Leingod

Yeah, there are plenty of cities in Heortland. Cities themselves were not a new concept to Heortlings when Sartar came around. Sartar's city-building was unusual for the specifics surrounding them, not the simple fact that he built cities.

Agreed. It's actually been one of my issues with trying to get a HeroQuest game together online; I haven't really been able to find a good character sheet that players can fill out on their computer and share it. If that already exists and someone can point me towards it, I'd be hugely grateful. But yes, something like this, especially if it's form-fillable (which would probably need it to be a good deal simpler, but that's fine), would be incredible.

That still leaves the question of miners and quarry-workers, though. Which might just end up handled by local hero-cults or sub-cults of other deities, I suppose.

Asrelia is the keeper of the Earth's wealth, so miners and quarrymen would definitely be propiating her at the very least. Maran Gor, similarly, would need to be paid her due to keep tunnels from collapsing and the like. Additionally, the Guide to Glorantha says that Stone was one of the casualties of High King Elf when he wielded Death against the World Machine, and the Heortlings often think of Mostal as the God of Stone. Depending on how much contact with dwarves exists in a given place, you might see human miners and other stone-workers use dwarven techniques rather than normal theistic worship of some miner-god (and outsiders would probably think they were just worshipers of Mostal in the same way a redsmith is a worshiper of Gustbran). Certainly I wouldn't be surprised to see that was the case in Sartar, where the House of Sartar learned a lot of techniques about building things from the dwarves before relations soured.

Resurrecting this thread due to my re-reading of HeroQuest Glorantha, in which there's a brief mention in the write-up of the Ernalda cult of her own specific virtues (as it had been brought up before in this thread that Orlanth has his six virtues, which are oft-recounted, but most sources on Ernalda don't give her any equivalent that might help roleplay as one of her followers). It lists four: Harmony, Filial Piety, Prudence, and Compassion. So she does have some key virtues you can use to enrich roleplay by giving heroines (or nandan heroes) the chance to display them or to put them in conflict, it's just that they seem to be a bit harder to find. As for what I think those might look like: Compassion is a very easy one, both to give a character chances to display and to put in conflict with other values and virtues. In a lot of ways there's some overlap with how you'd portray a myth or plot thread about Compassion and how you'd do the same with Chalanna Arroy, except that Ernalda can make as well as mend. This would also be your best bet for stories in the vein of Orlanth making friends out of enemies, where rather than beating an enemy Ernalda saves them in some way, or where she shows mercy or compassion to someone earlier who comes to her aid later Androcles' Lion style (and in fact that comparison brings me to mind of the Strength card in tarot, which traditionally depicts a woman who has tamed or subdued a lion). Prudence is where Ernalda's signature indirect approach and understated cunning come in. This is where Ernaldans are expected to be manipulative and calculating, choosing protectors and husbands to do the dirty work and making them think it was their idea, or just outwitting opposition rather than trying to face it head-on. It would be easy to make this conflict with Compassion, where there's a temptation to sacrifice someone or something else, either for the greater good or just personal gain. There's also the issue that sometimes the fastest and easiest route to your destination is, in fact, the straight line, but sometimes looking for the "prudent" solution all the time blinds you to that simple fact. This one is interesting to me, in that it's probably a fairly common trap for an Ernaldan who's very clever can fall into in the same way that an Orlanthi who's very brave might, where too much of one strength becomes a weakness, and perfectly reversed at that: Many young, brave Orlanthi often need to learn that violence is not always the best option and not every problem is a nail he can hammer down, while many a young and clever Ernaldan needs to learn that sometimes she needs to stop looking for "another way" and just hammer in the damn nails already. Filial Piety is a little bit harder to work with, I feel, in that doing your familial duty as an Ernaldan tends to mean not going on adventures, staying at home and helping your community like everyone else. So there's the obvious potential to make this virtue conflict with other virtues and duties that require you to leave your parents and elders behind, but Chinese myth and Confucian literature is replete with examples of how a hero can triumph or make grand sacrifices for their parents and elders. Harmony is kind of hard for me to define, personally. I assume, given this is a list of personal virtues a devout follower of Ernalda will try to display and emulate, that this refers to inner/personal harmony, which is... difficult to nail down. Is that just displaying harmony by being patient and such? Is it keeping calm in dangerous or high-stakes situations and making decisions dispassionately? In either case, how does one put this virtue in conflict with others or give it a downside, or even just have someone display it in a way that's actually interesting or impressive? I'll leave this for other people to define if they'd like to.

