coup". This was a way of counting how many brave acts a warrior did. Quoting from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup): Counting coup refers to the winning of prestige against an enemy by the Plains Indians of North America. Warriors won prestige by acts of bravery in the face of the enemy, which could be recorded in various ways and retold as stories. Any blow struck against the enemy counted as a coup, but the most prestigious acts included touching an enemy warrior with the hand, bow, or coup stick and escaping unharmed. Risk of injury or death was required to count coup. In a previous game, I made "counting coup" from touching a dead enemy a real risk, as the enemy's spirit could (if it was still hanging around, % equal to enemy's POW) attack you in spirit combat and avenge it's own death. I'm not sure if I want to keep this in my game, and thought I'd solicit opinions. (a) is the appropriate for "canon" Prax. and (b) does this add to the fun of the game, or simply waste time?

Of course it's difficult. It requires years of play, and the support and cooperation of your fellow players. Can become. "As powerful as" does not mean "have the same stats as". Prince of Sartar describes the fight between Harrek and Jar-Eel. We are told that he was stronger, but she had greater mastery of magic. The characters are equals, but they have different abilities. So, no, a killer whale's STR is not nerfed down. I keep the rule statement simple, as the more complex a rule is, the prone it is to rules-lawyering.

There's a catch with the Elder Secrets list. In RQ3, 1 ENC = 1 Kilogram. In the Guide to Glorantha, a Gold Wheel is given as .36 troy ounces, a Silver Guilder or Lunar is 0.2 troy ounces, and a Copper Clack is 0.2 troy ounces, and a bolg is 1 troy ounce. 1 troy ounce is about 31 grams. Based on the the Guide, the numbers are more like this: 1 kg (ENC) of gold: 89.3 Wheels = ~1,786 guilders or lunars 1 kg (ENC) of silver: = ~160.75 guilders/lunars 1 kg (ENC) of copper: ~160.75 clacks = 16.07 guilders/lunars I would argue that Elder Secrets is no longer canon where contradicted by the Guide. I would keep the ratios of the value of metals the same. The table then looks like this (all numbers rounded). Prices are per Kilogram. Aluminum 130 Bronze 22 Copper 16 Gold 1,770 Iron 2,065 Lead 0.32 Quicksilver 130 Silver 160 Tin 50 Does this make sense to anyone?

My favorite change in RQ over the years was converting Argrath from a name to a title ("Liberator"). In other words, your character could be Argrath, if you really want to be. I run my game that way. One of my Ironclad rules is: No NPC is more powerful than player characters can become. So I make sure I have paths of development that will allow a PC to become as powerful as Harrek, or Jar-Eel. It takes time (many game sessions, good choices, and a bit of luck). My games are not about "powerful NPC's doing things cool things that you can never do".

I think we'd be making a mistake considering pure water as the same as distilled water. That might apply in our world. But Joerg's explanation makes more sense.

After the riddling contest. "Okay, it's like this. For every answer I get right, I get to take a bite out of you. For every answer you get right, you get to take a bite out of me. That's fair, right?"

... starts peeking into caves....

Armorcast (http://www.armorcast.com/miniatures) has many of the old Ral Partha Gloranthan miniatures still for sale. They've renamed them but they''re there: Lance & Laser, Ancient Dark Age Line: Barbarian Berserker = Harrek, Valkyrie = Gunda, Babylonian Emperor = Lunar Emperor, others that are clearly Lunar and Sartarite.. Lance & Laser Dragons Line: Dragonkin Champion = Dragonnewt Warrior, etc. Lance & Laser, Fantasy Monsters Line: Baboon Shaman, Baboons, Beastmen warriors spearmen and shaman = broo.

I just like the idea of my party Yelamalion getting ready to smack down some trolls, only to have the troll leader start to chant: Wandering Sun, Jealous Uncle....

Both great! M Heldon, I like yours but it seems more Yelmic than Yelmalian - but it's great adaption. Jajagappa, nicely done. Thank you both! Okay - any other entries?