JRE

Scotty has posted in the Q&A thread

The question for me is what is the actual sequence. Do you enchant the metal and then forge the weapon? Or do you forge the weapon and then enchant it? In the first case, it is the spearhead which matters, as replacing shafts is a common activity in ancient armies. In the second, you lose it, because it is the weapon, not the metal part.

The only other RQ game I am aware of in town is pure RQ3 (in a mythic Britannia, as a spin off from a Vikings campaign). I am updating my MRQ game, but I am sorely tempted to just adapt RQ3. We used traits, as shown in John T. Sapienza's Expanded RQ3 character sheet from Heroes, so adding Passions, etc. is not a significant change.

So the question is whether spirit perception is simply second sight, or if it is more similar to soul sight or pierce veil. despite the MGF comment above, it is looking as if most undead are disconnected from the spirit plane, and cannot be attacked. It could be said that any undead that has taken POW since the last dusk, can be detected by the lost magic, even it is no longer POW but MPs. That could be the explanation for the vamire and vampiric being exception.

I would say that only a Lhankor Mhy pedant would use words like Mostali, Uz or Aldryami (so we can keep using them). Normal people will just see elves and wood spirits, trolls and darkness spirits, and dwarfs, though those are rarely met, except for people that visit Bad Deal. Dragonewts are frequently met but almost never interacted with in Dragon Pass. Dragon Pass is not an ordinary part of Genertela, as it has an extraordinary population of non-human sentients, so a Sartarite living near the King's road may well have met trolls, dragonewts, beast men (not elder race, but alien enough), ducks (ditto), and if near Dwarf Run, dwarfs traveling to Pavis or Boldhome. Probably the only ones she has actually talked to are the ducks, however. She knows where there are elves, but that means the part of the forest you do avoid, so no real experience. Troll caravans are an uncommon event in Sartar, moving between the different troll power sites, mainly the Shadow plateau and Dagori Inkarth. I would propose they use Sartar roads and benefit from their protection, so most people near the roads will have met them. An Issaries trader may well have traded with Argan Argar cultists, and have met some dragonewt that started an interaction. I do not expect even an Issaries initiate to try to communicate with a dragonewt that did not communicate first, but a Silver Tongue probably will try. Dwarfs feature in many legends and stories in the West, but that does not make the stories true. But a westerner will know more about dwarfs, while dragonewts will be a shock.

I really like the idea that a spirit that takes the last MP in an animated undead is sucked into it but can control it. That means spirits or shamans will not want to use spirit combat, even if they can, most of the time. Lots of MGF opportunity, without having to do changes to spirit combat itself.

RQ: G, for me has an aspect that does not appear in the essay, that I would call "The tiranny of the setting", or "The one true Glorantha", typical of games where the very rich setting creates its own set of constraints. It can be played as Traditional, but if the GM tries to adhere to the setting, that reduces her agency, with the benefit of better compatibility with other players and with future supplements. Other games also have this problem, and the degree of adherence to the "Canon" can be used to challenge the GMs authority, something unusual within a traditional game. I will go further and propose that rich settings have the setting as a kind of assistant GM, as they make the work of the GM easier, at the expense of lost agency, and usually high money expense, to get all supplements. Like Gloranthan gods, limited to their Godtime actions.

As I tend to write too much, my point is that if people are willing to sacrifice people when you have no clear magical benefit (Earth) they will do so when there is a clear magical benefit (Glorantha). And if sacrificing one soldier protects a thousand, all armies will be willing to sacrifice a few hundreds. One willing volunteer may save dozens of her comrades, so I am sure it will be done. That also allows to give some quirks and personalities to the Wyter.