There's actually a follow-up to that which explicitly tackles dealing with magic, presenting several different possibilities: https://andrewjluther.com/2017/10/15/heroquest-and-dd-what-about-magic/

I would guess it's also how you make something like a Bag of Winds, which basically stores Umbroli to be released later when you open the bag.

No, QuestWorlds is the open-source version of the HeroQuest ruleset; the name is in reference to that original product, and is intended for the same purpose. That said, there are some tweaks and such to the rules that come from feedback and playtesting since HeroQuest 2e came out, so there are some tweaks and minor differences that one might like to 'port back into HeroQuest. At least, that's my understanding of it, I might be wrong.

Unless they have some special appendix for converting it I imagine you'd essentially have to work out all the mechanical stuff out yourself, given how hugely different the two systems are in what they focus on.

Well, looking at HeroQuest: Glorantha again, while it doesn't have all the gods written up in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, it does at least contain those same write-ups and lists of rune affinities and potential uses for Ernalda, Orlanth, Issaries, Humakt, Lhankor Mhy, the Seven Mothers, and surprisingly Waha, with some stuff written about the Praxian spirit tradition in general. It also lists several other gods commonly worshiped in Dragon Pass with a brief description and their Runes given, so there's at least that starting point for beginners who might be a bit lost on how to handle spirit magic or sorcery. But yes, in general HeroQuest: Glorantha can feel a bit sparse on actual setting detail if it's the first/only book on Glorantha you have, and a beginner would probably want it supplemented with either the Sartar or Pavis book to get more ideas on where to put the heroes and what to throw at them and etc.

Well, someone from Kethaela would likely equate Vorlan with Kolat, given that they're both brothers of Orlanth who support the main spirit tradition of the local Orlanthi, with the differences in portrayal and traditions being well within the many different ways other gods are worshiped and named in different places but still recognized as the same. Spirit traditions would be especially prone to that, given that they'd necessarily be very different from place to place because of the different local spirits they'd need to deal with. Ashara is the "Latest Action" and the "New Revelation" of the Invisible God in the modern world; essentially, it's an anthromorphized version of the Motion Rune (or rather, a version or hero of Issaries worshiped as an aspect of the Invisible God?). Caselain the Traveler is the prophet of Ashara, a Saint (which we would now call an Ascended Master), whose additions to the Abiding Book (the Book of Ashara) and the words and deeds of himself and his companions (many of whom are themselves considered Ascended Masters, and several of whom are claimed by this or that Trader Prince as their ancestor) make up the core of the worship of the Trader Princes. It's a very open-minded, tolerant, and pragmatic take on Malkionism, easily incorporating and adapting itself to the worship of whatever local faiths are necessary or useful for survival, and each of the Trader Prince houses support their own essentially independent branch of the Church (or rather, School) of Ashara, and young Trader Princes often try to retrace his steps as a sort of pilgrimage. As I recall, excerpts from either the Book of Ashara or Caselain's Travelogue paint his journey as at least partly an exodus to escape from tyranny (he was "led by piety, not greed," which was why he succeeded where others failed, for instance). Also, even within Blood Over Gold, it's made pretty clear the Trader Princes are long past being "pure" Westerners in any sense:

In the list of gods in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (with some more written up in the Sartar Companion), each of them has a list of stuff that initiates of that god use their Runes for. The write-up of Orlanth (starts on pg. 121), for instance: And so on for his Motion and Mastery Rune powers. You'll also find a few suggestions regarding common subcults (Barntar can give powers to wrestle foes and plow fields, Destor can let you fight with blinding speed, etc.). If you want to give them suggestions for a god that isn't covered by these books you'll have to write your own, but generally there's plenty to go off of for a Sartarite or Pavisite character in HeroQuest already.

