HeroQuest Glorantha starting setting

[Akhôrahil]

33 minutes ago, None said:

Yes something like that. The reason I find separating Dara Happa and the Lunar Empire intersting is that a conflict of three is a lot more dynamic than a conflict of two. It also removes the old 'oppressive empire against gutsy orlanthi rebels' thing that seems far to common with them and I've grown somewhat tired of.

Under at least one interpretation, the "Good Empire" is a breakaway empire consisting of the Lunar Provinces trying to make it on their own. I think that idea is very fascinating, as at least in principle, it could have offered a chance for peace between Sartar and the Good Empire (not that Argrath would accept such a thing, of course).

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 minutes ago, None said:

Yes but while Orlanth and Yelm are sort of aggreable towards each other the orlanthi and Dara Happans are not as far as I know and then there is the natural friction between the sky/fire rune and the storm rune  so you shouldn't get an immediate alliance of two against one.

 

We have mostly the Kerofinelan Orlanthi perspective on this.

The Pelorian Orlanthi appear to have a range of attitudes towards Dara Happa.

And Dara Happa... well, they tend to be imperalist chauvinists so they seem to mostly hold a (culturally generalized) disdain for everyone.

In response though: I can definitely imagine the Lunars, DHans and Carmanians getting various alliances and mercenary contracts with the different Orlanthi groups, and it swinging around almost indefinitely. If that is what you want, of course.

[None]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

1 hour ago, None said:

Yes but while Orlanth and Yelm are sort of aggreable towards each other the orlanthi and Dara Happans are not as far as I know and then there is the natural friction between the sky/fire rune and the storm rune  so you shouldn't get an immediate alliance of two against one.

 

We have mostly the Kerofinelan Orlanthi perspective on this.

The Pelorian Orlanthi appear to have a range of attitudes towards Dara Happa.

And Dara Happa... well, they tend to be imperalist chauvinists so they seem to mostly hold a (culturally generalized) disdain for everyone.

In response though: I can definitely imagine the Lunars, DHans and Carmanians getting various alliances and mercenary contracts with the different Orlanthi groups, and it swinging around almost indefinitely. If that is what you want, of course.

Could work, not exactly what I was goimng for but it does give some very interesting possibilites for orlanthi players. But how does that work with the Lunar Empire wanting to dethrone Orlanth in the middle air?

As for Dara Happans, yes. I do wish they where a bit less one note. Or at lerast have the opportunity to to have a look at their perspective once in a while. Assuming it wasn't to drive home just how one note they are.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, None said:

I know that, I meant as a direct alteration of the setting before character creation or a campain even begins. Not as the act of characters within the story. Although Hero Questing to force Dara Happa and the Lunar Empire apart is an interesting idea.

 

It wasn't clear to me that you meant to alter the background rather than find the niche in the background where this was provided.

But sure, it is possible to overthrow the Lunar Empire into two separate units that unite only at times. This makes the presence (and size) of the Lunar Provinical Army a lot smaller in the early conflicts of the Hero Wars.

In a way, I have always had at least two major factions for the Lunars - e.g. Fazzur (Tarsh) vs. Tatius (Dara Happa), or Fazzur&Sons vs. Pharandros, or Tarsh vs. Sylila.

The empire is already facing two major external foes (Sartar and Pent) and internal unrest (the White Moonies), plus there is the imminent Thaw of Charg releasing bull barbarians into Carmania.

Rather than splitting Lunars and Dara Happans, it might be easier to split off the Carmanians and western Peloria (parts of Doblian and Oronin). Even so, that could be a recent split (as a consequence of the Dragonrise and other recent events in Peloria), or you could re-write history a lot further back.

Weakening the Empire retroactively would make the struggle of the Sartar dynasty weirder, though. Why would the two Pelorian empires have cooperated that much in the conquest and administration of Sartar and the rest of the region?

The empire is about to fracture anyway. Jar-eel has a big apotheosis campaign going on and is preparing the way for her and Moirades' son Phargentes, and Great Sister is going to overthrow the current mask of the Red Emperor.

The problem with the Lunar Empire is that it has a few staunchly Lunar strongholds, which are oddly distributed - the centers from which the Empire was regrown after Sheng's death. Those were the West Reaches (Carmania) and Glamour, Doblian, Sylila, and Torang.

