JRE

I do not wish to monopolize the thread, but Gloranthan dwarves are one of my favorite speculation points. We know of armies of iron mostali and iron dwarves lost both before and after Dawn. Their equipment, and possibly in the case of mostali their own bodies represent a sizeable booty. I would expect elves and trolls to just bury it, so IMG there will be iron "mines" in the sites of ancient battles. If the iron is rusted, it will be unusable for humans. I would propose one of the secrets the Third Eye Blue stole is how to restore iron from rust. I wrote iron oxide, but that is not right in Glorantha. It is iron's weakness to water and air runes what causes this. That would be offensive enough to dwarves, but the fact that it means they are robbing dead dwarves and mostali what makes their offence so unforgivable. That also would allow iron to be available without involving dwarves. If you find a rusted item of iron you can take it to your friendly dwarf (only an option in a few selected places, and the reaction will depend on what it is and its provenance) or TEB smith and you can get fresh iron, or repair the rusted object. Iron was made against Darkness and Earth, and involves Fire in its making. Moon was already dead at this point. So that is why it is weak against Water and Air.

You will have both. Powerful magic can create a spring so you can have water for your city, but it is still easier to choose a ford in a river, so you have both trade and protection, besides water. Even Pavis picked the emplacement of ruined Robcradle, because it probably was the best in the river. The real challenge is to make it last, with the tendency for global catastrophes.

Who can be sure of how many limbs they have? Usually 10, 6 legs and 2 pairs of wings, though many have atrophied some of them, so counts vary.

Related to this, I play that all cults with access to Divination will cast it (usually just one point, unless there are suspicions or reasons to expect greatness) before initiation to ask if the candidate will be a good initiate. An answer "I do not know her" may be good for a River God, or even a City God, as it assumes the candidate is not an enemy, till now, but it would be insufficient for an earth cult, as that means you are a stranger, or Issaries, which means no trade contacts. That would require a smart ogre choosing Gods without divination, or with small areas of knowledge and open to almost anyone, as the mentioned River or City gods. Or remaining as a Lay member, which is probably the best choice. Storm Bulls are present in only a few areas of Glorantha, so Sense Chaos is not such a big threat to a Pelorian or Ralian Ogre.

The reference in GtG is: A quick search in the bestiary brings Rusting as one of the effects from Curse spirits, but considering other uses in the Red book of Magic, it may well refer to a fungal infection, and powerful voughs having "rust-proof iron claws" rather than aluminum, in the Bestiary. Nothing conclusive. Non-canon Martin Helsdon discusses briefly rusting iron and probably influenced my own thinking in both The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass and Men of the West: Warfare in Glorantha.

Replying to David Cake on Humakt vs. Yelmalio, two short replies to avoid derailing the thread. I would not use Runequest to simulate any fight of more than a dozen people, and certainly not a large scale battle. And the Sun Dome Templars (the WB&R or Dragon Pass counter) represents roughly a thousand Yelmalio initiates with light sons, Wyter, priests and assorted support. To have an equivalent unit of Humakti you need all the Humakti in Dragon Pass, and I am sure no tribe chief or city will allow all their weaponthanes taken away, at least until Argrath starts to exploit and industrialize magic. I am sure we all agree that most Yelmalians suck at individual combat, and that the Sun Dome Templars are one of the best infantries in Dragon Pass. I still believe it is very compatible with the rules we have.

IMG yes, though the only reference that comes to mind is the iron city in Magasta's pool. For me it is the reason the dwarves do not actively recover iron from others. Mythically, as presented in my theories above, it is the dead Stone slowly rotting. With the exception of tin (who cares about tin) and of course iron, traditional Gloranthan metals are corrosion resistant (RW aluminium is not, but it behaves as if it is). That would help differentiate iron from the other metals, and why I like the idea that it rots, rather than rusts.

That is why I was referring to Hsunchen myths above, as they are the main ones that refer to the Green age before the split, and indeed they can manifest as human headed animals and animal headed humans. I was tempted to make six limbed creatures draconic, but we have to consider the solar connections of original horses and griffins. And draconic beings run the whole gamut of limbs.

