Failed Climb rolls

[Runeblogger]

According to the rules, when you fail a Climb roll, you just do not know how to continue climbing. So it's actually just a matter of time, unles you fumble, of course.

I wonder if you have tried making this a bit more tense by adding fatigue.

For example: for every 3 Climb rolls attempted, whether successful or not, you need to successfully roll under CONx5 or else you get a -20% to all the next Climb rolls until you can rest on a level surface for at least 5 minutes. This way, if you are constantly failing Climb rolls after the first successful one, your chances of fumbling and falling down increase. Would you consider that to be too harsh/gritty?

[Bill the barbarian]

7 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

I wonder if you have tried making this a bit more tense by adding fatigue.

 

All the time, back in the day it added dramatic tension as the seconds and fatigue points ticked by and as the climb rolls continued to fail you would also note that a fumble was always waiting. Spoiler for Stealing the Eye demo scenario below...

I like how the demo Stealing the Eye tied the climb roll (one for all the climb) into being able to successfully pull the gem intact from the statue as a method to add tension

cheers

[deleriad]

Well it only matters if it matters. For example, if you are trying to climb in the middle of a scenario and you only have a certain amount of time to make your climb. If you fail then the GM might say "you can't see a safe hand hold anywhere. Do you want to wait 5 minutes while you look around for a different way up or do you want to try again right now at -20%?" That kind of thing. If the player tries again immediately and fails you can say "looks like it's impossible in these conditions. I guess you could take a chance and try again right now at -40%. If you fail this time you fall." Player thinks. "How far would I fall?" GM says "Hard to say. If you make a luck roll you'll fall the equivalent of 3d6 metres before stopping on a ledge. Otherwise, I'll roll 3D6*10 metres." Player realises that's death staring them in the face etc.

On the other hand if you are spending a day trying to navigate a high pass and fail a climb roll the GM says, "you spend the day but can't find a way through. Try again tomorrow."

Which is all to say that the results of a failed roll don't have to be death. Sometimes, it just time. That's fine until time is critical.

Edited September 25, 2019 by deleriad
corrected grammar typo

[Runeblogger]

That's food for thought. What if another character goes first and succeeds in all the rolls? Could she then tell her comrades where the footholds are? So they get a +50% or no roll is needed?

[Bill the barbarian]

30 minutes ago, deleriad said:

Well it only matters if it matters

26 minutes ago, deleriad said:

On the other hand if you are spending a day trying to navigate a high pass and fail a climb roll the GM says, "you spend the day but can't find a way through. Try again tomorrow."

And if you can’t go up, there’s always the depths of Moria! A little Khazad-dûm anyone? I like your thinking of using it not only as a common sense rule and a method of crafting a tale but as a tool to build tension. Three benefits for one line of thought, works for me!

Cheers

[Atgxtg]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:00 PM, Runeblogger said:

I wonder if you have tried making this a bit more tense by adding fatigue.

I have, or at least have played games where fatigue was incorporated into it. But it really comes down to the nature of the adventure and the pupose of the climbing relation to it. It's the same reason why most tasks are resolved in one roll while combat is broken down into rounds. It the climb is supposed to be a major part of the adventure then I might use a more detailed approach, and break it up into diffient stages or "legs" with multiple actions. If not, then probably not.

 

On 9/20/2019 at 7:00 PM, Runeblogger said:

For example: for every 3 Climb rolls attempted, whether successful or not, you need to successfully roll under CONx5 or else you get a -20% to all the next Climb rolls until you can rest on a level surface for at least 5 minutes. This way, if you are constantly failing Climb rolls after the first successful one, your chances of fumbling and falling down increase. Would you consider that to be too harsh/gritty?

Possibly. I think it depends on just how far/much climbing a character can do in one attempt, and how hard/demanding the climb is. 

 

9 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

That's food for thought. What if another character goes first and succeeds in all the rolls? Could she then tell her comrades where the footholds are? So they get a +50% or no roll is needed?

Something like that, although maybe +50% would be too much. Again I think it comes down to how difficult the climb is to begin with. Sometimes someone can show you how "easy" something is, yet you still can't do it.

[Bill the barbarian]

19 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

That's food for thought. What if another character goes first and succeeds in all the rolls? Could she then tell her comrades where the footholds are? So they get a +50% or no roll is needed?

If  the assist is considered to be equal or near to equal to a critical augmentation, yes, by all means plus 50. Otherwise either rule that the successes give a simple augment success at +20 and no further rolls are required for those who follow our intrepid first climber, or allow a chance to use another roll (against climb, lore, passion (family) {don’t fail this one causing a death—the penalty of grief!} or orate, perhaps?) to improve the augment success and have a 2nd shot at special +30 and the critical... the exalted plus 50!.

Did I see the word scene above, I thought I had. I like the idea of an action roll depending on a scene (or is it a scene depending on a roll, whatever?) rather than an empirical distance, say a roll every  10m. The empirical has its place but again story first to my way of thinking.

Cheers

[Runeblogger]

If I remember correctly, the current rules demand a roll for every 5 meters on a vertical climb.

[Akhôrahil]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:00 AM, Runeblogger said:

According to the rules, when you fail a Climb roll, you just do not know how to continue climbing. So it's actually just a matter of time, unles you fumble, of course.

I wonder if you have tried making this a bit more tense by adding fatigue.

I like the Call of Cthulhu method of Pushing. You can try again if you can motivate how,  but this time the price of failure is increased...

I wouldn’t just allow retries until success - if you fail, you already tried your best, so you will have to come up with something new first. (An exception to this might be climbing in combat situations, where there’s an inherent problem with failing and what mostly matters is how fast you can do it.)

[Akhôrahil]

21 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

That's food for thought. What if another character goes first and succeeds in all the rolls? Could she then tell her comrades where the footholds are? So they get a +50% or no roll is needed?

I would say this would just mean augmenting their Climb skills with yours, rolling as usual.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[Brootse]

16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I would say this would just mean augmenting their Climb skills with yours, rolling as usual.

This is a nce solution.

[PhilHibbs]

19 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I would say this would just mean augmenting their Climb skills with yours, rolling as usual.

I would probably simplify it, and say that the successful climber's roll acts as an augment. They don't even have to communicate anything to the person following, the follower just has to see where they went and follow their lead. If they still fail, then that means that the first person's route was not suitable for following, maybe due to a dislodged foothold.

[styopa]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:22 PM, deleriad said:

Which is all to say that the results of a failed roll don't have to be death. Sometimes, it just time. That's fine until time is critical.

I think it matters if you consider "climb" as actual climbing vs "climb" as negotiating high passes more of a general skill.

Every time I'm rock climbing time - ie fatigue - is ALWAYS ticking away.