Personally I'd say theistic magic, at least, is really easy for a new player to grasp (as someone who actually first approached Glorantha on the tabletop through reading HeroQuest rather than RuneQuest), so long as you provide that handy list of stuff that initiates of such-and-such god often use such-and-such Rune to do as a launching point. "Err, I don't know, is there a Magic Missile in this game?" "Well, if you join the cult of Orlanth Adventurous, you can use the Motion Rune to throw javelins and rocks super far and accurately, so yeah, you kind of get a literal 'Magic Missile' that you can specialize in if you put points in it."

That said, I've got no problems with going earlier than RQ:G is with a campaign. After all, I'm a spry young'un who only got into this a few years ago, so what is old to many is still about as new to me as the actual new stuff. But I can certainly see why the writers would want to move the default timeline along, at least.

I feel like the difference between the Elminster and WoD examples and how I've seen Argrath used so far are substantial enough that I'm not really worried about the metaplot sidelining anyone's characters, personally. So far, there aren't many actual published adventures I've seen where all the focus is on what Argrath or Kallyr or Leika are doing and the heroes are just being pushed from one set-piece of NPCs doing things to another. Quite the opposite, in fact; in general the actual adventures I've read seem to do a pretty good job at making whatever the heroes are doing feel like it's very important, even if it's not the most important thing going on in Dragon Pass at that exact moment. It's not like there's any suggestion, even in King of Sartar, the book all about the story of Argrath, that Argrath was at all the most interesting places doing all the most interesting things at all times. It even provides the easy "out" to let your group do one or more of Argrath's claimed deeds by bringing up that Argrath is a title and whoever the Argrath was, they probably didn't do everything Argrath is said to have done and were just credited with that stuff much later. This has come up in discussions about Pendragon and the GPC, too, and I think the same general advice I gleaned from there applies: Don't treat it as if everything that's written down in there has to come up in your own campaign. Certainly don't think it has to take center stage. Your campaign is the story of your characters; Argrath is the hero of his story, not your story (unless you want one of your characters or even the group itself to be the Argrath, in which case that problem is solved a different way). And just because Argrath defeats a Lunar army doesn't mean your group has to beat two or else what they're doing doesn't matter.

In HeroQuest at least, the cult of Flintnail provides no rune or spirit magic; initiates of the cult learn the Secrets of Stone, which they can use as a sorcerer's grimoire but otherwise teaches a lot of dwarven lore about classifying, working and shaping stone. The initiates (and one of the requirements to become one is to serve as a journeyman stonemason for at least five years) make up the construction bosses and master stonemasons of Pavis, and in a lot of ways the cult of Flintnail is as much or more of a stonemason's guild with some heavily-guarded trade secrets than a typical rune or spirit cult. So this is another thing where not just your own Glorantha might vary, but apparently what the published books have to say on the matter vary between different game lines or editions. What would that make Ginkizzie, then? Since he definitely hasn't lost his immortality (or if he did, it was recently enough that he hasn't been remarked as aging). A procession of identical-looking dwarves keeping up the conspiracy?

