The Lunar Grantlands : what domains are granted, and to whom, from 1615 to 1621 ?

[Corvantir]

I am about to start a campaign next month in the Borderlands. Yes, I have finally found the courage to gather some long time friends and share my love of Glorantha with them.

The campaign will start in 1615 and will be based on the first five adventures published in Borderlands & beyond. I am currently reviewing the background and what puzzles me a bit is that the various sourcebooks don't tell me much about the domains that are granted from 1615 to 1621, which would help to figure out the evolution of the Grantlands along this same period.

The Guide to Glorantha does not help, Pavis: Gateway to Adventure and River of Cradles are rather vague and just tell us the following :

"Over the period 1615-1621 the boundaries of seven domains were marked and established by the Lunar Governor at Pavis. Weis Domain (that of Duke Raus of Rone) was the first and largest grant. Subsequent grants were made by Governor Sor-Eel, sometimes at the direction of the Red Emperor, sometimes to reward a loyal Lunar general with a land grant, sometimes to favor ambitious enterprises with schemes of producing agricultural products for export through the seaport of Corflu. The prominent candidates to receive grants at this time are as follow :

- A popular but politically-suspect Dara Happan general of the Lunar Army in Heortland was slated to receive the Red Cliff Domain.

- An infamous Lunar carpetbagger was expected to receive Bilos Gap.

- An entrepreneur proposing to establish a number of slave-cultivated rice plantations for export hopes to receive Lokazzi Grant."

In other words, we just know that the Weis Domain was the first to have been granted and to whom, how several domains have been granted but not which ones nor to whom, and that there are prominent candidates for Red Cliff, Bilos and Lokazzi Grants (and who the said prominent candidates are but not who the other candidates are).

Are there other sources telling us more about the Grantlands Domains and their concessionaire ?

If we consider what is written in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, is it safe to assume that the Red Cliff, Bilos and Lokazzi Grants are the only ones that have not yet been granted ?

Whatever the answer to these two questions, I am interested in reading how you have populated your Grantlands. This would help a lot as it seems I am rather bad at coming with my own ideas without good firestarters.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Corvantir

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Corvantir said:

Are there other sources telling us more about the Grantlands Domains and their concessionaire ?

Nope! (This text originally appeared in the RQ3 River of Cradles book and was brought forward to P:GtA) I believe that was intentional so that GM's could develop at their own discretion. 

Also I don't believe that any of the grants (aside from Raus') were ever indicated to have been given out. But they could have been! 

 

[soltakss]

I think they were planned, but the Lunars were kicked out of Prax before they could be fulfilled.

After all, it took Duke Raus a good few years to set up his Grantland, so the others were probably seeing how successful he was before they committed.

Edited November 23, 2019 by soltakss

[Corvantir]

Thank you both.

About other sources, this is unfortunately confirming what I thought.

About the other grants, the Lunars seems to be pretty efficient when they do something, so it feels strange to me that there is no more than a single domain granted six years later.

Moreover, the words "and established" in the sentence, "Over the period 1615-1621 the boundaries of seven domains were marked and established by the Lunar Governor at Pavis" suggests that some other grants have been granted in 1621.

I appreciate the food for thoughts.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Corvantir

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Corvantir said:

"Over the period 1615-1621 the boundaries of seven domains were marked and established by the Lunar Governor at Pavis" suggests that some other grants have been granted in 1621.

Something to think about is that in the Borderlands scenarios, Duke Raus has his mercenaries scout not only his territory but that designated as the Bilos Grant and the Five Eyes Grant. Were these supposed to be his originally? Did Raus get "punished" for some failure? Or was he just charged with marking out these lands for subsequent grants?

Also, note the similarity of name for the Lokazzi Grant to the name Tolkazzi, the person who founded Corflu. (See P:GtA p.45: "1612 Founding of Corflu by Tolkazzi, a member of the influential Ingilli family of Pavis. With Lunar Etyries Priest Koronius Falabdur, Tolkazzi established Corflu as a minor trade port." and "1615 S.T. Etyries High Priest Gharan Falabdur of Corflu
disappears into the Wastes. Henceforth, the Corflu marketplace is without a permanent Etyries priest. Trade rights revert to Tolkazzi and the Ingilli.")

Personally, I believe that the "entrepreneur proposing to establish a number of slave-cultivated rice plantations for export hopes to receive Lokazzi Grant" is a member of the Ingilli family and that they already hold Corflu too. 

[Corvantir]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Something to think about is that in the Borderlands scenarios, Duke Raus has his mercenaries scout not only his territory but that designated as the Bilos Grant and the Five Eyes Grant. Were these supposed to be his originally? Did Raus get "punished" for some failure? Or was he just charged with marking out these lands for subsequent grants?

