French Desperate WindChild

Thanks to share your ideas ! In fact the questions are : do you want a loyal thane god ? do you want an horseman god ? do you want a fire god ? For the horseman aspect, any hyalor subcult in any war god would propose something interesting, but in fact, do we need any rune spell dedicated to horse to be a horseman ? I don't think so As a loyal thane, I would consider Humakt and Orlanth as it. Honour is Orlanth too. And Orlanth as so many personalities that you may find one as the loyal protector I would not create an elmal cult (= a fire dissident) in the storm pantheon as a loyal thane Just because it was and now it was proven that Elmal was Yelmalio. However if I "had" I would give them Sunspear as only offensive rune spell (so the opposite of you 🙂 ) and some geas to never learn any offensive air spell (so no thunderbolt, no lightning) even if they are Orlanth or other initiates too (Just to see the "dichotomy") However If I wanted some "foreign" god as loyal protector in Orlanth's tribe, as Elmal is now Yelmalio, I would call him Rigsdal (or a star captain). Weird magic, weird values but the one who stops any intruder, organize the protection of the boundaries. Without the cults book (if there is something about Rigsdal, I don't know), I would just propose the part of the warrior way, maybe.. if there is, the supply activities, but not the strategist (that's Humakt)

same for me that's true, however, I disagree on one (or two) points there : "have to be selective" well you know my english so maybe I m not fine there : a fervent worshipper doesn't have to be selective, should not "select" (= "choose") there is no choice if you trully follow the way (I just think about the mandalorian when I write it) so no the 100% dedicated humakti doest not choose, he must take what is right. What I mean there, of course a (fervent) humakti warrior will take morale if he sacrifices one pow, because it makes sense. Now will an ironsmith dedicated to his forge inside the biggest temple (the most secure) of the sword will always learn fighting secret ? If you follow the way of the steel, and if there is no reason to learn how to severe the spirit from the body because you have hundred people, the most famous warrior of any time here to protect you, is it really important ? the key word for me then is the @Shiningbrow "aspect" Then my position is a merge between you an Shiningbrow: I will follow you if you change god by aspect. Yes a fervent humakti ironsmith must know all the secrets of Humakt's smith aspect. The others spells are sometimes opportunities or needs (a smith in a secret place with no people to protect him, should do what he can to protect the place) or waste of time I don't know, no study there, I m a pure agnostic, no faith, but fear there is nothing and hope there is something. But in all cases my view is: 1) a lot of people, the majority, worship with the hope to obtain something they will no gain without the worship (how many people who did not worship when they were young start to worship when they fill the years condemn) 2) the fervent trust enough their god(s) to not ask, because they "know" their god(s) will do what is right, and them, poor people cannot understand everything, that's their god(s) attributes Note I may be influenced by my homeland cultural heritage, that's sure for example (don't see it in play but why not) for any reason, a stormbull worshipper can cast only one spell to fight this chaotic monster. There is no choice, one spell or it is over. And he casts "shield". Will the Stormbull casts shield and nothing else before when he meets a chaotic monster ? would berserker be more appropriate ? Will Storm bull think to protect himself before destroying chaos ? this humakti - or any honorable god-dess worhipper - knows (by divination or any thing) that this baby will become the destroyer of his clan in 5 years (don't ask why and how the child will do it, the only thing, there is no chaos joker there) What will do the god ? (maybe Humakt will kill the baby, you may know some myth about that, but there is at least one god who will... accept it as a fate, that is Destiny you see)

I agree with you too that's the paradox 🙂 the issue I have (but it depends how you play the rune spell) is that players often use the spells like they want and the question then is... Is it what the god would do in the same circonstance ? would he use this spell or this one ?

From my perspective you sacrifice pow to your deity and that's the most important if there is in the temple you sacrifice possiblity to learn a spell you don't know, you can (not mandatory, you choose to learn the secret) but if you know everything, or if the spells you don't know are not teached there, or for any reason you don't want to learn a spell, then you don't learn any spell, but you can continue to sacrifice POW (and gain rune pool if not the limit) so you learn a 3 points rune spell by sacrificing 1 POW. If you don't have enough RP you know the spell but can't use it. but you can sacrifice in one time 3 RP (or more) and learn the spell, 2 others if you wish, and raise your RP A fervent worshiper will sacrifice pow without any gain expectation. You don't bargain, you offer

