JRE

The point here is whether in your game the world adapts to the mechanics, or the mechanics adapts to the world. In the first case there is an effort to make the deities balanced, because otherwise nobody would pick a poor deity. In the second you recognize not all deities are appropiate for adventurers, so only due to special circumstances will a player character pick those deities. RQ2 tried to fit in the first class, while from RQ3 forward Glorantha tried to move into the second paradigm, which brought us my most envied spell ever (erotocomatose lucidity). Goddesses and magic for the 99.9% of people that are not fighting every day. Waha has social advantages rather than magical advantages, and only once you make it to Khan, so the only real good (in personal power terms) player character reason to pick Waha as your deity is to become Khan. The advantage of a Khan is clear. A Humakti may have better magic than you, but I doubt he can survive being the target of 200 Impala braves (mechanically, some 5-10 arrow Crits per round, depending on penalties), before considering the Uroxi that obey the khan, the shaman that also obeys the khan, etc., and all of this without asking his wife for help. It is a different kind of game, and if you take the Khan without his people, it is like taking a Humakti Sword without her sword. Fun for a one shot game, but inadequate long term. Seeing your campaign set up, the only reason I see a Waha initiate joining is to get experienced enough to try for Khan, and then leave and never return (unless he uses what he has learnt to raid the settlement), which is not good for long term play.

That is a very good idea, the cradles as source of magic that can be perverted to harm Giants. That would open the possibility of the Pavis cult himself, as he picked Robcradle for a reason, and the Giants at least saw him and his city as an enemy, so he may well have picked some cradle secrets or magics before founding the city. For a less scrupulous option, there may well remain anti-Giant GL magics in the ruins of Feroda or Robcradle.

I agree they is one of the best information sources for the clan ring, but we were talking impersonating an enemy for some time without being detected, not general information gathering.

Aldrya (even if asleep / hidden) through High King Elf, as it is one of the standard participants in I fought we won. Forests near Chaos infestations surely have specialized seeds, healing rituals and arrows for chaos slaying and purification. As metcalph says, Death is effective against chaos, and BG fought chaos and survived.

In the RW people agree (since ancient times) that the rules are different in war, which opens the question of when you are at war. So you can do in war actions that are dishonorable in peace, such as poison wells, kill civilians to keep them from raising an alarm or helping the enemy or secret murder your enemies, because that is what ambushing a Lunar patrol in an inn is. If both sides agree you are at war, certainly you are and rules change. But what happens if only one of the sides does, such as an insurgence? Then you have conflict and emotion, and tough moral choices. Most Humakti see only one set of rules, so they apply always. In a way the choices for Humakti are easy, though the consequences of the choices are hard. I see Yanafal Tarnils as more sophisticated, so I suspect they keep different sets of rules for different conditions, possibly even more than the simple two, War and Peace. I am sure there are formal declarations of war, even if they do not use the term war, between Orlanthi clans or tribes, though it is a last resource as that may destroy one or both combatants.

I am not French, but I lived several years there, and we have a similar word in Spanish, and I have to say that Crápula / Crapule is a classic literature word (highly used in XVIth-XIXth literature) with etymology going back to latin (crapula, wine excess) and old greek (κ ρ α ι π α ́ λ η, drunkenness). It evolved to mean any degenerate, usually someone who started right and degrades down into all kind of vices. As such it fits very well with a trickster, as alcohol is just the entry point to a wide series of vices. Taking it a bit further, being the village drunk lets you do magic in Glorantha, and as it is likely you get to join community HQ as Eurmal, the magic may start to pile up. However the magic you need for infiltration and spying are present in only a few shrines, so those are the Eurmali you need. If the town Eurmali just has a detachable penis, can hallucinate for hours, bring up rainbow unicorns and make beer taste like wine, he will be popular at parties, but no good as a spy.

