JRE

I still believe dogs are the wrong animal for herding Praxian beasts. They will end up kicked, trampled, gored or just left behind. So they are useful as guardians and alarm systems, but not herding. Probably the morokanth are the only ones that would benefit from dogs for herding. Dogs will be with the non-herding contingent of the clan, the ones that walk. They probably are useful also to keep slaves under control. If your Glorantha goes that way, maybe also bloodsports like bull baiting (and for that to work the bull has to be thethered, or the dogs have no change).

I had to look her up. A Kralorean version of Chalana Arroy, probably a God Lerner remnant. I took the flower to mean healing herbs, which was why I went to the better known Arroin, though I see how it would be better to have goddesses in the picture. I am sure there are so called sons of Issaries (and a few daughters) all over Glorantha, as a remnant of the pan Issaries Middle Sea Empires trade network, even if they are not developed in publications. More locally specific than Issaries, and better linked with the local cults, specially if they are not orlanthi. What happens with Harst or Garzeen, but specific to the culture, rather than the Vingkotlings. So I am sure the Issaries cult has no problem with Etyries, and they will be welcomed in Issaries temples (except when no lunar will be welcomed, such as wartime Sartar) and allowed to worship. Etyries traders will also be used to using Issaries temples so they will surely downplay the Empire connection and play up the Issaries daughter link. Eventually it may work actually as a subcult of Issaries, if trade between the Empire and the Holy country keep up. I suspect Argrath may even encourage it in later years, by coopting Etyries when Sartar pushes north.

I fully agree, but we also see huge iron usage, such as the the iron forts in Kralorela, 70 ft tall iron statues left behind by dwarves in Pamaltela (even if hollow and only 1 inch thick, that is close to 150 tons) , or supposedly three miles long iron bolts... And they make no effort that we know of to recover it, so that means they have more than enough. Maybe it is what happens when you totally "kill" Stone material. That would mean you cannot make constructs as you can do from rock, stone and even other metals, as they are not fully dead. Iron's magic effect comes from its death, as well as its link with the death rune. Many parts of the world machine died with Stone, and all that iron is just recycling, as the pieces of the world Machine need to be "alive" to work properly. And that is why Iron only appears after Stone is dead. That would explain why it is not so valuable for dwarves. That would mean it is mostly quicksilvers and silvers, though the break up will require all castes. And it makes iron fully different from the earth metal.

It feels right than in Esrolia they use Deezola as the reference for the Red Goddess, if your main contact are Seven Mother missionnaries. All the other Mothers feel either alien (Jakaleel, Danfive Xaron, She who waits) or more of what they already know (Yanafal Tarnils, Irripi Ontor, Teelo Norri). Deezola seems the one that a matriarch can relate to. Even if she covers her breasts, ashamed of her motherhood. I am not sure the fiigure is a light god. Seems a male version of the goddess in the prow of the boat, which I assume is Chalana Arroy, so it could be Arroin. Crybaby healers. It would be a nice Gloranthan pub quiz, and a lovely illustration.

Illumination is a great justification for scenario design. I want a murdering Chalana Arroy priestess... Illumination! I want someone with Humakti and Uleria magic... Illumination! And the overused favorite, I want an undetected chaos cultist in the clan ring, Pavis sisterhood, high temple hierarchy... Most illuminates, IMG, are people who know they are free from a set of limitations, but that still want to do good, as they see good, which is why the path to Illumination, and what is considered good, is important, even if the end result is mechanically similar, because the resulting human being will be different. Most heroes that wrought change in Glorantha are illuminates, mainly because envisioning significant changes, against the stasis of the godtime, is helped by it. Most of the players in my Glorantha end up illuminated or dead, because that is what I want to explore, change and evolution, mainly personal but in a few cases culture and society. Orlanthi with their emphasis in movement and finding another way have some limited ability to change, which helps making them one of the most sympathetic cultures. But even then Illumination helps a lot. As I said, I like Belvani, and I am hopeful he can bring positive change to the Sun County. And no chaos closer than his spear head.