as other, at least the hero soul in the other world, and some kind of worship then is there a big difference between hero, super hero, demi god, god ? not sure of course some are more powerful than other but does that mean they have some new characteristic ? for example, in the white bull campaign, Jeff called a nymph goddess. That's fine for me: she is worshipped, she has big powers and that's all. And from a malkioni perspective it is exactly that, there is only one "true" god, the invisible one. In my opinion it is more a question of cult / access (or from a game design perspective : runepool ) when people worship you, are some of them initiate of you only or of another god ? If I must be a Yelm initiate to worship you, well your not a god but an hero If I can find your temple, and, being initiate, have access only to your magic, hey you maybe a god ! the death may be an other criteria : once you are dead (if you are; or if you prefer once you are not anymore in the mundane world), how can I contact you ? if it is only by the cult of ancestor or some cults of death like Ty Kora Tek, well, runelord or not, you are just one guy among a lot If I can join you from another cult, you are probably a hero

to go deeper, let's talk about associated cult I m not sure of my understanding so do not hesitate if there is a mistake : As @Squaredeal Sten said that is your god's runepool you use to cast spell from the associated cults : you are initiate of Orlanth, you learn Lock from Issaries, as associated god. but life is life and one day you become initiate of Issaries (in addition) then you sacrifice to Issaries and learn Create Market if you cast Create Market, you use Issaries runepool if you cast Lock, you use Orlanth runepool (my logic is "where did you sacrifice POW to learn the spell ?") now... because you want to challenge your GM... you decide to learn Lock with Issaries directly So if you cast Create Market, you use Issaries runepool If you cast Lock, you choose if you use Issaries runepool or Orlanth runepool (same logic "where did you sacrifice POW") Am I right ?

O...M....G... of glorantha So I did not understand, and I don't know why ! thanks a lot for the info, and of course it was so visible that I did not notice it. So why I have this completeness concept in my mind is another question. Eurmal may be behind it

i disagree with myself but I would find a compromise my first I would say not a divine spell because, if I understood well rbom is "complete". So yes a spirit spell but it is very too long my second I would say a divine subcult spell, why not mgf and my last I - the conciliator -, would say that the clan / tribe has to perform every year a ritual with the local river nymph (like in sun county supplement if you have), and if this ritual (a little not too dangerous heroquest) is a success, the heroquestor learn the ability to cast the spiritual spell (only the successful heroquestors know, that's the benefit of the Alliance) this spiritual spell then would be cast by one of our heroquestors (one per ritual) on the ship he leads and all the crew will have the gain the two restrictions are : - only one ship / crew by caster - only effective when this year heroquest is a success so the clan has to decide who to send : - not the same one every year,to have more paddles able to do it ? - or some already successfull to renew the alliance (because the spell is effective with the heroquest success) and opponent would (if they know the local secret) try to reduce the rare people able to cast the spell (and of course would try to block the heroquestor). Some hook then for scenario

wouu thanks for that, i didn't read this thread 🙂 From my perspective I understand that as "the one who learn to become god" (or to learn to get the power of the god) so there is not a relationship between teacher and student. More something like spy / scholar / scientist / thief. then add good / evil / mad depending on your belief on their goal in french I read "Erudit de l'ambigu" as @Joerg noticed, but there is /was another version : "apprenti des dieux" (so the gods have an apprentice, the GL) but with a little ambiguity you may understand "the GL apprenticeship is to become a god" (= apprenti dieu)