Going back to the maneuverings between Esrolian Queens, Yelmalio's cult is a good support for any ambitious queen. Not a critical faction, but probably loyal as long as you keep the top hierarchy happy, and a good counterbalance to the Lightbringers, so that means they probably supported the Red Earth faction. Not numerous but with a disproportionate military bent, as they probably can count on many Northern mercenaries as well, or bring them south relatively fast. What that means after the defeat of the Red Earth is for us to explore, but as they are not really Lunarized they can switch sides once the Lunar support breaks after the Dragonrise. If there was a multiplayer con game of Esrolian queens, a single male character and easy to manipulate with sex / marriage, but useful if you go for a military win.

I would say Theist magic in Glorantha is transactional. You behave right, you get the magic. That is MGF as you can have doubters, hesitant priests or fanatics outside normal dogma. Not cookie cutter worshippers emulating their deity in the exact same way. Which however means that at certain points the Eurmali will need to steal something or lie, to keep their status. But thay can more or less choose how and when. And it is better to be careful with them around Disorder week. I expect a resident Eurmali behaves differently than a nomadic one, as you cannot run away from your actions. So if you are obnoxious and abusive with the local girls, you will likely get a javelin in your neck and nobody will regret it unless you were the last Eurmali in the clan, or if you were already far away when the family of the offended come looking for you. A clan ring Eurmali, with hopefully high Loyalty (clan) and maybe even a strong Love, can be trusted to behave most of the time, and also at this point they already know they will steal pies, paint alynxes yellow and some other relatively inoffensive disorder things that the clan will tolerate to keep the magic. Maybe a few times a year they will travel some distance and do something outrageous to people who are not of the clan, and ideally someone they Hate. That may well be an infiltration mission... The only Eurmali in a clan may be a real pain in the ass, as they are needed, so they can get away with much more.

The local differences are always up to how much work you want to do and how willing you are to deviate from written canon. If you want you can have slight variations even among neighbouring clans because unless you have a Sun Dome Temple all temples will be small or shrines, so you will never have a whole magic set. And if you want the local Elmali to have some weird difference is a matter of taste, even something apparently major like allowing Firearrow. The big difference for me is social, as Yelmalio can be a ruler cult, as one of Ernalda's husbands, and can take part in fertility rites and general fun, while Elmal as the good thane just will always be second fiddle. Now, as a worshipper, what would feel more fulfilling, the sun's son that saved the world, and shags the queen, or the guy that gets always left behind to guard the stead while the king is away having fun and saving the world? To master horses for you, or to do it for someone else that killed your father? For me, besides the mythical reasons that I mentioned earlier, it is no surprise the Elmali turned to Yelmalio as soon as they were aware of what it meant. Outside adventurers, most people would prefer to join the fertility orgy rather than being the guys/gals stuck guarding the tula while all the rest are shagging, even if they let me learn Fireblade. What use is that anyway, 99% of the time?

As mentioned by EricW, illumination is your friend for those swaps. That would allow a Humakti in Yanafal, or an Irripi Ontor scholar lie his way into Lhankor Mhy. It would not help a Humakti to roleplay an Issaries trader, however. Some Eurmali can be trusted somewhat, but it should be short term. Just pick someone with a very strong passion, either Loyalty or Hate. Illumination is how all those Arkati secret societies keep going secret. If necessary it would allow you to use an abomination, like a White Healer Sword of Humakt. Or Argrath's loving companion infiltrating the Lunar camp and keeping Jar Eel busy during the battle of Dwernapple.

I still find it strange to have a resurgence of Dragon Magic and very little Dragonewt mention. On the other hand they are the only Elder race without a known plot to hurt humans, though the key word here is "known". Maybe Argrath is their plot. On the other hand, once Argrath goes full EWF, he might have reasons to get rid of the dragonewts, as they destroyed the first incarnation. Or Phargentes, when he will take Sartar, will have the opportunity to destroy the dragonewt cities. Certainly they were not his allies. The Chronology is quite iffy, but Inkarne pushed Cragspider out of Dragon Pass, and normally that could only happen if the Black Dragon was not around. I suspect a secondary effect of Argrath waking up dragons is that the dragons go away to do draconic things, and that could leave the dragonewts in Dragon Pass without protectors...