The Eel-ariash have lost Doblian, but they are still in control of Oronin and Oraya and are highly influential in Tarsh. How and where would you introduce a Solar empire in between? It is almost easier to alter the map of the north if you want an independent Dara Happan / Solar faction. Perhaps not Dara Happa, but an urban Arkos Valley civilization?

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Great Sister is going to overthrow the current mask of the Red Emperor

do we ever learn her purpose? she doesn't just asassinate him, she engages in a ritual sacrifice. clearly the intent is to, presumably, purify him of Chaos taint or empower new Egi? He's definitely been a disaster ever since Tork.

The result, of course, is His apparent annihilation. It's the end of the line for our buddy.

[Sir_Godspeed]

39 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

do we ever learn her purpose? she doesn't just asassinate him, she engages in a ritual sacrifice. clearly the intent is to, presumably, purify him of Chaos taint or empower new Egi? He's definitely been a disaster ever since Tork.

The result, of course, is His apparent annihilation. It's the end of the line for our buddy.

He isn't reborn in Phargentes the Younger? So Phargentes is a whole new Red Emperor without being - uh - THE Red Emperor?

I'll admit, most of the "future" stuff is very hazy to me.

[Qizilbashwoman]

8 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

He isn't reborn in Phargentes the Younger? So Phargentes is a whole new Red Emperor without being - uh - THE Red Emperor?

I'll admit, most of the "future" stuff is very hazy to me.

Based on the reborn "Good Empire" and Phargentes weak abilities and lack of apparent Monsoon presence, he appears to be the Red Emperor in name only. He passes the 10 tests to be Emperor of Dara Happa but there's no evidence he's Monsoon at all, and he's rapidly ganked.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Who's the Lunar Emperor who according to Cragspider's reliefs conquers/defeats the Westerners in Fronela or wherever? Is that further down the line?

[Joerg]

27 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Who's the Lunar Emperor who according to Cragspider's reliefs conquers/defeats the Westerners in Fronela or wherever? Is that further down the line?

The Red Emperor in Fronela is Phargentes. And his claim to be Moonson is almost as good as Takenegi's, and much better than any of the previous masks. Like Takenegi, the mortal Phargentes takes on Egi upon his ascension to the throne. Probably including his own father.

[Qizilbashwoman]

31 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Who's the Lunar Emperor who according to Cragspider's reliefs conquers/defeats the Westerners in Fronela or wherever? Is that further down the line?

the Unicorn Broo, I believe. The one in Kralorela is definitely the Unicorn Broo.

[Ian Absentia]

11 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Who's the Lunar Emperor who according to Cragspider's reliefs conquers/defeats the Westerners in Fronela or wherever?

(SHAFT!!)

Can ya dig it?

!i!

[None]

19 hours ago, Joerg said:

21 hours ago, None said:

I know that, I meant as a direct alteration of the setting before character creation or a campain even begins. Not as the act of characters within the story. Although Hero Questing to force Dara Happa and the Lunar Empire apart is an interesting idea.

 

It wasn't clear to me that you meant to alter the background rather than find the niche in the background where this was provided.

I think part of the reason I want to is because it feels to me like the Lunar Empire overwrites the solar civilizations, Which I thinkis a little wastful. I also feel a little sad that Yelm is pushed into the sidelines (again?). He is suposed to be a major god of the setting but it sees like his only real role was to be the Bad Emperor that Orlanth overthrew.

 

The other rerason is that I don't know that much about the Lunar Empire's internal politics, and apprently not about Pent either ( I recognize the name but everything else eludes me, if I ever knew anything). Looking from the outside like this the lunars look like one monolithic power whose main purpose is to give the orlanthi yet another opportunity to be gutsy, righteous rebels, despite Orlanth being the established ruler of the middle air and not some mere upstart anymore.

That said I really like the Lunar Empire's experiments with Chaos for one. I just don't think they need the solar civilizations, they are already their own thing.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, None said:

I think part of the reason I want to is because it feels to me like the Lunar Empire overwrites the solar civilizations, Which I thinkis a little wastful. I also feel a little sad that Yelm is pushed into the sidelines (again?). He is suposed to be a major god of the setting but it sees like his only real role was to be the Bad Emperor that Orlanth overthrew.