that's the most incomprehensible thing I find in Glorantha. How some..one described as a god (then able to decide, to lead army, to target, etc...) can be "the void", how its own intelligence, a structure, can resist to itself the most void of the world ? so you're right : there is probably something behind what is told by the priests Eurmal's tale Kajabor is the chaos god who brings with him the "purest" primal chaos form, thanks to his magic, he keeps the primal chaos in a magical net. Kajabor uses it as the strongest weapon of massive destruction ever seen, but never remembered, thanks to oblivion Wakboth, known as the probably the most jealous god of the world, wanted this power for himself and fought Kajabor Yes Wakboth was the winner, but the fight was so enormous, that at the end of the battle, too tired, he fell asleep, the chaos net without guardian. Then Eurmal, as usual, tooks this opportunity, and decided to destroy this threat. If there is no world, there is no joke to do after all. And we know some of Eurmal powers. He ate the chaos net and no one anymoe was able to use it to destroy the last existing forces but the void is a very powerful thing, and Eurmal had some difficulties to digest it. That's why he joined the lightbringer. To find a way to stop the gastroenterities... But he was unable to tell his trouble to anyone, even Chalana. We understand now why he left the group, just because he had to... defecate, and that's why the world was near to be destoyed. At the end, when Orlanth and Yelm met, A last time, Eurmal vomited on Ginna jar the net,last thing he had in his stomach. It transformed Ginna jar who then was called Arachne Solara thanks to the bright net, coated by Eurmal's digestive juice. This digested net was however powerful but not pure destruction, it was able to fix the most part of the chaos in the world, able to save the world. But the gods refused to consider Eurmal as their savior, and refused to teach their worshippers that the world was saved by the trickster's vomit. So they made a compromise with Eurmal. They said that Arachne Solara destroyed kajabor and with their both powers created the net and time. Eurmal had to never say what happend, and, in exchange, obtained the protection of the king's god.

I have always played that casting a sleep on a person standing does not harm her. [arg I haven't the good words] I imagine the target as instantly become exceptionnaly "relaxed" and fall like a rag doll. So with few risk to harm anything, and I don't consider that a little pain* is not an issue for Chalana, it is always better than a big scar with a sword, right ? Of course even a rag doll will have issue if falling from a cliff or to lava.... so let the CA cultist be smart enough to use the spell when it is relevant *I haven't the english expression for "un petit bobo", when you confort a young child when she has a blood drop on her knee

so true 🙂 then my "own" hallucinate a) it works b) it is cursed c) it is powerful (maybe too influenced by king of dragon pass however) use case : eurmali hallucinates a sword, she hits the opponent and rolls 10 dammage. the opponent is wounded for 10 dammage (don't forget the armor), it is real, "of course ?!" there is no sword for an observer, but there is dammage. however, the sword may breaks, or the wound may send some blood to the eurmali, now blind for 1 or 2 rounds, or is so heavy that the eurmali is projected few meters away use case : eurmali in the see, she hallucinates to be in / on a ship. the observer's reality is there are big waves then depending where the eurmali is in / on the ship : --> she is in the hold, she will not meet any water, however the observer will see her under water.. but alive --> she is on the deck, she will be sprayed by the waves, and would have to roll dex or anything, to keep her balance. the observer will see her on water (more or less).. with some trouble but alive --> she is on the top of the mast, she will be shaken and if not attached, would have to roll str or anything to not fall. Of course if she falls, there is wood not water to welcome her... The obersever will see her floating in the air, but not like an orlanthi, gracefully.. no ridiculously, and if she falls, yes in the water but with weird wounds , not done by water and then the curse --> in the hold ? why not some fishes (or a shark ?) enter "by magic" in the hold, of course not with all its abilities to fight or do what they want, as they are "on air" but disturbing and dangerous. After all, the eurmali thought to protect herself from water not shark 😛 (of course if the player hallucinates with the intention to protect the pc from water and sharks... well some rocks here, and the ship runs aground) --> on the deck, on the top od the mast ? maybe the see were calm before hallucinate and now it seems Magasta himself is charging the ship (the rolls are enough), or if the see was already angry before hallucinate, maybe it is not only a "natural" phenomenon, why not because a kraken was here, maybe driven by some merfolk, maybe one will be seduced by the eurmali... where will go the trickster then, living with a half fish is perhaps fine in the abyss, who knows ? I m not saying the curse must dissuade the player, just that, as it should be (imo) a very powerfull spell, it should lead to unexpected consequences (why not some heroquest, maybe the merfolk can provide help if the eurmali or all the group do something for them) could be few minutes of play in a weird situation, or a hook for a scenario or more and there is no reason to "fix" any logic issue between the observer and the eurmali for me. Eurmal is and too, not only means in this case that logic cannot explain what happen, it is not a disorder against some mundane clan, city, science, knowledge law, it is disorder against the reality. So there is a moment (the spell duration) when the reality is incomplete, or illogic, or "chaotic" (not in the gloranthan evil sense, more in some "chronicles of Amber" sense - thanks, Mr Zelazny -) means in this case that when the spell is finished, the reality is again "One" but is a "merge" of the hallucinate and the observer's realities, so there is impact. But again, I accept the distortion because I understand the spell as powerfull. Not just a protection spell able to preserve the eurmali for some time and back to the hard reality after. A "true" change