It clearly depends on your community and its religion. I am quite sure many regiments start by sacrificing the best soldier, to become the patron spirit, as they did in the RW (when people believed in their religion), and it was a great honor to win the sacrificial games. Just consider the Tournament of Luck and Death, which I do not think anyone in the Holy Country considered chaotic or tricksterish, and has a voluntary sacrifice to embody the protector spirit / demigod of the Holy Country. We have sacrificial kings or queens, why not doing the same in a small scale? An octogenarian elder willing to strengthen the community rather than going to Orlanth's tula will probably be honored. Now, consider a warband of Tusk Riders. Are they Chaotic? No. Are they disorderly? Sure. And I am pretty sure they do not sacrifice their own POW to their communal wyter, but somebody's else. Most religions are willing to sacrifice people (some heroquests require deaths, and if you want real power, that will not be pretend...) for the right reasons. And many will prefer to sacrifice a stranger, whether a scapegoat, or a ritual enemy, or a source of magic in war. Most communities connected to PCs will not sacrifice people, or do so only in a voluntary basis. Unless you play Uz. Or Lunars. Or Old Tarshites...

It sounds good, but in the RW the death for #1 could well be a deliberate sacrifice, either voluntary or involuntary, to create a protecting spirit. That should be even more prevalent in Glorantha where the spirit effectiveness is more evident. The forced or volunteer factor may well affect the interaction of the wyter with the people it serves. Seems appropiate for regimental spirits with voluntary sacrifices, and in many cities people were sacrificed and interred in the foundation of the walls. Animal sacrifices may also be used, though that may also be bait to attract other spirits. Further sacrifices may be used to strengthen the wyter, specially in times of need, but the first should set the tone for the following sacrifices. It feels mythically correct also for founders and elders to join in some form their community wyter to keep helping the community. It will depend on the aftermath expectatives and local religion. Reminds me of the Norse sacrificing captives and at times volunteers before battle. Romans despised routine human sacrifice, but they still sacrificed important enemies in religious ceremonies (like Vercingetorix). The good king Sartar is a well known proponent of #3, above, and I am quite sure the kingdom he founded does not support human sacrifices, but I also think that rule relaxed while there was no queen or king in Sartar.

I would pick a simple explanation, even if Occam's razor is not a reliable tool in Glorantha. Thunderstones are always flintstones. Manthi stones are badass thunderstones, and getting them requires a heroquest to get Manthi to gift them to you. Harmast probably discovered or rediscovered this myth. Considering the relationship between water and air, I would make it a non-violent quest, except for getting to Manthi's realm. That could have some martial challenges. As a second explanation, if there are electric eels in Glorantha, that could be a source, a gem in their body that generates lightning. Manthi could be their overlord or father. Or you could combine both, with a trip to Manthi's realm and facing off giant electric eels for the gems in their heads. A way to have a thunderstone with a rating over the 15-20 maximum of the Bless Thunderstone spell. Hero stuff, or munchkinism, but just think of what could be done with a 50 rating thunderstone, or something like that.

Maybe my view of Jar Eel is permanently colored by the incredible Dan Barker's "Jar Eel Assassin" t-shirt, but I think her standard procedure is, like her ancestor Hon Eel, making others fall in love with her. That inevitably causes a lot of self inflicted casualties. Though it can be turned on her, as in Dwernapple. I think she fights when she has to, but she prefers not having to do so. I also think she will be at the tearing of the Red Moon / Rise of the White Moon, so maybe those White Moon debaters were more succesful than expected. I would expect most of Glorantha knows about the Blue Moon, specially in Pamaltela as her children live there. In Genertela she is mostly tied up with troll assassins, and Lunar copycats, so I am sure it is not something people mention often. Bad luck, and bad for your health. Sailors, however, trace her movement and will try to predict her fall, as that will change the tides. Obviously everyone knows of the Red Moon, and that it is a "recent" development. I expect that is one of the main reasons the Hero Wars take part mainly in the lands between Dragon Pass and Peloria, because that is a beacon that brings heroes from the whole world, both to support it and tear it down.