 

I have similar feelings on the matter, if it's any consolation. For the Emperor of the Universe, he does have a habit of being sidelined by other deities that take the limelight.

Also, saying "the Storm and Solar pantheons have an ongoing rivalry" is more catchy than saying "the Storm and Solar pantheons have a rivarly, but they also settled some differences on a cosmic scale and abide by certain principles, until the Solar Pantheon was largely coopted by a Lunar pantheon that broke said principles and uh, now there's a Storm-Lunar rivalry with the Solar pantheon in tow".

Okay, I'm exaggerating, but I'm thinking marketing, gosh darn it!

This might very well be the point, but it does feel a little anticlimactic.
 

1 hour ago, None said:

and apprently not about Pent either ( I recognize the name but everything else eludes me, if I ever knew anything)

Pent is the Great Genertelan Steppe. It's not an empire or state, just the wide plaines between Kralorelan and Peloria, where the horse nomads dwell. 

The horse nomads (Pentans) are divided into a number of tribes and tribal coalitions, and most of the hold Solar beliefs, with a strong, patriarchal Sun God in charge (usually named Kargzant, or Yu-Kargzant or whatever). The Grazers of Dragon Pass are descended from them.

The people who are the Pentans in the Modern Age ruled Peloria at the Dawn, but were driven out by the Dara Happans and the Unity Council (Orlanthi+allies) allying. The Dara Happans and most modern Pelorians tend to present them as unjust invaders (and associate them with wanton murder and cannibalism) who were driven out, but if you look closer at the God Time events, the details seem to very strongly suggest that Pentans were in fact very much native to Peloria (people who escaped from the cities during various catastrophies when urban life collapsed). Since then, the Pentans have kind of been looking for ways to re-invade Peloria, and turn its fertile river valleys and irrigated fields back into grazing grounds for their horses. Sheng Seleris is the one who achieved this, for a while, and it's arguably relevant that Sheng Seleris also promoted a kind of mystic, self-torturous interpretation of Solar ideas which made him and his followers to extremely powerful, but extremely brutal, demigods.

There's a minority of Pentans who worship a Storm Pantheon (the Four Winds, which includes analogues of Orlanth, Valind, Urox and Gagarth(?)), but I don't think they are politically too different from their Solar neighbors.

Pentans also have a rivalry with the Beast Riders of Prax, mostly over grazing rights, and mythologically over the role of the horse. Praxians consider the horse unclean, while the Pentans consider the horse the best animal, and some Pentans go to the point of only herding horses and no other animals, whereas normally Pentans will herd cattle and (I think) goats or sheep. This rivalry is less mythologically potent than the rivalry with Peloria though, imho.

I probably repeated stuff you already know, but I thought I'd lump it together for a handy quick overview in case you wanted to get a reasonable feel for them.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[None]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I have similar feelings on the matter, if it's any consolation. For the Emperor of the Universe, he does have a habit of being sidelined by other deities that take the limelight.

Also, saying "the Storm and Solar pantheons have an ongoing rivalry" is more catchy than saying "the Storm and Solar pantheons have a rivarly, but they also settled some differences on a cosmic scale and abide by certain principles, until the Solar Pantheon was largely coopted by a Lunar pantheon that broke said principles and uh, now there's a Storm-Lunar rivalry with the Solar pantheon in tow".

Okay, I'm exaggerating, but I'm thinking marketing, gosh darn it!

This might very well be the point, but it does feel a little anticlimactic.

In my mind the solar and storm pantheons rivalry never ended, it just grew somewhat less aggressive. Partly because I don't want to let o of a whole line of possible tension and conflict and partly because I think the settinggets a little less stagnant or staid (I think that means what I want it to mean) if the whole issue doesn't end with 'and then the solar pantheon backed of, like yeah'.

 

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

4 hours ago, None said:

and apprently not about Pent either ( I recognize the name but everything else eludes me, if I ever knew anything)

Pent is the Great Genertelan Steppe. It's not an empire or state, just the wide plaines between Kralorelan and Peloria, where the horse nomads dwell. 