They're confirmed heretics, but not necessarily apostates. As I understand it - and correct me if I'm wrong - any dwarf who still works towards the repair of the World Machine is still following the Way of Mostal, even if he's going about it in a way the Decamony brands as heretical, and the proof of this is that they remain immortal, unlike apostates who abandon their task entirely. The Flintnail dwarves are confirmed to be Openhandists, the heresy that believes non-dwarves can and may in fact be needed to assist in the rebuilding of the cosmos. Ginkizzie, their leader, is the son of Flintnail who has been around since the Second Age, so he's definitely still got his immortality, and is also stated to teach both dwarf and human members of the cult of Flintnail "what they must know to further the Way of Mostal." So, heretics, definitely, but not apostates. Though apparently at least some other dwarves still consider them such anyway: Probably because their friendliness to humans and willingness to share expertise and information is probably considered excessive even by the standards of many other Openhandists. I have a sneaking suspicion that this be because in addition to being Openhandists, the Flintnail dwarves are all or at least largely also Individualists.

Given just how many secret ogre families I've seen in published sources and adventures alone, it honestly doesn't seem that hard.

I've actually wondered this myself, so just to make sure I'm clear on this: Essentially, if you just want to have some spirit magic or sorcery, you don't need the Spirit or Law Runes, there are ways to get access without them like being a Kolating who keys it off the Air Rune instead. But if you want to specialize in spirit magic or sorcery, then the Spirit Rune or Law Rune are effectively if not actually mandatory because it gives you way more options and makes picking up more than one source of that kind of magic easier and more powerful since you can hang it all off of a single Rune. That sound about right?

Another idea, all about chariot racing. Circumstances have led to the resurrection of the worship of both Varnaval the Storm Ram and Saren the Charioteer; not necessarily as part of the Three New Stars, but if you ran that campaign and resurrected one or the other it might make a cool semi-sequel where the other has somehow come back as well (unless you brought them both back, but honestly I don't see why you would). Anyway, the recent introduction of two new charioteer gods has led to a sudden resurgence of interest in the sport of chariot races, which are fast becoming very competitive and divisive as factions are forming around different teams representing different gods. Varnaval and Saren's worshipers have a lot to prove, but so do new teams worshiping Mastakos seeking to prove that Orlanth's charioteer is still the best (Varnaval I think would be a shared sub-cult of both Orlanth and Heler, while Saren is a sub-cult of Elmal/Yelmalio). Factionalism, hooliganism and sports riots are soon to come. The players are a newly-formed chariot team in a major city looking to hit it big, which will require convincing a rich local patron to sponsor them. Players don't all have to play drivers; their characters could make up the pit crew, they might act as promoters/spokesmen, the team's healer (chariot races are dangerous, even more so if magical attacks are allowed), etc. From there, it's all about navigating a new and rapidly-growing sport, not just winning races but also cultivating (and perhaps manipulating) a loyal fanbase, navigating the political and religious consequences that will inevitably emerge, and so on. The most likely place to put this campaign would be Nochet or some other big, cosmopolitan Kethaelan city, but I could also see placing it in Pavis, where Mastakos and Varnaval are big with the Sartarite settlers and Saren with the Sun Domers, and both have to deal with the nomads likely wanting to butt in and wreck all this vile horse-and-cart nonsense (unless both sides had the foresight and resources to use zebras or other herd beasts), though you might also see morokanth arguing that they should be allowed to compete with chariots pulled by herd men.

1. The Lunar forces in Elkoi are experiencing pushback from the native Balazarings, and local clans aligned to them are either not enough or the sudden uptick in demand for their services has made them greedy and demanding (alternatively, the Lunars just want to soften up the Balazarings who aren't already aligned with them). Whatever the reason, local forces aren't cutting it and the empire isn't willing to send conventional reinforcements, so the strategy now is to recruit skilled hunters, scouts, raiders, etc. from across the empire (probably a lot from Saird) and assemble them into squads of irregulars to go out and fight these barbarians (and possibly also trolls and such) on their own terms as bushwhackers and guerillas. 2. For various political and magical reasons, the Grazers, Sun Domers, and Runegate Elmali have organized a massive tournament with numerous events both mundane and magical, competing for fabulous prizes, eternal glory, and to prove once and for all whose god's light shines brightest and truest, with unexpected Lunar interference as they either attempt to covertly spark a war or else to insert themselves into it and force all three to submit to the supremacy of Imperial Yelm and his Fortunate Successor. Players might all be on one side (either directly as competitors or providing outside assistance both official and covert) or even be competitors on multiple sides, perhaps driven to work together by circumstance and forging a new understanding out of it if they succeed.