Thanks Joerg, I was trying to keep personal matters out of the threads. Until I discovered this thread. That PBEM campaign was one of the highlights of my stay in France. I should reorganize all that work of Safelster and update it.

In my DIs wording matters a lot. And mythic knowledge is really power. So I agree in principle shattering swords of honorable opponents is not a right action for a humakti. But you can shatter it if they are chaotic, follow Yanafal Tarnils or are just cheating, and attacking 2 on one could be said to be cheating... If they have other weapons, and they are not humakti or members of an associate cult, you could argue they are not worthy of using a sword. I still think that unless it is an extremely lethat sword, or you do not actually want to kill the enemy, it is little effect for a high risk act. Shattering all the enemies weapons would be more appropiate for Issaries, or even Earth (Harmony deities), but I would argue killing the unarmed foes would be a disorderly action, and could have consequences. Still getting used to RQ:G, but I am thinking of adjusting runic affinities in the case of succesful DI, as the divine acting through you should be a momentous event, depending on how the intervention fits with the conceding god runes. Including, as in what you do with your unarmed foes, the aftermath of the power use. So a discordant effect could still be conceded, as you are paying the power cost, but it could also cost you some of your Truth affinity, if we stay with Humakt. Choosing a mythically appropiate effect would reinforce it. This is clearly a work in progress, as I get familiar with the rules interactions. I also allow enemies DI, though only rune levels use it with any frequency. That is another reason why we set up house rules and limits in advance. Normal people surrender or flee in dire straits.

The thread is moving fast. Going back to the original question, it would depend on the motivations of the character. BG and Ernalda, though both are Earth deities, and friendly to each other, have quite opposed runic associations. So for a non-fully committed initiate, who does not wish to lose her fertility magic, I would keep them separate. She wants to defend the earth or avenge herself on someone, but not to devote herself to the death aspect. But for someone that decides to fully commit to Babeester Gor, I am sure that there are ceremonies to make her an Avenger, and transfer the Ernalda rune points to Babeester Gor, and her non fertility magic as well. Though power gamers will see the long term benefits of separate runepools, for a normal person functionality, it is better to have just one, bigger, runepool, and only one serious commitment rather than two. If you want to use magic, 50/50 runic associations are risky, and I do not see you as a typical Ernalda initiate with 20% Fertility, at least one that will join the most important ceremonies for the clan. It would be possible, focusing on the earth, but most of your sisters will pity you and your partial experience of the goddess bounty. As well, although BG does not have disorder as her sister Maran, I do not see the typical BG as particularly harmonious, except for temple guards, so that could be a problem as well. You can make work practically any combination, but some require a lot of stretching and bending, so make the player work for it.

Taking things slowly. I just learned there was a socializing section in the forum. If you check the profile, I joined in 2019 when I suddenly noticed Runequest was back in Chaosium's hands, but I was quite busy at the time, so only three weeks ago, as I started changing my MRQ game to RQ:G, I started reading the forum, followed almost immediately by knee-jerk posting. Old habits return fast, helped by many familiar names from a quarter century ago. Main interests here are Glorantha and Runequest. If you search for Jose Ramos (not to confuse with Doyle Ramos-Tavener, who is a totally different person) in the old Glorantha Digest you can find my old posts and under that name a few contributions to paper zines in the 90s. I left when Hero Wars started. A personal aversion to Mr. Laws' game style. Which surely makes me a grognard (I have wargamed far longer than roleplayed, both cardboard and miniatures).

I have that issue, and really loved Jon Quaife's "A Tale to Tell", starring Muriah of Borderlands fame, the barren red headed shaman you mention. I was a bit upset when it was reissued in "Shadows on the Borderland", even with the great quality of that supplement, because I really liked the WD artwork and details. As for the rules, I only have the GW rulebooks, most US supplements but no rules, and French editions of the US RQ3 I missed (Genertela and Land of Ninja), so the GW disorder is second nature to me. My GW hardcovers have held much better than the AH boxes and softcovers, mainly because they are held with books rather than the squashed piles of wargame boxes, and for the 20 year old me, the full color and nice illustrations, even if most came straight from White Dwarf were a big plus.