Oh so I did know a little about Pent, just not what it was that 'i knew. (I knew of the grazers and the pentan vs. prax mounted beast rivalry.) The other things I didn't know, thanks.

That bit about returning to Peloria though makes me wonder how the Feathered Horse Queen fits into it all, as I understand it she's pretty much something Ernalda just forced onto the grazers in what can only be called a huge religious coup.

[Qizilbashwoman]

6 hours ago, None said:

the Lunar Empire overwrites the solar civilizations

just remember that the Kargzanti and Pure Horse and other Gamatae peeps are Yelm worshippers. They are Solar civilisations, and boy did they Sheng Seleris the crap out of the Lunars over and over.

Part of the lack of conflict in Dara Happa is that Moon's beef is with Air. Moon might be seizing the ritual space of Sun, but it's trying to mythologically oust Air. That's perhaps why the Solars don't care.

The Yelornans (Ouranians) and Yelmalions (? maybe Polestar) are iffy about the Lunars, sometimes fighting them and sometimes allying with them. But they don't really care, not really, because the beef is with Umath's folk.

[None]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Part of the lack of conflict in Dara Happa is that Moon's beef is with Air. Moon might be seizing the ritual space of Sun, but it's trying to mythologically oust Air. That's perhaps why the Solars don't care.

Yes that is a possible in-game reason. My complaint about the Lunar Empire overwritin (most? the central?) of the solar civilizations is more of a game-design/out-of-game one. I feel like it gives me less flavours and tools to work with, and a less dynamical set up. But yes the Kargzanti and Pure Horse are something I shouldn't overlook as much as I have.

Although I might, possibly wrongly, consider the Pure Horse People to effectively be thralls to Ernalda through the Feathered Horse Queen and thus part of the orlanthi "faction".

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 minutes ago, None said:

Yes that is a possible in-game reason. My complaint about the Lunar Empire overwritin (most? the central?) of the solar civilizations is more of a game-design/out-of-game one. I feel like it gives me less flavours and tools to work with, and a less dynamical set up. But yes the Kargzanti and Pure Horse are something I shouldn't overlook as much as I have.

Although I might, possibly wrongly, consider the Pure Horse People to effectively be thralls to Ernalda through the Feathered Horse Queen and thus part of the orlanthi "faction".

They're not thralls to anyone, they just happen to also worship Orest, who is apparently Ernalda, and thus have a common bridge with which to interact with the Orlanthi. They're quite un-Orlanthi, keeping human slaves and worshipping Yelm as a fiery pony.

The Grazers - the Pure Horse People of the Feathered Horse Queen - are kinder to their slaves than most PHP because of their vulnerability to the Orlanthi and the fact that most of the slaves, who are agriculturalists, are Orlanthis. They basically limit their interference to "don't worship Orlanth and no weapons"

Edited November 19, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[None]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

They're not thralls to anyone, they just happen to also worship Orest, who is apparently Ernalda, and thus have a common bridge with which to interact with the Orlanthi. They're quite un-Orlanthi, keeping human slaves and worshipping Yelm as a fiery pony.

The Grazers - the Pure Horse People of the Feathered Horse Queen - are kinder to their slaves than most PHP because of their vulnerability to the Orlanthi and the fact that most of the slaves, who are agriculturalists, are Orlanthis. They basically limit their interference to "don't worship Orlanth and no weapons"

Maybe I shouldn't have said thralls. Its more that the Feathered Horse Queen just suddenly appeared and said 'if you want to eat you obey me now' and seeing as she's the greates Ernaldan priestes in all of Dragon Pass that makes the grazers quite, um, "pliant" to Ernalda's will wether they understand it or not.

If I'm wrong about the Feathered Horse Queen's sudden appearance I'd really like to know more about it.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, None said:

Maybe I shouldn't have said thralls. Its more that the Feathered Horse Queen just suddenly appeared and said 'if you want to eat you obey me now' and seeing as she's the greates Ernaldan priestes in all of Dragon Pass that makes the grazers quite, um, "pliant" to Ernalda's will wether they understand it or not.