Yeah, I noted right below the part you quote that it could well be a case of Plentonius identifying Foundchild and Votank as Durbaddath and Ergesh, and then just suggested some ideas if someone wanted it anyway.

I've recently been thinking about and writing ideas and notes for a possible Balazar campaign (that will almost certainly go nowhere), and I decided I might at least share some of my own interpretations on the possible roles, powers, etc. of the various deities and spirits involved. I'll note that my interest and familiarity lies more in HeroQuest than RuneQuest, so I'm not really going to be going into specifics on crunch. Balazar As written, Balazar is stated to "sometimes" be treated as a sub-cult of Yelmalio, but for my own purposes I tend to think of him more as primarily the sub-cult, where he'd be sort of like a Yelmalian version of the sub-cult of Orlanth Rex (possibly complete with Mastery Rune, or else maybe keyed off the Truth Rune): His role and magic are defined mostly in terms of leading a clan or tribe, and full membership is restricted to chieftains and kings. Otherwise, he's a bit like Sartar; there's local holidays and ceremonies where everyone worships him, but you don't get any spells out of it or anything. Brother Dog I'd actually considered making Brother Dog the main spirit tradition among the Balazarings, given his sheer ubiquity and the deep connection between Balazarings and their dogs, or maybe even making him more of a liminal god/spirit figure modeled after Odayla. Also, I'd probably move Brother Dog's "brotherly" relationship from Foundchild to Votank, but that's just personal preference. Durbaddath In The Glorious Re-Ascent of Yelm it's claimed that Durbaddath is the father of Votank, whom Plentonius misidentified as Ergesh, and that Durbaddath has worshipers in Balazar; in Griffin Mountain it is instead claimed that Votank is the son of Foundchild, and there's no mention anywhere of Durbaddath or even of lions. My way of reconciling that would be to note that Durbaddath seems to have at least some aspects of a hunting god in Dara Happa (given that one of his titles is “Hunter in the Celestial Forest”), so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch IMO to suppose the Dara Happans just think of Foundchild and Votank as local names for the gods they know as Durbaddath and Ergesh. Were I to give him worshipers in Balazar as his own god, though, I imagine the Balazarings would focus on him as a great champion and fighter against the slave-taking imperials and deny the notion that he gave up his son as a slave and became a loyal servant, perhaps telling a story where he gives up his human head for a lion's to give him the strength to fight the emperor or something. And in the citadels maybe as something more akin to a god like Humakt, a fearsome death-dealing champion and full-time warrior? Firshala Obviously this one is even more “My Glorantha Varies” than any other, but, inspired by the discussions on whether the Balazarings practice what's known as fire-stick farming/cultural burning, and also the supposition that perhaps it was Firshala who burned down the old elf forest and the statement in the book that she has “no love” for the cult of Aldrya (though that doesn't quite work with the timeline; Firshala was imprisoned during the Gods War, while the forests were burned within Time), I would posit that it's Firshala who would have been the goddess/spirit (she's called both even though she has the Spirit Rune) who would have given the Votanki that power, and that perhaps the Aldryami imprisoned her preemptively to make sure that never happened, only for their forest to get burned up by some unrelated party entirely later on. Which may be the source of some tension regarding Rigtaina... I suppose that would also be enough to give her an association with the Life/Fertility Rune as well as her two stated ones. Sort of like a much nicer and more constructive Oakfed. Foundchild I feel like Foundchild would deserve some extra features as worshiped by the Balazarings to account for the fact that he isn't just their hunter god, but a Waha-like figure as the primary man's god who defined how the vast majority of men live and survive. On the other hand, maybe it's fine as-is and you'd just need maybe a few tweaks to his associated cults, since none of the ones RuneQuest gives him (Odayla, Waha, Yinkin) are likely to be present or as friendly (what