That is up to the character and the GM, as there are no tables of equivalence. And the deity, of course. But usually at that point it is body parts, chunks of your life or things you cannot buy with money. Service is a classic, though less appropiate if you are a rune level 90% committed. Self-mutilation is another classic, though in RQ you also can abstract it by using characteristic points. It has to cost, not only the character but also the player. So maybe that iron sword they are inordinately fond of? Evil guys can usually find a loophole by sacrificing other people to the right deity, so that is another way.

Like Darius, I see the Void as separate from nothing, because even if it seems empty, it has potential. But I believe (which I suppose makes me a draconic at heart) the potential must remain balanced. So when Glorantha is created from the Void, there is an anti-Glorantha created at the same time, that is kept outside (separate). Which I feels fit with the semantics of using Glorantha separated from the Void, as that for me is more nuanced than simply created from the Void. The greater Darkness is when the anti-Glorantha mixes with Glorantha, some matter - anti matter interactions explode the Spike and anti-Glorantha is named Chaos. Their opposite nature creates those effects I listed in the post above, but the interaction is more complex than annihilation on contact, and many new things appear. The Compromise just accepts the non-annihilating parts of Chaos into the World, and the annihilating parts of Chaos (both physical, mental and moral) become Time and Glorantha faces a slow decay rather than annihilation. My conclusion from this is that unless you inject more Creation from the Void, Glorantha will decay to nothing, but that is possibly what will happen in our own universe, so the big question is what will be the time frame for the decay. Centuries, millennia, millions, billions... And that means mythically nothing can last, post-compromise. Even what seems unchanging needs to change all the time to stave off Time.

Pike phalanxes are quite difficult to set up in the real world, as they require much more training and skill than either a hoplite block or a shield wall. in a combined arms army it has been a recipe for success in field battles, and it only fails when the pikemen are not good enough or when they are not supported with cavalry and projectiles, though there are plentiful battles when they still managed to turn the battle. Magic will change things, but I like to compare magic to some technological weapons in terms of effect in battlefield formation, as we do not really know how a thunderbolt, or an elemental, or a hell hound doom charge really work, but I can extrapolate. A thunderbolt should not be much more than one 3 pound cannon shot, for instance. Depending on how you use an elemental, it could alternate between grapeshot/organ guns (engulfing an area before destroyed/dismissed) and an obstacle like hidden ditches and traps/mines. I ignore the possibility of Control and sending it back to the enemy, as the troopers will just destroy it just to be on the safe side. It will be difficult to communicate that the elemental is now in your side. A hell hound doom charge may better resemble a rolling 12 pounder battery salvo, which may kill several files, and plays havoc in deep formations. So I would expect Glorantha soldiers to use more modern tactics than their bronze age counterparts, as they face more complex battlefield threats, but many of them can really be assimilated to the different flavors of artillery / long range menaces, from infantry guns to heavy mortars, with some classic tricks unusual in more modern times, like elephants, scythed chariots or flaming pigs. I would assume that most spirit magic balances out, as it is at an individual level, but will benefit those with more experience and cult support. I class it as part of the "equipment".Better armor, better weapons, better magic. A good phalanx is not an unwieldy brick like the undrilled hoplites. They are able to open corridors in seconds to let allies, but also enemy scythed chariots or elephants (dinosaur analogues?), go through, to be destroyed from the side deeper in the formation. I would expect also they can switch to shallower and more open formations fast, when subjected to artillery/heavy magic, as well as adopting extremely deep advance columns to close very fast with the enemy, and possibly charge trotting like the Swiss, rather than marching like the Macedonians, just to close the distance faster with the artillery / long distance attacks. The key part is whether they are familiar with the tactics in use, so they will have a countermeasure, and what combined arms are available. Pikes and cavalry work very well together, but it is not useful if you do not have any cavalry. No historical army consisted of only one type of troop (fantasy ones, however...), except some hunter-gatherer bands that can barely be considered as armies. Even apparently simple armies, such as steppe nomads, usually had 3-4 different kinds of riders, and I expect they exist also in Pent or Prax, from young riders looking for their first kill (a requirement for marriage among some Sarmatian tribes, and girls could take part too) acting as scouts / skirmishers, usually eager to fight but the first to run, to the bulk of horse archers that will avoid getting too close, but skilled with their bows and in keeping their distance, then better equipped veterans (in Glorantha including magic) that will engage in melee if the circumstances are right but their main weapon is still the bow, to well equipped noble/religious retinues that may use lances and that expect to turn the battle by charging and breaking the enemy at the right time. In their land the Sun domers have to rely on their pikes, but also auxiliary spearmen and young skirmishers, and outside Prax specialist horse archers as well. When hiring out they will check who they are hiring with and if they have a right troop balance for them, as they only hire the Templars, so they will need some support. That is also in my opinion a differentiating factor, as the Templars are all initiates or above, which is more than the clan militias and warbands they usually fight against, where there is a core of initiates and a few rune levels, but most combatants are not initiates of a fighting deity. I would remember that until faced with overwhelming firepower, pikes did not only dominate ancient battlefields, they were the key component in European armies from the XVth to the XVIIth centuries, when battle conditions, in my opinion, resemble more a Gloranthan battle.