A well developed humakti will usually steal the spotlight in most combats, and that is ok, it is their thing. We allow replacement characters to be at the same power level as the other characters, so death is painful but not terrible. Everybody accepted the increased mortality of humakti as par for the course, and some players play the same humakti time and time again, with slight cosmetic variations. Our own house rule would not allow DI to roll back time (for obvious mythical reasons), so when you DI is important. Shattering the foe's sword seems a bit petty for a DI, unless it is a powerful weapon. Many people would prefer surrender and ransom than rolling DI. In our game a Humakti could ask for healing only if they are still alive at that point. After you roll the damage dice and the damage is decapitation, it is ressurrection, not healing. So when you see the critical and location head, is when you ask Humakt for a little more time. But this is our own standard, and one I am sure will not change in RQ:G.

I would say in Sartar most men will remain in Orlanth their whole lives, but menopause is mythically a big change for women (as it is in the RW), and why the age progression has that additional step for women. I agree that more men join TKT than other earth cults, for the reason posted above, but they are still a small minority, usually elder men who have lost their families. They are close to death, they have lost their main orlanthi purpose (sustaining the family) but they can still help the clan. IMG that allows their land, if any, to revert to someone that can work it. If younger or a warrior, Humakt could be a choice, but you cannot do that after a certain age. As long as your famly needs you, and can support you, Orlanth still fills the needs of family and clan, even if you are old. Returning to Asrelia, I would say that in a landed household (what we used to call carls) one of the elder women will pick up the mantle of Asrelia, usually an active widower or a natural leader/meddler. The whole household pitches for initiation. Many women will stay with Ernalda even after menopause, as their daughters and husband(s) still need their help and wisdom, and widows will gravitate to Ty Kora Tek. As long as you have Orlanth as a husband, you can still feel like Ernalda. I imagine things are much more complex in Esrolia, with plenty of subcults, associated cults and secret societies to devote your energy. In urban environments Asrelia will be more plentiful, as she may well be the head of a business (accountant/manager) while her extended family actually works at it. So shops, crafters and traders will usually have an Asrelian in a position of responsibility. I would expect that in this case not all of them will have gone through menopause, but at least they will no longer have responsibilities with kids, so they can mythically progress from Ernalda to Asrelia.

I would recommend having this discussion with the player of the humakti character before it is needed, mainly to clarify whether the player will accept the intervention, if another player does so, and if a humakti ally spirit will do so. I have known a few humakti characters that refuse being saved because the character would not do so, and in one memorable case, staying alive by Humakt's will till the enemy were dispatched and then dropping dead. Character death can be a very emotive moment, and it is better in cases where for roleplaying reasons a character, whether PC or NPC, may refuse salvation, to avoid frustration and unnecessary arguments. In my experience humakti are usually either roleplayers that often, depending on their geas, will refuse to ask for DI to be healed, or power players that will certainly ask for it. So it needs to be clear what is your own interpretation of what Humakt will grant, and whether the character will accept it. I can imagine the frustration of an orlanthi (this came up in such a discussion) that justifies as their leader to DI to heal a humakti companion, to have the humakti (the same one that asked just to survive enough to defeat the enemy) kill himself after the battle ends, as the player said he would do. That way everyone was psyched up for the glorious death we knew was likely. Players are all different, but in similar ways.