Several books with same title but different colors ? maybe only some test to decide what are the good covers ?

yes I have a very simple point then (from a gloranthan perspective) that's just you are dead and some entities eat you in the same way that people eat flesh from dead (who are unable to fight then), fungus eat flesh from dead then how many cultures consider that eating flesh is chaotic ? so no, i don't consider fungus are chaotic, they are just as others, they eat so in my opinion, disease is chaotic, because before Malia and the trio did what they did, there was no disease. (hum is it canon ? don't know) So before chaos entered in Glorantha, there was no disease, disease = chaos (ok that could be called a sophism, I agree^^)

i want the pdf after I have it I will ask for more, of course, but now, what I want is the pdf 🙂

another option is that family is so highly, in my opinion, a background point (allowing players to build their characters, their passions, their changes during the play) that i would not recommand to use any dice to determine what happens. @Akhôrahil's word "outcome" is really appropriate. And it shows exactly what I dislike when discussing about named npc (family, gods, protectors...) No problem to roll how many people die or live in Pavis, or any tribe, or what the fields will provide (after all if there is a crisis, it is good to let the players solve the crisis) but for 3 people, without option ("the dices said this person is dead this year, so... next )... sssssss 🙂 That doesn't mean there is no crisis with named npc, just that these crisis should happen because there is (for the players) something to play. A human decision to start something.

from a game design perspective I agree with you, the one with the more mp is probably the winner (except tactics like @PhilHibbs and @Shiningbrow note it, so maybe powerful but not too much) however, from a background perspective : sword transe = you become one with your sword, you serve your sword, you serve the Sword, you are one with the sword. How/Why will you ban the better way to know who is the best Sword ? so imo, i would say that humakti must use sword transe to prove their "sword affinity" and some choose to dismiss their oponent, to prove that their opponent's affinity is a little bit ... tenuous. Then two tactics I can see to open the fight: offensive = sword transe (hoping your opponent will not hurt you during the cast) and attack; defensive = attack before, without magic, then dismiss sword transe, hoping your armor will protect you, then show what it is a true sword man

yes but that doesn't mean you cannot join another cult if you are both initiate of Humakt and Telmor, and are able (no auth, loyalty, don't know) to join both rituals of Humakt and Telmor, that's fine there is no issue with the rules then. I think that, in Sartar, most telmori (without T, just the people from the tribe) initiates of Humakt are bodyguards of the royal family. Now are they choosen among the Telmori (with a T, initiates of Telmor) or among those who were not "welcome" by Telmor ? I don't know. Both options are possible : they are old oaths from the tribe to Sartar (so validated by Telmor) to choose bodyguards among Telmori, but there are too some interest to send those who are not Telmor initiates: not "hazardous change-shape" bodyguard (interest for the royal family) they have a future, even if it is not in the Telmor way, good for the parents/friends, and that's fit with the Sartar alliance, good for the Telmori clans

Note there is a big difference between Harreck and your situation : the fight with the bear was not in the mundane world. So in my opinion, when you « kill » the dog in mundane world you must follow the rules of the mundane world: if you don’t provide a body with eyes the spirit cannot see (of course with command it to leave the enchantment, do the job then go back to the enchantment, the spirit can « see » outside the enchantment) however in my glorantha there are solution 1) you kill the dog, the spirit goes back to hell, you keep the skin. Then you heroquest to hell, you find the spirit, bargain fight anything with it And there is some magical effect 2) you kill the dog, capture the spirit with the mundane restriction . Then you heroquest to hell, find the lord of the spirit, fight bargain seduce oath anything and now the spirit is bounded to you in any way you want. in all cases I agree with you: any « alliance » generates mutual oath (drink flesh blood, kill enemy of blabla, sacrifice pow, … ) and passion more powerful is the gain for the adventure more passions (number and %) the adventurer change (at the end of the day, that is a kind of possession and the. You don’t recognize who is who, like Harreck and the bear)