I believe the strength of the Sun Dome Templars lies in two things that separate them from the typical orlanthi clan fyrd or Praxian raider band, and it is not magic. I see them more similar to the XVth century Swiss, professional soldiers by need, rather than inclination, rather than the unwieldy greek hoplites, supplying a reliable heavy infantry that is lacking among the armies that hire them. - Training. Why is life so boring in the Sun Dome? Because they work, and train, and work some more. Your typical Yelmalian will be at a skill level closer to a weaponthane, though with much less useful magic. Working as mercenaries broadens also their experience. - Morale. Resistance and your place in the file is everything. So they are much harder to break than the fickle orlanthi. Not critical at the skirmish level, but very important in bigger units. That is why they are good as a unit, but can be beaten individually quite easily. It is a cult of soldiers, not warriors. Tactics will play a role, with heavily armored file leaders in the first rank, and increasingly less armored people with linothorax armor in the back. As a wargamer, your block of pikes most of the time are not engaged, as people prefer to maneuver around them, and they seldom can catch up any enemies, as they are the slowest. But they still play a big role, forming a rallying point, a strongpoint in the battle line, frightening enemy pursuers and sometimes earning their salary by grinding down the enemy's heavy infantry in a bloody attrition fight. What you really do not want is a templar believing he can beat that humakti champion one on one and leaving the formation. The Yelmalion solution to a humakti in a trance is to skewer him with 20 or 30 pikes. In the RW 5-6 pikes would be enough, but in Glorantha you need more punching power.

Returning on the minor holy days, I am pretty sure that the clayday ceremonies at Nochet's High Ernalda temple will be better attended and more extensive than Ernalda's seasonal holy day anywhere in Sartar, and even high holy day in most clans. As attending the high holy day will be impossible for the average worshipper, pilgrims will flock on any clayday, and conversely the temple will play up to adequately impress and fleece donations of both magic and mundane goods. Lots of people mean an opportunity to renew the runepool. Opportunity to renew the runepool means lots of people. Once you have a critical mass, your worshippers have a lot of magic and can do more things with it, while the fountain of thousands of MPs from a well attended ceremony strengthen the goddess and the compromise. That is why I link runepool renewal to attendance and depth of the rites. High holy day will renew even a single worshipper using Sanctify, as the deepest mysteries are there. Others will depend on both the mystical significance but also on how many faithful people are there. Not to sound materialistic, but 100 people giving all but one MP will count for more than 1000 people giving one MP, but the difference for the goddess will be small, and both will attract the attention and therefore the magic of the goddess. In Glorantha that is what makes Esrolia so bountiful, impressing people from anywhere in Genertela. A blessed land indeed, at least prior to 1616.

I would not say "all", but all long lasting population centers certainly do. It is a great explanation. I consider magic and power are finite resources, so at a certain point you have to decide if it goes to the IG (and the officiating church) or it goes somewhere else (land goddess, city harmony, ancestors...). So the rulers have the option to sprad the magic around or to focus in something, but that will weaken the rest. Go full war and city harmony will be disturbed, crops will suffer and zzaburi will have less magic to play with. Well established cities are so resilient in Glorantha precisely because the spirit/god (and from a westerner point of view the difference is not qualitative but quantitative) is there and has a lot of invested power in it, so it is better to recontact it than making / finding a new one. New cities are weak because their spirit is weak, and in some cases the rulers are focusing in something else, so they are also easier to destroy. At least that is what I am working with in Ralios and having more or less the same cities (though they may move a bit) for centuries, but mixed in with Arkati secret societies and creative heroquesting. That also means some people talk about a god and some about the city to refer to the same thing.

I will take it as dependent on number of cultitsts present, and raise the threshold for associate cults. So Yinkin is not going to help much Orlanth if they cannot get 50 worshippers in the shrine, while Orlanth's high holy day will help anyone even loosely related to him, as there will be hundreds or even thousands of people present. Something similar with the weekly holy days, as if they get enough people, I would play the officiating priest can get RP, though not all the others present, as the ceremony will be less participating, and only at levels above shrine. Yes, it reinforces the main deities, as it should. A community priestess in a large city, for me, will always have points, but she will be expected to spend them as fast as she gets them. I would have a normal priest / priestess with always half of the Rune pool already spent, and in moments of crisis much less available.

I was always a bit miffed that the original version of "A Tale to Tell" in White Dwarf had excellent portraits of all the named broos (and they have been reused as beastmen in Warhammer publications) but was lacking a Muriah portrait. Maybe evil goat men is ok while an evil girl is "troubling". Now, where do I have that issue?