I agree with the spirit cult, but we have the typical problem between game mechanics (or monomyth) and subjective character perception. From a mechanics perception, it would be just a spirit cult that offers access to the spell Cremate dead, and that with maybe 10 cremators can handle the normal death rate, but will have trouble if there is a war. Adding assistants, apprentices, a few priestesses and diggers for the earth rites, and we have a community of a few dozen people that could handle the County's dead bodies, small enough not to appear in cult statistics. From a subjective perspective, you may have Enverinus as the secret name of the spirit that gives the Cremate power, because that is a cool link with the wider mythology, but the rituals will be Praxian influenced from the dark times, and those that are initiated in it are ritually not allowed to be Yelmalio initiates. I agree that in time of conflict they may well trade with Pavis or the elves in the garden for dead wood, to speed up the cremations. Back to mechanics, restricted from Yelmalio, due to the use of fire, the corpse handlers, male and female, may well be Ty Kora Tek cultists as the basic framework. That way they can attend to most corpses in the county. The cremation spirit may be associated, in this particular case, with TKT as a servant/helper. Surely they are also friendly with some Zola Fel cultists that handle the river people dead, probably by offering them to the river. So the subjective view will be secretive death cultists, with strange and frightening powers and friends. The following question is how do the rest of the people treat the handlers of the dead. With the preeminence of tradition and separation of functions, I would propose they are respected but isolated from the majority of the population. They do not join most of the community ceremonies, holding their own, so they are outsiders, as is typical for those who handle dead bodies, but both the access, even if limited, to fire magic and the secrecy of the dead rites means they are apart from the typical Sun county citizens. The Yelm connection makes Ressurrection IMG more common and a joyful celebration, and there will be some ritual appeasement of TKT for releasing the dead back to the living. The discussion with the healers is also important because you cannot ressurrect a cremated body, so that must be decided, possibly with heavy political leaning from the Count and his court. Finally, connecting with the shamans thread, probably some friendly Praxians (Impala?) shamans or even a local Daka Fal shaman may support them in case of spirit trouble or possession, although it is possible Ty Kora Tek may well have her own powers over spirits. We will see soon. Strong connection with the healers, specially with the possibility of Ressurrection for a few selected dead, but also with the transfer of bodies from one to the other. The connection may well be a rivalry between them. Lore fumble with the Fireblades. Just shows I need to reread more and write less.

The other factor is that with a good worshipper base, cults offer more services and benefits. With primitive societies, shamans are your main magic. In big cities (that may have as many shamans as a whole praxian clan) they are still only a small fraction of the magic available. 0.1% in a population of 10,000 and 1% in a population of 1,000 come both to 10. The 10,000 add a lot other priests, magicians, and wonderworkers. A high population base has a magic of its own. The shamans will be also more appreciated in a primitive clan, and that usually allows them, by community support, to become more powerful, and to share more widely the magic with the clan. Also in conflict with "primitives" is when the "civilized" will face shamanic magic as opponents, entrenching the image that shamans are primitive.

I would prefer to have a small group of Cremators, that worship almost like a cult spirit Enverinus, as indicated above, to get access to Cremate Dead. In Glorantha I prefer magic in religious matters. However when reading the question, I had a vision of a file of templars casting fireblade on their pikes, stabbing the corpse, and maintaining the spell till it is burnt to a crisp... Military honors.

That brings me memories of playing Dragon Pass, the Avalon Hill remake of White Bear & Red Moon. Sacrificing a unit was the requirement to recruit Delecti.

Going to the Real World, there are several urban cultures that have kept shamanistic paractices, and in some cases such as China they are even called shamans in translated works. They are always tied up with ancestor worship, but also propitiation (hungry ghosts, for instance). As such, cultures need some way to deal with restless spirits, so they will have cults specialized in spirit control, or they will have shamans. Or both. Except in the west. Sorcerous ghostbusters are the solution to all your spirit infestations. They are specialists, with only fractions of a percentage of practitioners, so small volumes, such as a few shamans per city would be enough in most cases. The Pelorians have several mixed shamanistic-theistic practices, the Orlanthi have kolati, so I am sure Esrolia has some earth associated shamans. I also had a wandering Man-of-all based on the Taoist swordsman of A Chinese Ghost Story, as a ghost troubleshooter.