If I'm wrong about the Feathered Horse Queen's sudden appearance I'd really like to know more about it.

https://www.glorantha.com/feathered-horse-queen-dynasty/

no

the first FHQ conducted a brutal war forcing submission of the tribes and the Sun King under the auspices of "I am the chosen of Orest". Nothing like that at all.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, None said:

I think part of the reason I want to is because it feels to me like the Lunar Empire overwrites the solar civilizations, Which I thinkis a little wastful. I also feel a little sad that Yelm is pushed into the sidelines (again?). He is suposed to be a major god of the setting but it sees like his only real role was to be the Bad Emperor that Orlanth overthrew.

Yelm became identified as the major god of the setting at the time of the Battle of Argentium Thri'ile. The Dara Happan influence grew stronger in the Bright Empire of Nysalor, and the lore that came out of that period had Yelm in the Orlanthi myths, possibly also thanks to Harmast's two Lightbringers' Quests.

The nature of Yelm is an enigma, really. The Jenarong dynasty worshiped Kargzant, then Yu-Kargzant, but their sun god was bridled during the reign of the sons of Vuranostum late in the first century, fighting a barbarian god emerging from below, wielding an iron sword (GRoY p.34).

(There are no Theyalan stories corroborating this. By that late in the first century, at least the trolls had met the Shadzorings, and likely horse warlords, too. Hardly anyone else has shared observations of this conflict.)

Avivath revealed Antirius and the Sunspear early in the second century.

It may have been the efforts of Khordavu that made the Orlanthi acknowledge that Yelm was the Evil Emperor of their Lifebringer quest.

And Dara Happan scholars kept postdating the re-ascent of Yelm - Plentonius' GRoY made Khordavu the returner, the later Fortunate Succession offers Khorzanelm and the Sunstop as the return date.

 

Throughout the First and Second Age, there were periods of Dara Happan supremacy, but there were also periods of Dara Happan decline. The EWF took over the Dara Happans from within, then lost it again. In the Third Age, the Carmanian Shah Cartavar conquers Dara Happa, and his son and grandson also held the title of Emperor of Dara Happa. Then came Teelo Estara and Yelmgatha.

There are a few attempts after Yelmgatha yielded the Empire to Takenegi, but none succeeded. Sheng Seleris didn't attempt to undergo the Ten or Eleven Tests, and neither did any of his henchmen manage to do so. Not even after the death of Takenegi.

1 hour ago, None said:

The other rerason is that I don't know that much about the Lunar Empire's internal politics, and apprently not about Pent either ( I recognize the name but everything else eludes me, if I ever knew anything).

Not too much is known about the internal politics, apart from the names of a few satrapial clans in the Guide, and a few (probably highly non-canonical) names in Champions of the Red Moon - a weird product that would have been better if two or three smaller organizations had been presented as rivals, rather than to concentrate on one complex with some rather nonsensical portions. (But then, madness is a valued trait among the Lunars.)

Then there are a few genealogies mentioning clans descended from the Emperor.

Still, IMO taking a look at the inner workings of the empire would be the less disruptive approach to rewriting the Hero Wars outline.

1 hour ago, None said:

Looking from the outside like this the lunars look like one monolithic power whose main purpose is to give the orlanthi yet another opportunity to be gutsy, righteous rebels, despite Orlanth being the established ruler of the middle air and not some mere upstart anymore.

I don't know what kind of sources you used to get this impression. The Fazzur story shows the deep rifts inside the Lunar kingdom of Tarsh (which is allied to the Eel-ariash clan), and between Tarsh and the Assiday family of Yuthuppa (Tatius).

 

1 hour ago, None said:

That said I really like the Lunar Empire's experiments with Chaos for one. I just don't think they need the solar civilizations, they are already their own thing.

The Lunars without the Dara Happans wouldn't be an empire, or a very different one. They have managed to inherit both the Dara Happan and the Carmanian emperorship, and they annexed Saird, too.

The Arrolians are a good example for the non-imperial Lunar way. Without imperial Dara Happan and Carmanian authority, the Lunar movement might look a lot like that, or the Eel-ariash projects.

1 hour ago, None said:

In my mind the solar and storm pantheons rivalry never ended, it just grew somewhat less aggressive. Partly because I don't want to let o of a whole line of possible tension and conflict and partly because I think the settinggets a little less stagnant or staid (I think that means what I want it to mean) if the whole issue doesn't end with 'and then the solar pantheon backed of, like yeah'.