Forget Orlanth. The combo is for Argan Argar, who also has Create Shadow, which indicates that one point, that only creates a haze in sunlight, is enough to cast Dark Walk. So you create an area where you are invisible and silent , and light will not reveal you. No need to use extinguish. In sunlight the dark area will be evident, but with less light it may be very difficult to notice. It highlights the usefulness of magic perception and Dispel / Dismiss Magic in defence. Or the defensive value of a shaman. As for the Yelmalion in The Hill of Gold, IMG it would need an opposing orlanthi with Sandals of Darkness, and the Orlanthi would lose the ability to use Dark Walk. No free lunches...

Trolls would not normally melt lead, at least not with heat. So I would expect only the dwarves could afford molten lead, and in most cases it is more efficient and clean to use steam or dwarf fire (like Greek fire, but in Glorantha), or if surprised, shrapnel bombs, so damage to the stonework is low..

It is a period of testing, specially for characters that do not know it is not a permanent thing. In the only game that interacted with this, the two orlanth initiates went humakti, as they wanted to keep fighting the Lunars and understood their clan could not afford to be linked to them, without ignoring the nifty magics. Then they became bandits taking tribute, mainly food, back from the Lunars. It actually died out as a bad Robin Hood parody. I also think it is important this is a wide but still localized effect. So you can move away and the problem sort of solves itself. Easier done with rootless adventurers than with the clan ring, however, but it could be a good moment to join the Wolf pirates, travel to Ralios or to visit Umathela. I would expect that most Orlanthi will try to solve this, so many people will be attempting heroquests to reverse it, and it is even possible that they actually succeed, so it is not only the merit of Kallyr and Broyan, but also the efforts of your players.

I would say he is important to someone, as he has his own planet, and a fairly noticeable one. But he is not very important for Orlanthi. Maybe he is important in some other part of Glorantha. Or he is really Larnste hiding in plain sight. Owner of a rune is a God Learner concept that most Gloranthans would not even consider. Or maybe Larnste is divided in several pieces / gods, with Mastakos as the rune holder, and it is waiting for someone to reunite them again, and bring change back in full glory to the world. One of those things I appreciate, the blank areas where your opinion is worth the same as anybody else, until Stasis / Canon fixes it in amber.

The main factor in a skirmish level siege is surprise. Climbing when the people on top of the wall are ready is suicide, unless you have strong magical protection, unless you can put more ladders / climbers than there are defenders. Magic is also more critical in small scale fights, as a good flying warrior / Air elemental can clear the battlement of enemies and allow their companions to reach the top without facing a 20 kg stone in the face. Gates usually are reinforced and, in a well designed fortification, accesible from murder holes if it cannot be struck from the battlements. In case of attack, most defenders will be in the battlements, except for a small reserve, for a sortie or in case the enemy breaches the wall or the gate. At this scale siege machinery is not significant, except for a small ram to use against the gate, or an earth elemental that may play the same role. Missile superiority may force the defenders in the battlement to take cover, so they cannot interfere with climbers. Due to the speed of climb and the likely presence of obstacles in the wall, most assults use ladders, which may be much easier to build on site in Dragon Pass than Prax. Discorporated shamans, spirits and some animals can be used for recon, and in the case of a strong shaman they could storm the fortress on their own. If the defenders are magic savvy, they should have countermeasures to most of this options. Bound ghosts and other spirit options against spirit spies. Netting reinforced with metal and bells to keep fliers away from the battlements. Circles of light and guard dogs against invisible or dark walking infiltrators. Glass or clay shards in potential handholds on the wall to make climbing more difficult, iand negative slopes before the top. I do not expect the defenders in your case to have access to most of that, except possibly bound spirits, as that is one of their specialties.

I tend to follow the Discworld. You get the afterlife you think you merit. That said, many cultures believe in reincarnation and/or a Judge of the Dead, so you may think you are good and the judge prove you are mistaken, and you end up somewhere else. That also means that, unless captured somehow, malkioni souls disappear, but it is not clear whether they disperse or reach Solace. Except for Saints that remain as bridges for others / find a place in Godtime. So trolls that believe they will be punished will go to a troll punishment place that is not in the underworld, while most will go to still dark portions of wonderhome, and then either wait to return to the hurtplace, or stay there till needed. Zorak zorani will join the hell legions and wait till they are called, served by those souls they have enslaved, in Zorak Zoran's portion of Hell. Strong heroes may escape this, usually because they have pending tasks, but most will be content in the dark. Many dark trolls hope they did well enough to be reborn as a female, or even better, a female Mistress troll. Trolkin, if educated enough, dream of returning as a dark troll. The problem is that there are many more troll dead spirits than living ones, so the wait is long. Arkat kingtroll devotees will depend on their true beliefs, and degree of illumination. If they are more troll, or more arkati. I consider that the arkati that appear in old works act as guardians of myths are actually dead arkati still doing their part for Arkat.