so lucky ! cf my eurmali answer 😛

As I play: yes the eurmali hallucinated (= found) a door, a hole, what you want as a gate, and "if she wanted to go through", well she succeeds, end of the hallucination she is really somewhere she named. Of course others did not see anything, except she was here, then she was not anymore. however... it is eurmal magic right ?... so maybe it is not exactly what she expected, but somewhere with big or few difficulties. Maybe she arrived in the good location but exactly where there are ennemies or any difficulties. Maybe the door drived her to the local jail... Maybe it is not the good location.. One example of joke I have in mind to imagine it was a french TV show (decades ago) where the price was a travel : - "un voyage à l'île Maurice" (Mauritius Island) OR - " un voyage à Lille, chez Maurice" (the city, north of France, reputation not so true but for the joke, cold and rainy, where Maurice is the firstname of some local Hotel / Hotel keeper) In all cases, I consider eurmali as desperate / cursed people, they may succeed, but not like they plan. Any magic they use to win must put them in another challenge. I would say (but it's me) anything unable to "know", "feel", "believe" what happen is not possible. So of course gear, other eurmali, unconscious people, mad people (depends on madness), and French, as impossible is not French 😉

Hello sir, don't be afraid if you will not find the "true" answer 🙂 i always works with analogy for this kind of things: so Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon) = Create Wall of Flames but your spell is a little bit more efficient : 3m square (CWF) versus 9m square (LS) then your option "saves" 6mp nothing (CWF) versus "struck effect" (LS) then here your option saves a complete spell = 2pts (summon air two) so I would add combine ( 2 spells effects of Air, Summon) and consider that the basis is 3m long, or 9m long with a diameter of a finger, the one you use to point out the direction. so the cost is 3 and not 2mp (basis) but you save 1 mp ( 2 spells = 2+2, 1 combined spell = 3) Sorcerer's Shield (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination) your proposal is very expensive as @Godlearner said Compare with ward against weapons 4 points = 60% / 50% / 40% / 20% chances to cancel a 2pt / 4pt / 6pt / 10pt dammage attack when your spell offer 20-40% chances to block 1 dammage so in my opinion, if a sorcerer wants to "fight with a shield" it is more a kind of summon a transparent shield = create sensation the sorcerer then will use its own shield skill to manipulate it, like the broadsword example and the basis 3mp is enough mp to have the protection of a small (enc 1) medium (enc 2) or large (enc 3) shield no need of movement combination, in my opinion, but if you consider that 3mp is not enough to summon a shield, add combination 🙂 Magic Mote (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination) as the spell allows a lot of distant attacks for the same price, I consider it a little bit cheap compared with other dammage spells, like even your lightning stroke spell. so as I understand it is a kind of "flying thing" hitting the opponent, then going somewhere else to hit another opponent (or the same) until the end of the spell so the runes seems to me ok, but the price is the same (more or less 1 point maybe) than a only one attack spell, that's my issue nothing to propose however, unfortunatly 🙂

there are a lot of conceptions there (without speaking of the rules and official answer) 1) is extension a spell/prayer/xxx by itself from a gloranthan perspective ? in my opinion, no. It is not a specific effect you obtain from your god, it is a longer effect than usual you obtain from the god offering you the effect of the other spell : you don't ask Orlanth to have more time to do anything you want, you ask Orlanth to be protected by his shield for a longer time the spell denomination (imo), is just a game design, don't add more rules "just" for that, because at the end of the day, adding time is just "use more rune points". 2) are gods just runes or personalities ? in my opinion / game, they are personalities, sentient non playable characters, not just resources you can manipulate (if you want that, play a sorcerer, yes it is harder, but you can do what you want by manipulating primal runes, not bargaining with spirits or worshipping greater entities) Will Yelm consider that his bright, immaculate power can be used by any miserable worshippers to obtain some blessing of his lecherous brother, or even barbarian gods ? no some will answer differently : a spell is a spell, if players buy a spell they can use it like they want, when they want, they have the spell, like spirit spell or sorcery spell, and that's all.

just a change for me : "if I believe there is a hole there, there is for me !" yes the eurmali would see a hole and would be able to go beyond, but, for the others, they don't see, there is not for them so the big question with this troll and his maul is more : as this maul exists for anyone except the eurmali, should we call him "shrodinger" ? convinced to be alive for the eurmali, clearly destroyed for others ? where and how is he ? however as there is a duration, we just need to wait and open the box to see that, at the end of the spell the eurmali is dead

c) heroic spell I would play that if a character is able to get an extension-like heroric spell, she is then able to cast it with any of her spells from any runepool but the key word is runepool, do what you want in one runepool, nothing with two runepools except issaries trade spells (in my opinion)