From a semantics point of view, it is not annihilation (become nothing) if it is possible to return from it. I would propose what the mystics achieve is oblivion, where you are forgotten, both by the universe and yourself, so you are lost unless you can be remembered, or discovered again For me that would be to return to the original Void. Chaos in Myths can do both, annihilation and oblivion, expressed in Kajabor, and I would propose that those touched by the void can really escape annihilation, as the Void, as said above, is both more and less, so it cannot become nothing. They remain in the Void, and can be recovered from it. It is a tight fit, between becoming Nothing or returning to a potential Void Wakboth corrupts and annihilates the mind, rather than matter, and that is also a function of Chaos, so you adopt the opposite morals of what was right in the Golden age. Some corruption can be reversed, but others just cannot be undone. That is how actions can turn you to Chaos, the way of the Devil. Kajabor got weaker as it annihilated others, because that annihilated also parts of it. Wakboth killed Kajabor because it wanted to rule its Glorantha, not annihilate it. Pocharngo just wants everything to return to the Void, and become simply potential.

I have the original 94 text somewhere in a box, so I was hesitant to buy it again, despite my avowed interest in the West. Buy it, if you have any interest in the West and Malkionism. This is a beautiful work, and it will be in-world canon for me. It is also great to show to the players and get them in the right mindset. It concentrates a fairly complex story in easy to digest nuggets, and with pictures for the illiterate ones! The extras are very illustrative of what happens behind the screen, and how much work this takes. They are also much funnier than the main text...

I think part of this discussion also takes place in several parts in Glorantha, about the nature of Chaos, whether it is innate or acquired, and if a chaos curse can be lifted. Outside of Lhankhor Mhy temples, Lunar debate societies and Arkati secret meetings, most people will consider chaos taint as permanent and brought on either by your ancestors or your own misdeeds. The Telmori are tolerated because they appear as humans most of the time, so except their neighbours who know better, they can be accepted as cursed fellows through no fault of their own. Scorpion men or broos do not have that option, but we can have fun thinking of sanitation broos in Glamour, still oppressed but a functional part of society, until it all hits a fan, and we know that is going to happen, despite the best efforts of the Teelo Norri social workers trying to turn them (and they will succeed in a few cases) into Lunar citizens. As a game, Runequest and the exploration of Glorantha is focused on conflict. But at least in Glorantha we get a glimpse of all the benefits that magic may have outside conflict, from Bless crops to Couvade to Erotocomatose lucidity. I also consider that our view of Chaos is rooted in the conflict of the game, and many cultures are more tolerant of Chaos than the reference Orlanthi of Dragon Pass. We already know about the Pelorians, but I am sure others will hate some traditional enemies more than Chaos, and they will be willing to use Chaos against them, as the Pelorians did with the Carmanians. But my Glorantha is full of illuminati, so it may be more tolerant than the baseline.