As I said above, not all animals can be herded by dogs. Mongols, which probably can be considered the inspiration for Pentians and many Praxian traits, only kept guard dogs (search Bankhar dogs). By the way, that is quite different from a coydog. I am not sure coydogs will be effective guardians. Alarm system yes, however. As for retroactive myth, I would blame the God Learners, and the inherent conservatism of the Godtime. If you innovate something that was not that way in the Godtime, it may work while you are around and people see it is a good thing. But soon the religious structure will indicate that is not how we do things, and change back. The GLs found out that if you did some fine tuning of the myth, the changes would stick, as now the religious authorities will support, or at least allow that change. Arkat did it first, but he and his followers kept the changes subtle. The GLs did it openly and excessively, and that remains in most cultures they touch, even those that more noisily reject change. So yes, while the right way of acting is reinforced by reference to the Godtime, any major significant change will require myth manipulation. Or moving away, pick and mix your own myths and change your culture, like people like the Grazelanders or the Pol Joni do. That is indeed one of the big charms of the Lunars, breaking away from the circle of hopeless oppression by the past.

I suppose the problem is all those combat oriented characters, that in my experience are 20-50% of the players, whose survival chance improves enormously with iron availability. I suppose that the dwarves in the Iron War (the name says it all) against the Machine City made sure the iron ended in the right hands after Zistor was destroyed. Any remains were probably taken away in the century before the Closing. If I were playing with plentiful iron I would probably have unenchanted iron rust easily, while enchanted iron is quite resistant to rust. I would also have dwarven steel that works as enchanted iron without being enchanted but also does not rust, if kept properly, as well as being a magic dampener. Most iron in Brithini hands would be of this type as well. I am divided whether iron is manufactured (quicksilver dwaves) or mined (rock dwaves), before the iron dwarves get to work it. Humans have gotten the iron crafting secrets of the iron dwarves, but are still missing the iron making secret, as those dwarves are less accesible.

Illumination frees you from external value systems, but you still have your own. Indeed most illumination schools try to get you to develop your own system (ideally based on their own preferences) to avoid the amoral opportunists that create such a bad image of illumination. Someting like enlightened atheists. You still have your morals and ethics, but they do not depend on what an old book and a priest says, even if they are based on your own life experiences. Belvani clearly sees value in the Yelmalian values, and considers he can do a better job in steering the County. As a Yelmalian in Prax, he surely despises the nomads and Chaos for their destructiveness, though he can more easily understand their motives than your typical Light Son. I would say his values will be Yelmalian, but with more flexibility and some quirks, such as the draconic interest (probably inherent in the Sun County past, considering the links to the EFW). I believe he will be a good Count, making the Sun Dome less misogynistic and isolated, and working to recover the old draconic traditions. He is bound up in Argrath's cause, so he may reappear in Sartar, brought in to try to "modernize" Sartar's Sun Dome.

What animals can be herded with dogs? Normally they are ones that can be predated by wolves, so small and not very fast (which precludes all Praxian beasts). That is different from guard, where dogs can be useful with all kinds. Sheep are probably plentiful in all temperate regions. Dragon Pass Orlanthi use alynxes, but it is possible that as you get further away from Kerofin, alynxes are replaced by dogs among the orlanthi. Fronela surely needs sheep, if only for warm clothing, so I would expect sheep and dogs. Seshnela is probably too warm, but Ralios could be. GtG has wool exported from Dragon Pass, Fronela, Ralios and Umathela, which fits. Wool is imported into the Holy Country, the Lunar Empire, Seshnela and Fonrit. That does not mean they do not produce wool, just that they do not produce enough, so I would consider dogs also there. Shepherd dogs and urban cultures bring up attack dogs, lapdogs and other weird breeds.

As this is the Glorantha forum, rather than the Runequest one, I would prefer a deeper discussion than "it depends on the GM". I never had much iron in my games, because it never was rune level oriented, more skeptical adventurers than true believers or parts of a strong community. Now, as I catch up, I am struck with the excellent vignettes in Guide to Glorantha. There, apart from the dwarves, there is a decorative iron pectoral in a Pithdaros and Meliatan's Singing sword, inherited from Prince Snodal. All others, kings, nobles and heroes, wear items of bronze rather than iron when mentioned. Other iron mentioned is the iron armor of Kustria's Tournament king and Ironbreaker, the sword of the Bilini king, Hahlgrim Ironsword nickname may be from his ancestor, Tarandor Ironsword, though he also had for a time ironbreaker. Retter the Stalker sword, Trollbiter, is supposed to be still in his tomb. Aruzban ironarm (Delela) has iron arms, probably a dwarf gift, and could mean armor rather than a cyberlimb. That is all in Western or western linked lands. That would indicate that even powerful people do not have so much iron. To complicate the picture there are also cases of excessive, such as Kralorela Iron forts or the iron city in Magasta's pool, or even Mularik Ironeye iron clad company, that joins Harrek first and afterwards Argrath. The excesses of the iron fort and the iron city point out that dwarves do not value iron too much, and that is confirmed because they do not actively recover it, as they do with other materials. Maybe they trust in their safety mechanism, rust, and it is indeed cheap. Although it is not a cool alternative, that it is abundant and relatively easy to make would make it come from an unknown and undervalued plentiful ore, just like in earth, rather than an alchemical metal, as dwarves make huge constructs from iron that probably could not be made from other metals. Probably it is the antimagic effect (and the associated POW expense) which blocks most uses, except for immortal dwarves and brithini that can work with high penalties to magic skills. Maybe it is part of the World Machine repairs, iron everywhere so only Mostali magic works... No conclusion, just pointing out how it appears in what I suppose we agree is the current primary reference.

