Sir_Godspeed

All right, let's chill out now, this isn't leading to anything constructive.

Well, then I was right all along! Gosh darn diddly dingedingdong! Well, I suppose it's primarily the Wind, but otherwise I getcha.

Very understandable!

Sounds intriguing, do they know what this thing is? Google didn't yield any immediate results beyond your own pages.

So... Cold, Storm, and Motion? We can basically rule out Water, since if Inora doesn't need water to literally be solid water hunkering down on a big ol' mountaintop, snowstorms won't need water either, imho - even though that doesn't make a whole lot of RW sense. It apparently makes sense in Glorantha.

Attempts at encapsulating all of humanity often does.

Wouldn't Cold and Storm make sense?

No idea. I couldn't find anything about him in Revealed Mythologies either. Oh, sorry! Yeah, no idea there either. 😕

He sounds like a Fonritan Ygg, or rough equivalent thereof. Will probably provide similar spells. A Corsair is a raider, pirate or privateer, so probably not worshipped by your standard fisherman or merchant captain.

I did! But in the other thread over on Glorantha.

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

That's my impression too. I believe there are specific mentions in the Guide of regions of Loskalm known for their bull ancestry or good cattle, so there's something to go off. The only minor niggle I'd say is that I think it's not entirely certain that the Tawari/Bull People were wholly "Hsunchen" in the way we think of them by the Third Age. This is something that's been discussed back and forth here a good bit, but my impression is that they were *both* animistic Bull Totem people *and* theistic Bull/Storm Folk. Descendants of groups where the line between Hsunchen and Storm Barbarians was a lot less defined than in Kerofinela. (Their shared Storm theism also might explain why they converted so easily to Orlanthism). The reason for that is partly because the more easterly neighbors of the "Bull Belt" introduced theistic entities like Tawar and Bisos into Pelandan myths, and also that we find a similar animist-theistic mix with the Praxians, who are essentially "expanded" Bull People, as it were. Of course, it's possible that the theistic elements are innovations by these extremities while meeting with theistic groups, or that the Fronelan Tawari themselves innovated themselves to become purely animist, but this is a bit too finnicky for a book about armies and weapons. My main point is just to be a bit careful to over-generalize on the description of Dawn Age pre-Western Fronelan Bull People. On another note, the image guidelines for the artwork cited above also mentions explicitly that they are "mixed animist and theistic", although whether those "barbarians" actually are the bull people we're talking about is anyone's guess. Sorry if this is all irrelevant to your endeavor. I'm very much looking forward to how you end up envisioning the West, the sketches of Central Genertela were a joy to see.

I'm reminded of a text on ethnic boundaries between the Fur people (sedentary horticulturalists) and Baggara (semi-nomadic cattle herders) in South Sudan. Without going into too much detail, the text details how the two groups stay pretty stable despite there being quite a lot of mixing between the two. This is because the two different modes of living are considered somewhat synonymous with the ethnic groups themselves. Cases of a Fur farmer's son buying a group of a cattle and setting off and essentially becoming a Baggara, or a Baggara marrying into a Fur family and becoming a Fur are quite common and (mostly) unproblematic. The group-divide remains, however, and the two groups do not start conflating on a categorica level, ie. they remain separate as collective groups despite the relatively free demographic flow between them. I imagine that the Pelaskites might have something similar going in in the Choralinthor. To be a Pelaskite is not necessarily about ancient lineages or what have you. If you initiate to Pelaskos, buy into a fisher crew, start farming seaweed/saltwort, marry a Pelaskite, or what have you, you become a Pelaskite. If you give it up and marry the nice lady/lad from the upland Heortling clan and start ranching cattle, you cease being one. Just a suggestion, but one I think is reasonably plausible.

If we work from the assumption that it was a particular tribe or tribal confederation of Tawari Bull People that were defeated/conquered/displaced by the Westerners, and whose name stuck to the surrounding landscape, then I don't think there's a lot there that threatens established canon. Seems pretty straightforward. They don't have to be the sole Bull People group displaced/assimilated either, just the one that happened to have their name stick. A further tentative assumption might be that they allied the whole Serpent shamans or what they are called in Fronela (I mix them up with their Ralian counterpart), and may or may not be the folks depicted on the Loskalmi frieze: (From Well of Daliath, also in the Guide, iirc.)

You're right, I was kinda stuck in the Pelorian context, so beyond that there is evidence.

I know, but I was discussing with Joerg. Anyway, we agree, so there's no point in going on.

I was thinking of that, but my previous attempt to link Xentha/Netta to Yelm to make him the father of Argan Argar proved fanciful, and I can't see any other explicit reference of them mating either. But yeah, Tolat/Shargash was definitely around before Yelm died. Not only as a war-god, but in his other roles as well (as Alkoth's founder, as a possible slash-and-burn deity, etc.). SOMETHING gave Tolat/Shargash his dark side, and I doubt it was (orthodox) Dendara, imho.

Stay safe, Ali!

Didn't some of the old-timers draw it from the really archaic western sources, like the Arkatsaga or something?

Since Belintar instituted the Sixth long after the Dragonkill, I don't see how any of this contradicts that the Storm Sixth might commonly or officially be called Heortland. I mean, Sweden takes its name from only one of the petty kingdoms of pre-consolidation of the modern state, but that's not really relevant to when the EU admitted the country as "the kingdom of Sweden" in modern times. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but my point is that the Storm Sixth is almost universally referred to as Heortland in all third age published material, and it seems likely that this is true in-universe as well. Whether the name has a metonymic etymology is neither here nor there. At least we know it's not Hendrikiland.

It was always my impression that they were fairly literal names (Esrolia, Heortland, etc.), but maybe the Sixths have some new, administrative-ritual names that are actually the names of these new goddesses. I'm guessing Ketha is thoroughly supplanted by either Esrola or Ernalda post-Dawn Age, and relegated to a grain goddess or a byname for Esrola or Ernalda, so isn't relevant anymore.

Jesuits are also quite (in)famous for tying Catholicism to local traditions that were shamanic in nature, both in the Americas as well as parts of Asia. I haven't read up on Africa, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it there too (though much of that continent was proselytized by other movements). Anyway, this might not be entirely on-topic so I'll leave it at that.

I have to admit I thought that Xentha was a Darkness deity that preceded Yelm's death, but my memories have been shown to be erroneous before, so I guess I'm off. That being said, there is that whole business with nights in the Green Age, before the enthronement of Yelm/usurpation of the White Goddess and the Golden Age proper. Maybe Yelm and Xentha could have mixed back then.

Nice! More to read up on! 🤓 Looking forward to it digging in your thoughts.

It's interesting that you've stuck with the phased-out Sultan instead of updating to the now-common Satrap (at least that's my impression of how things've gone), is there any particular reason for this? Personal prefence, legacy nomenclature, etc.? I'm just curious.