Thinking a bit more deeply on the matter of sacrifices as already included in the ceremonies and connecting with the thread about the ficial replenishing of Rune Points, I suspect the wealth of a community will affect how important are the ceremonies, and that will affect how much renewable magic is available. This quickly builds up as a virtuous cycle and you get the Esrolia case, rich, as rich they have plentiful sacrifices, and that means more blessings so you get even richer... Inversely, if you want to limit RP recovery, just tie it up with the availability of tithes and sacrifices, so unless the players bring wealth and cows, they may have to wait a whole season for a major worship ceremony, as that is what their clan can afford. It is extra work, but each interaction of cult and culture will bring up preferred sacrifices. Bring up a human prisoner to a Cacodemon temple and it will be a big event, though they will try to make them last, so one human sacrifice per season unless they got half a dozen at the same time. That way rescue is an option (MGF). Chalana Arroy probably takes medicinal and aromatic herbs and a tithe of fresh vegetables. Orlanth probably meat animals and beer, though the beer is probably linked more with Ernalda and her daughters, but that is the point of being married, sharing the burdens and the benefits... Rex will melt jewels (though the metal can be reused), and also bring better animals and expensive drinks such as wine. Adventurous may take also weapons that in most cases will end up in the temple armory. Old saxons sacrificed weapons throwing them in bogs and lakes. That could work also in Glorantha, though usually you destroy only the best of the lot as a worthy sacrifice. This fits with my vision of most ceremonies being long, many hours to a whole day, so food and drink need to be provided by the temple. In a large temple, you would have ceremonies every day, but on Freezeday you will get the leftovers, cold mutton and flat beer, though a wise priest will make sure there is something fresh for Orlanth's portion. In Windsday you may well get a whole sheep in a firepit and most of the community will join, and depending on any associates involved, incense from Issaries, healing poultices applied from CA, and scribe services as well as some burnt papyrus from Lhankor Mhy. It is a ceremony, but it is also how a community joins together and supports its people.

Sacrifice is, for me, implicit in many ceremonies, without any bonus, and possibly a negative if you lack it. That is a big part of the cult tithes, livestock, foodstuff or other objects dedicated to the deity. That is not destroyed in whole, usually just a small part and the rest shared with the congregation. So, for Orlanthi, as Orlanth will host you in his Long House in the other side, I am sure his ceremonies involve sacrificial food and drink. That may also explain why so many orlanthi quests start with a feast. It is better to be well fed and in good spirits when you face the unknown. The benefit from donating more than you should is almost purely social, as the donor does not officiate the ceremony. Donating will probably get you mentioned, and that could justify the small skill increase. As the tithe depends on your income, it allows a poor widow show more virtue donating a chicken than a rich trader donating a couple of cows. An exception could be a ceremony made just because a PC has donated seven cows, so the daily ceremony becomes much bigger, all the neighbours will come because they know there will be a banquet, and you can recover Runepoints because what was almost a small private worship (where only the officiating priest recovers Runepoints) becomes a major ceremony where all initiates can recover RPs. Everybody will bless the donor's generosity, so I might apply a bigger bonus, if this is a deity that values generosity. In my Glorantha no initiate in good status will risk starvation in his community, unless they all starve, or if the god becomes silent, which is another of the horrors of the Windstop. Just attend the daily ceremonies and you will receive some food.

As I said, it is a natural conclusion from gods being fixed in the God Time and the magic system, but all theists will really believe the magic comes from their god, or they would not be theists. Living right lets you use magic, and more power you sacrifice, more magic you can use. The second argument is illuminati keeping their rune magic. They tend to break the rules, but I take it as a sign that the magic is yours, not the god's. As my interest is really other geographical zones and periods in Glorantha, the magical framework and how things change from the orlanthi baseline is a key aspect for me, as a way to build mixed magic systems, as in Safelster or the Secong Age, with rune magic and draconic mysticism or sorcery.