The white bear god is bound to a certain Harrek, so it is unlikely the Rathori can rebuild the White bear empire. Hard to build a force when you sleep the dark season. and probably part of the storm season as well. Other animal people alliances, faced with snow trolls, the kingdom of War and Loskalm, seem likely. Jonatela they are used to, so less of a problem. The comments about Uncoling magical power, expressed in opposition to Loskalm's, are to me like Chekhov's gun. It needs to be used before the story ends.

The main advantage of the human form is hands, that in Glorantha means magic in addition to tools. What would be the death ratio for a hunter gatherer people if pregnancy has no risk for mother and child, most wounds are trivial to recover and disease is not a problem. You can kill a bear or other predator before it gets close to the herd, and with almost no risk to yourself. Carrying capacity of land changes a lot, and band sizes as well. And that benefits also the reindeers in normal reindeer form. Magic means that no part of Glorantha really resembles our earth in ancient times. It may well resemble hollywood or TV ancient times, so it is not so bad for playing into it. Brian has explained better why we think Uncolings are different from other hsunchen, and that may also explain why they are specified as the strongest in magic. I picked the do not eat reindeer choice, which required a solution using magic. It would be quite easy as well to justify the other choice that taking human shape is very energy consuming, so some reindeers give their lives so the Uncolings can remain in human form longer, and get more skilled and more useful to the herd. My personal approach to Glorantha is to assume that people seldom lie about themselves in the material we have. Adding unreliable narrators complicates everything, except when it is clear, as in King of Sartar.

I understand your frustration as it is typical of non-core Glorantha world-building. We get only a few snippets of information, and from that starting point people will develop quite different worlds. Sometimes one becomes official, others one becomes popular, but not official, and often there are several contardictory versions floating around. However we should not extrapolate too much from the Real world. God learners (our supposedlu objective exterrnal observers in Glorantha) would say that yes, the Uncolings are humans in the hsunchen tradition. But the uncolings will say, and believe that they are reindeer that can take human form. As the human form has many advantages, they spend most of the time in that form. But they are reindeers. That creates a first critical dichotomy. Either they are cannibals, or they do not eat reindeers. That would be impossible in Earth, but in Glorantha it is perfectly possible Uncolings can survive on moss, lichens, tree bark and other foodstuffs not suitable for humans. That is why they can thrive where nobody else can, as other humans do in other parts of Glorantha. The uncolings will be very different depending on your choice, and that is a choice, in absence of an official write up, you have to make. It does not preclude tools, leather etc, as I am pretty sure reindeer will die all the time, and it will not be a taboo to make use of the remains. I prefer the reindeer solution, that as long as an uncoling really believes she is a reindeer, and takes part in the right rituals, she can survive on tree bark, snow and a handful insects. Because that breaks expectation and magnifies that this is not earth. If trolls can survive for centuries eating ice and gravel, I have no problem with magically assisted humans living in relatively high densities in a tundra.

Indeed, the impact of iron is quite different in Hero Quest than in RQ. I still do not see as typical a Yinkin initiate with a king's ransom in iron, at least in RQ:G. Not having read The Coming Storm, I will not comment, but RQ:G says: Iron weapons and armor are rare, prized, and extremely valuable, often possessed by only the wealthy or by fortunate adventurers. They are rarely available for sale, and instead are found, won, made to order, or gifted.

Thinking of RW non-metal armors, even though it might be a slight derail, Sarmatians and Scythians used a horn scale armor, made by slicing horse hooves to make the scales, and then sewing them on a leather garment with sinew. It feels a very appropiate armor for Grazelanders. Although it would also be appropiate for humakti with non-metal armor geases, I would expect it is a rider armor, so culturally inappropiate for the Hiia Swordsmen. In practical terms it would be similar to the light scale in the rulebook. Turtleshell can be molded by skilled artisans, by controlled heating and cooling, like most keratin based materials. That means you can manufacture the same objects as horn.