with the dogs) up in Balazar. Hearthmother Now, the general consensus here has seemed to be either that Hearthmother is a Mahome-like figure or else is more or less a local version of the Earth Witch tradition in the vein of Serdrodosa. Personally, I would say she's not as limited as the former and doesn't have as strong an association with Earth as the latter (heck, she lacks the Earth Rune entirely according to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure). She's associated with foraging for nourishment, tending the hearth, taking care of the sick and the young, giving hope to the community in hard times, etc., but there's no really strong elemental associations other than the “hearth” aspect. Sort of like Dendara, she's defined largely by the crafts and duties of a woman in the society that worships her, rather than by deeper mysteries or powers as a conduit for the Great Earth Goddess when she's otherwise asleep in the vein of Serdrodosa. Sort of like if you had Ernalda but with even more emphasis on her nature as the “spiritual earth” to the near-exclusion of powers related to physical Earth that don't extend past, say, knowing where to find the best berries and herbs and such. In HeroQuest terms, I'd also make both Foundchild and Hearthmother much like Waha and Eiritha in that they are typically worshiped through a spirit tradition, but can be approached theistically, too. In fact that would probably be the general trend for Balazaring outside of the citadels, with only the tribal centers seeing a lot of purely theistic worship. Mralota Basically just a much more limited form of Eiritha who can only deal with pigs. Rigtaina Essentially a local version of the Lady of the Wild who is also the local sovereignty goddess in the vein of Sorana Tor/Kero Fin. So, not really likely to be worshiped in her own right, but hey, Kero Fin apparently has about 250 initiates/devotees according to Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, so the option might be there anyway. Were it to come up, I'd probably name her as the daughter of Foundchild by Aldrya. This would almost certainly not be common knowledge among the Balazarings, and in fact they might end up having a schism over it kind of like the Cenala controversy in Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind. Votank I'd make him more or less synonymous with the ancestor cult of Daka Fal, with all the powers and such that entails, though of course he's also got strong associations with Foundchild, Hearthmother, and Brother Dog. As stated before, I'd probably move the association of Brother Dog to Votank rather than Foundchild, but that's just a personal thing; I like the idea that each of Votank's 25 sons left home with a litter of Brother Dog's own progeny as his own companions. Yelmalio No real changes needing to be made here. Though spare a thought for any poor initiate who gets the geas to only ever love Earth cultists if you, like me, decide Hearthmother doesn't cut it. Heck, maybe that's why Balazar married Rigtaina; she was the only real Earth cultist within a hundred miles who wasn't made of wood!

My interest is definitely piqued.

Reviving this due to a random thought I had thanks to the "Trolls Don't Cry" thread: Could it be convincingly argued that Crushing Noise is actually a name for Hedkoranth? Hedkoranth is the Thunder Slinger, whose casts of Great Weighty are both very noisy and very crushing (and he's also described as a loud, boastful figure). He is described as the Thunderbolt of Orlanth made manifest in a stone but also as the son of Orlanth by a woman named Arvena, of whom nothing but that name is known, and so could easily just be another name for the Dark Lady i.e. Kyger Litor. The sling (and just straight-up throwing rocks) is a weapon often associated with trolls, and he's stated to have defeated a Darkness champion called Opanbobos (Vaneekara? One of her children/followers?) to obtain the power of the sling. Was that a normal battle, or was it him proving himself to his kin? If you want to find a way to provide a way "in" for Darkness people to gain the powers of Storm, you could certainly do worse than Hedkoranth. Your average troll warrior might not even have to change how he fights all that much, and he's got the mythic "oomph" that it wouldn't be hard to make him suitably impressive to convince at least a few that this "new" son of Kyger Litor might be one worth allowing in.