One difference between the Dark Ages and Glorantha is the fact that Gloranthans have experienced already troubling moments in the God Time ceremonies. And they know, rather than believe, that god will care for them. So in general I agree sanity is something that probably would be a problem for rootless adventurers and outlaws. Passions work well for all the fear and loathing you may need.

Just came home from watching "The Northman" and I really enjoyed it. Fate, oracles, god rivalry, magic as seen by the believers. It may not be as it was, from music, to buildings, to fighting... but it has verosimilitude. I really liked the berserkers pre-battle preparation, but in fact I liked all of it.

This is all my metagame view, not what people in Glorantha will believe. The Godtime links mean that the cults are more similar and through longer distances than in Earth. Though each area will have their own myths, that they keep because they work, understanding "work" as we get some benefit out of them. Sometimes the benefit is great, and some myths will spread fast, and bring uniformity to the cult. Much more people than the God learners did so, though Issaries ubicuity and uniformity, strongly linked to trade routes and the language tradetalk is their creation, with the built in safety valve of different daughters and sons, which is where you will find the local variations. The orlanthi have had several widespread "reforms", and they are widespread because they work, and that is why they are almost everywhere and a strong culture. We have first the Thelayan missions, that fixed more or less the pantheon and in my opinion The compromise and I fought we won, then Harmast and Arkat's codification of myths, including the critical Lightbringer's quest, but also formalizing and reinforcing the main myths. The EWF added many Draconic touches and an undercurrent of mysticism. Finally Alakoring Dragonbreaker not only tried to break off the Draconic bits, but added Rex and a series of changes that made orlanthi kingdoms possible, something I suspect Harmast would have found aberrant. Argrath is probably preparing a new one, going a step up to Empire, as well as adding and spreading myths that bring the results he wants at this point in time. So big influential cults will be quite similar because there is real power in uniformity. Small cults will be all different in the neighbouring valley, unless there is a clear benefit in the neighbours' way, which will make you adopt their ways when you are aware of them. In my opinion the Elmal / Yelmalio switch is such a change, when a minor cult adds myths that make them major, so the cult adapts. That does not mean more magic necessarily, but in this case the benefit for the cult is that they stop being a subservient cult and now it can be a ruling cult, able to marry Ernalda on their own, even if that means losing some fire magics. The Sartarite do not have any beneficial way from adopting Praxian Storm Bull myths. The Praxian likewise with Urox myths. So they recognize they are faces of the same god, but do not adopt them.

It is not a positive proof, but if I remember right, we have no proof either they survive in the Fourth Age. I have King of Sartar in a box somewhere, but I got the impression they were not really in the stories. And keep in mind that the premise is that the material world loses contact with the Godtime, and all immortals either go away or die, and I would apply that to dragonewts. And in any case, if after 1800 years and a Hero War you have not made it to dragon, you will not do it in the magic-less fourth age.

I suppose you play with Orlanthi, and from what we know from that culture it is perfectly correct. But I cannot accept it as an absolute truth, as Glorantha is much more complex. What if the characters are Tusk Riders, raiding a village? Or a troll matriarch, that surely can order any non-hero troll male to have sex with her and may well eat him afterwards if she is not satisfied, or if she is a Gorakiki mantis shaman? Are Vadeli chaotic? From their point of view, I am sure that no. From an Orlanthi perspective, they look like it, but they will not sense as chaotic to an Uroxi. IMG, of course, but our references support it. Magic is belief. Rune associations are also a matter of belief. And belief in Glorantha affects physically the world. The horror comes when you realize the Kingdom of War rapists and cannibals are sure they are righteous, and the universe agrees with them giving them the power to kill even more and by not making them chaotic. That way lies illumination and madness, when you realize it is all relative, and that you can exploit the magic to do whatever you want.