I would not expect the Dwarf of Dwarf Run to provide much iron. Isidilian is supposed to be Quicksilver, and even his military help, the Cannon cult uses brass cannons with bound stone projectiles, if I remember right. There will be a few iron dwarfs at Dwarf Run, but I do not expect enough production to supply Dragon Pass. That means inherited items, captured items, Greatway (through Balazar) or western trade from the Holy Country are the main iron supply source for Dragon Pass. The Lunars have a better trading network with the west, as well as trade with the Jord dwarves. GtG says that the Iron Mountains in Old Seshnela have suppled more than half of the iron available in the surface. So capture from better equipped Lunars is a good option, though one with evident disadvantages. For new rune levels I would make them sweat in Dragon Pass, unless they are replacing a lost Rune level and can recover their equipment. If there are already several rune levels in the temple, you may be lucky to get greaves or a single vambrace, and they may expect you to bring your own iron scimitar to reforge as a sword. Things would be easier in the Holy Country, or for Lunars. Plenty of adventure hooks, from trading with dwarves to trips to Nochet, with the old favorite looking for a Yanafal Tarnils Scimitar...

IMG outside specific cults and some secret societies, acceptance is quite rare. That is what usually reveals arkati and other illuminated cabals, that people who normally would not speak to each other work together. Tolerance is a big difference compared to the typical xenophobia, chauvinism and religious intolerance. And it is one of the keys to Lunar success. I would say Argrath also turns Sartar into a similar tolerant entity to fight the Empire, but using draconic influences rather than chaotic, something else that would be a no-no for a traditional orlanthi, at least following by typical reactions in the Third Age for the EWF.

Rather than actual intelectual tolerance, which I think is relatively common in Peloria/the Heartlands, but not anywhere else, it is that the power structure of the Lunar Empire is based on a bunch of weirdoes, so in the Empire any weirdo might be an important imperial agent and respect has become the default response to weirdness. Unless it is clear it is a poor corrupted stickpicker, when people will default to scapegoat treatment.

It would feel right if they were Horali when they joined Talor's crusada, but did not return as such, forcing the Zzaburi to make do with mercenaries in the Second Age.

Well said. Typical people do not have access to a rulebook, so I doubt they will say: Extra arm? Chaotic! Specially if we reflect on how many deities are known in Peloria, and a good number of them surely sport extra limbs. Specially Lunar ones... As I say, they do not have the knee-jerk reaction to the idea of Chaos, unlike our better known orlanthi. In Aggar you will be grilled about how did you get that, and possibly burnt if they believe you are an agent of chaos, unless a powerful, well connected Lunar. But in most of Peloria people will want to know how you got it, what you can do with it, and outside Dara Happa, does it help with sex? We have people with all types of skin color, eye color, hair color. I am sure some devoted people have hair of flames, at least part of the time, death devotees that wither the grass they step on, priestesses that spontaneously burst into song and are always surrounded by singing birds and butterflies, swamp devotees always covered in foul smelling slime (in public), or veiled women that can kill you if you get a glimpse of their face. It would take an exceptional chaos feature to be noticeable among all of that. Maybe I have taken the red pill, but if I had to use one word for typical reaction to unusual body types and appeareance in Peloria (but not in Aggar, Brolia, Carmania, Dara Happa cities, Talastar...) is Tolerance. Saird and Tarsh are trying, but they will probably consider anything weird they cannot identify as Lunar, and be respectful as a default reaction, just in case.

To me it is clear that this is virgin territory, and the best story will probably win, if it is good enough, by being included in any official grazelander write up. How I would do it, loaning from the good ideas above. Hiia came from the Holy Country, and was familiar with turtle shell as a material. He had a Humakti geas of not using metal armor, at least in his chest, so turtle shell was a good alternative to leather, and probably more striking as well. When his wanderings took him to the Grazelands, and he decided to teach swordplay to the Vendref, metal was very scarce, so he made do with what was available, and to his surprise there were large turtles in the waterway, that probably were hunted as a communal activity, so lots of turtle shell. I would not say they protect turtles, as you may have to kill quite a few every year, and surely they are dangerous to life and specially limb. But probably some ritual hunt and "correct" way to hunt them to make sure the shell is not damaged, as well as some tests and trials based on facing turtles on your own. I would not expect Humakti to be really concerned about befriending or taming turtles, more on how to kill them and how to make useable equipment from them. It has to be a large turtle for a breastplate. Shields will probably be more common, at least till trade with Tarsh and Sartar have brought metal and plentiful leather goods. Mechanically a turtleshell cuirass is superior to most other chest armor alternatives. Cheap, with no penalties, and protects like ringmail. So I would probably make it available in a few places only. And now I know at least one of the Grazeland towns will have turtleshell artisans, and other turtleshell items, from combs to cups.