For ancient analysis I like "A collection of unmitigated pedantry" historical blog, and he has a series on fortifications, titled "The besiegers playbook" Actually the ancients were more advanced than the Middle Ages in many aspects in sieges. The main factor is the tower itself, how ready it is and if they have time to improve it. Magic also adds an extra dimension. Spirits can ignore the fortification. Orlanthi may fly in, unless the tower is "flier-proof". An earth elemental may demolish the building. The defenders have limited resources, unless they can smuggle resources from outside. therefore it may be important to audit the number of projectiles, food and water. Depending on the state of the tower, the buiding itself can be used as a projectile. Hot or burning oil is impressive, but it is a one use trick. It might be better to use the oil for signaling, and to safeguard against surprise attacks at night. Who are the besiegers? May they build siege weapons? Build a contravallation?

I fully agree, except that for a dark troll, a belly full of delicious food is paradise, so that trumps anything else. As they are immune to cold, and have a different attitude to risk, Troll's Maslow pyramid, IMO, would look something like: 1. Food 2. Momma's love 3. Community/partners 4. Shelter 5. Safety Religion would be part in Momma's love, part in Community, and probably more important for them than most humans. The sun protection I would put in 4, though probably higher priority for a Mistress troll, who joins Community with Momma, and has ambitions and self-realization beyond most of the dark trolls. .

I think we are conflating a game solution (cool benefits for Rune Lords), which is there as a balancing mechanic for warrior cults to compensate all the lost time and money, and as a clear signal of status for players, with Glorantha the world. I am pretty sure if a clan needs a Wind Lord, or has a clear candidate, they will be ordained even without iron. It will be provided, when available, and make do in the meantime with other more abundant metal. I have never liked Earth cults taking always enchanted iron rather than encanted copper. It is again a play balance thing, and could be justified in a few cases by the death link of iron, but difficult to justify mythically. In the same way, though it goes against years of playing and powerplaying, I would prefer air cultists using enchanted bronze, Air's metal, rather than iron, but I know it is a losing proposition. I also expect wide regional variations. Pamaltela is really lacking in Iron, except in Umathela and perhaps Fonrit, while in the West you can have a full company of soldiers (and none of them Rune level) with iron weapons and some armor. The Lunars have two important dwarven enclaves that trade openly, the Yolp mountains and Greatway, relatively close, as well as open trade routes to the West, so it would be expected they have more iron than Dragon Pass, though usually reserved for people working for the Empire, usually in the army.

I would say that Griffins / Griffons or hippogriffs are easier in Glorantha than Shedu / Lammasu or human headed sphynxes (a hieracosphinx is functionally a wingless griffin), adue to the opposition of the Man and Beast runes. That is not to say they cannot exist, but that either they are unnatural (such as the remade in Beast Valley), or they need a good story, such as Ironhoof. I also think that is one of the reasons why the existing beastmen are considered strange in a world full of mythic creatures. We can well suppose the EWF remakers were looking for some previous age hybrids when they started their "experiments", and that is what you could find in Genert's garden, but I would limit most human / animal hybrids to Hsunchen myths and cultures, who do not see the difference between Beast and Human in the same way.

Robcradle was a relatively big place, so both could be true. A cradle snatching set up on the river, and a cradle processing center in Yelmalio hill. Moving a cradle from one to the other would require something like Corfu's watchdog in the original size.

Sequential Godtime is a risk, but iron appears only after High King Elf uses Death (upgraded version, as Joerg says) on Stone/the World Machine. Which is why I am now convinced that iron is the really dead parts of the world Machine, refined by the dwarves against their enemies. We have mostly dead stone that you use for jolanti, nilmergs, gobblers and the repairs to the World Machine, and the fully dead stone that is only good for killing things, though it is impossible / very difficult to animate, as it is dead. We will know better if those mostali iron statues animate at some point in the future.