The unified solar pantheon and Antirius and Yelm in particular required Orlanth bridling Kargzant, a celestial struggle in the first century of Time which apparently did not count as a breach of the Compromise. We have no Orlanthi sources for this event, though.

Within Time, Yelm is Emperor by Orlanth's grace and preparation. The Dara Happans claim that Yelm's purity caused the rebel to clear Yelm's path. The Orlanthi claim whim.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

That bit about returning to Peloria though makes me wonder how the Feathered Horse Queen fits into it all, as I understand it she's pretty much something Ernalda just forced onto the grazers in what can only be called a huge religious coup.

The Grazers have neither the ambition nor the manpower to return to Peloria - they have the cosiest place any horse nomads have claimed for their own since the horse warlords have been pushed out of the Pelorian basin (twice - Argentium Thri'ile in the Dawn Age, and in the Fifth Wane). Old Pavis was the most civilized Pentan kingdom that wasn't based on conquest of the previous population.

If the FHQ has ties to Ernalda, it is mainly to the Orendana the Queen aspect/subcult. Her authority in Dragon Pass is as the avatar of Kero Fin, formerly provided by Sorana Tor who doesn't seem to have fully incarnated any more since her marriage to Illaro Blacktooth. There is a dynasty of Sorana Tor-descended priestesses from the Tarsh Twins lineage still at Shaker's Temple, providing another (lesser) source of sovereinty (e.g. used by Saronil).

 

 

[None]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

https://www.glorantha.com/feathered-horse-queen-dynasty/

no

the first FHQ conducted a brutal war forcing submission of the tribes and the Sun King under the auspices of "I am the chosen of Orest". Nothing like that at all.

Oh, okay.

I haven't read that page yet and probably won't be able to today but I'll check it out later. That sill leaves it as a power play by Ernalda in my eyes but a more aggreable one. I've never liked the whole the earth goddesses are the food mafia of Glorantha feel I've had several times and seeing that it wasn't used as an instant win button over the grazers makes me a lot happier.

[None]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

If the FHQ has ties to Ernalda, it is mainly to the Orendana the Queen aspect/subcult. Her authority in Dragon Pass is as the avatar of Kero Fin, formerly provided by Sorana Tor who doesn't seem to have fully incarnated any more since her marriage to Illaro Blacktooth. There is a dynasty of Sorana Tor-descended priestesses from the Tarsh Twins lineage still at Shaker's Temple, providing another (lesser) source of sovereinty (e.g. used by Saronil).

Really? I was under the impression that Ernalda pretty much created the Feathered Horse Queen.

edit: I'm not going to comment the rest of your post, its just too much and I don't know where to begin. Lest just say that I found it an interesting read. Although I would probably still just alter the Lunars to fit my needs.

edit, edit: I know the solar, storm rivalry officially ended, I just don't go with that. I just make it less aggressive and violent than it originally was.

Edited November 19, 2019 by None

[Qizilbashwoman]

2 minutes ago, None said:

Really? I was under the impression that Ernalda pretty much created the Feathered Horse Queen.

edit: I'm not going to comment the rest of your post, its just too much and I don't know where to begin. Lest just say that I found it an interesting read. Although I would probably still just alter the Lunars to fit my needs.

I think you think the Gods do stuff actively in Glorantha, which they do not

[None]

59 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I think you think the Gods do stuff actively in Glorantha, which they do not

I don't actually, at least not directly, but I'm sure I've read that Ernalda made the Feathered Horse Queen somewhere. Not that I can remember where.

[Qizilbashwoman]

Just now, None said:

I don't actually, at least not directly, but I'm sure I've read that Ernalda made the Feathered Horse Queen somewhere. Not that I can remember where.

the way it works in Glorantha is that someone heroquests for power, so it's the other way around, sort of. Also, the first FHQ proved herself to be Sorana Tor, the Killer of Men and Queen of Dragon Pass, the living embodiment of Ana Gor, the goddess of human sacrifice, so not Ernalda specifically but the sort of inspiration for Hon Eel's role as maize goddess. Thus the subsequent FHQs do the heroquest and prove they, too, are Sorana Tor.