Peloria does not have, IMO, uroxi moving around sensing chaos, so in many cases it will not be evident if that third arm is a chaos feature, or some hard earned reward in a hero quest, or that slime some gift of a little known swamp god from the other side of the empire. In villages people will be curious and grill you on it, while in cities people will be fascinated but try to seem jaded or well educated. If you appear rich or powerful, people will just assume it is some exotic magic, specially if you are a member of the red party (clothes tattoos, entourage). If you look poor or sleazy, it will be considered some involuntary curse or family defect, and you will be shunned or exploited. For the above mentioned broos, people in the neighborhood will still hide female family members when they are around, but they will be encouraged to leave peacefully, rather than being pursued with torches and pitchforks. What will shock many orlanthi is that people really do not care if that is chaotic or not, but what it does, and if it can help me or mine. Reaction to a Dorastor gray one will be similar to what they would do if a Shargashi berserker were around, leave a wide berth and watch with curiosity to see if they do anything strange and I can gossip about it with the mates in the bar/temple later.

First response, without reflection. Most vegetable matter is difficult to digest or metabolize. Different Aldryami will have different requirements, probably related to the degree of leaf cover. However I would say elves (human looking with limited leaves, down to non-existent, will need energy supplements. So they can eat all vegetable matter, but they will focus on energy intense vegetables, so fruits, roots, tubers... I am sure there are plants that produce growth that is specially suited to the elfs needs. It is likely they are also well liked by humans. Runners and other associated species will be self-sufficient with sunlight, except if they do a lot of activity, when they will need to supplement with food. As they say above, eating another aldryami would be mainly to make a point, and probably means you are an outcast, not for nourishment. I would expect corpses of rival Aldryami will go into the compost pile.

I would say that elves were an ideal for Tolkien, while they are ambulatory plants in Glorantha. I particularly like to think the elves men meet are bred/groomed to be attractive to humans, in order to make peaceful interactions possible. It includes simulated mammal genitalia in some but not all cases, which also brings up half-elves, and other cans of worms. Get enough Fertility magic and virtually anything is possible. So the human-like elves are a minor fraction of aldryami, but a disproportionate part of the aldryami met by humans. As I said above, most humans meeting aldryami are not aware of it, and will most likely think of the spirits of trees, tree branches animated by magic or strange plant hybrids. Nothing to do with the green hued but attractive tree-wives and guardians they meet at the ritual enactement of the setting of the borders with the forest people. Or the dryads they met once in a fertility festivalwhose memory still brings a smile to their lips. In the seventies fantasy was already a set of redigested parts of LOTR, but Greg Stafford set up the Elder races as a reaction to the fantasy elves, dwarfs and trolls, and with the trolls as the only real playable race. That is why I prefer to use the terms, as an acknowledgement of how modern that position actually was.

I mostly agree with Joerg, as Player characters and leaders have a different perspective than someone that has never travelled outside their own tribal lands, and seldom out of their clan. However IMG spirits manifest bodies frequently, and most people are not si rude to hit them to see how physical they are. So I believe that spirits are used to all those things that seem unusual, or very different from your experience, as anything extreme or exaggerated (big head flying with their ears? Half a man hopping around? Women that come out of trees or seem to appear out of nowhere? Pieces of trees that move around? That same freedom in appearance of spirits means that the first idea when a sartarite sees a maidstone archer is that it is some weird spirit. Experience will show otherwise, but most people will just keep their distance, if it is not hostile, and wait for leaders or specialists (PCs) to determine what it is and what are its intentions. As nobody in Glorantha has read the Lord of the Rings, I have no problem using elves for human looking aldryami (and that may apply to some dryads as well). Trolls are dark men, and they come in many sizes, with the rule of thumb that the bigger, more dangerous. A shaman will know better, but for a typical orlanthi hunter, runners may well be the typical example of forest spirits, pieces of trees appearing and disappearing. watching, making weird noises to frighten prey at the wrong moment, and seeming to be everywhere. And they know that it is better not to attack them, no matter how obnoxious.