Also, note the similarity of name for the Lokazzi Grant to the name Tolkazzi, the person who founded Corflu. (See P:GtA p.45: "1612 Founding of Corflu by Tolkazzi, a member of the influential Ingilli family of Pavis. With Lunar Etyries Priest Koronius Falabdur, Tolkazzi established Corflu as a minor trade port." and "1615 S.T. Etyries High Priest Gharan Falabdur of Corflu
disappears into the Wastes. Henceforth, the Corflu marketplace is without a permanent Etyries priest. Trade rights revert to Tolkazzi and the Ingilli.")

Personally, I believe that the "entrepreneur proposing to establish a number of slave-cultivated rice plantations for export hopes to receive Lokazzi Grant" is a member of the Ingilli family and that they already hold Corflu too. 

SPOILER ALERT : if you are a player, don't read further.

 

I have not reviewed the scenarios yet, I read them a few months ago and it seemed to me that Duke Raus only act in Five Eyes to prevent the Newtlings threat to his burgeonning colony from becoming impossible to manage later.

In "Outlaw Hunt", Duke Raus is asked by the Lunar authority to eliminate the Duck bandits though. This reminds us that Duke Raus grant comes with duties. Patrolling the nearby grants so that they stay clear of unwanted settlers (from the Lunar point of view, of course) can indeed be a duty coming with the Weis Domain. Thanks for the tip, this is a source of adventures I didn't saw before.   👍

I didn't realized the similarity between Lokazzi and Tolkazzi before neither.   🙃

Edited November 23, 2019 by Corvantir

[Joerg]

13 hours ago, soltakss said:

I think they were planned, but the Lunard were kicked out of Prax before they could be fulfilled.

After all, it took Duke Raus a good few years to set up his Grantland, so the others were probably seeing how successful he was before they committed.

I think that Rugbagian of Pavis (at least that's who I think the "carpet bagger" refers to) would have started the initial development when Raus' first batch of settlers arrived. The 1621 population numbers of 5K rural (plus the 1K of Ronegarth) cannot be just Raus' settlers plus Oasis Folk. Other grants were smaller, and required less preparation.

 

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Something to think about is that in the Borderlands scenarios, Duke Raus has his mercenaries scout not only his territory but that designated as the Bilos Grant and the Five Eyes Grant. Were these supposed to be his originally? Did Raus get "punished" for some failure? Or was he just charged with marking out these lands for subsequent grants?

I think the latter. Doing some groundwork for other grants may have been part of his pardon.

 

Quote

Also, note the similarity of name for the Lokazzi Grant to the name Tolkazzi, the person who founded Corflu. (See P:GtA p.45: "1612 Founding of Corflu by Tolkazzi, a member of the influential Ingilli family of Pavis. With Lunar Etyries Priest Koronius Falabdur, Tolkazzi established Corflu as a minor trade port." and "1615 S.T. Etyries High Priest Gharan Falabdur of Corflu
disappears into the Wastes. Henceforth, the Corflu marketplace is without a permanent Etyries priest. Trade rights revert to Tolkazzi and the Ingilli.")

Pavis:GtA has a fisherman named Korzen Lokazzi as a river captain, and mentions the hamlet of Lokazzi as an overnight stop on the way from Pavis to Corflu. This sounds like Lokazzi is an established River-folk village on the lower Zola Fel.

 

Quote

Personally, I believe that the "entrepreneur proposing to establish a number of slave-cultivated rice plantations for export hopes to receive Lokazzi Grant" is a member of the Ingilli family and that they already hold Corflu too. 

That's another Pavisite potentate under Sor-eel to make use of a grant, if my hunch about Rugbagian is correct.

So, who is the popular but political suspect Dara Happan general of the Lunar Army in Heortland? The ill-fated Jorkandros Blinder?

Edited November 23, 2019 by Joerg

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

who is the popular but political suspect Dara Happan general of the Lunar Army in Heortland? The ill-fated Jorkandros Blinder?

Quite possibly. Just needed that one more win at Whitewall, even had the Crimson Bat at this disposal, and then he and some of his veterans could retire in comfort to the glorious Red Cliff Domain! Except, it didn't.

[Bill the barbarian]

On 11/21/2019 at 2:50 PM, Corvantir said:

I am about to start a campaign next month in the Borderlands. Yes, I have finally found the courage to gather some long time friends and share my love of Glorantha with them.

 

Thank you for the topic, Corvantir. Great call!

[Joerg]

53 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Quite possibly. Just needed that one more win at Whitewall, even had the Crimson Bat at this disposal, and then he and some of his veterans could retire in comfort to the glorious Red Cliff Domain! Except, it didn't.

All those bribes and favours gone for naught. Instead of a peaceful retirement amidst fearsome nomads, uncivilized natives and chaos monsters the poor man is doomed to spend the rest of his life in house arrest in the family palace and gardens. The hardship!

Edited November 23, 2019 by Joerg

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

spend the rest of his life in house arrest in the family palace and gardens. The hardship!

Or maybe he does end up in the Red Cliff Domain, just stripped of all titles and rank and sold as a slave to whoever does end up running that grant.  A new Bijiif!

[Joerg]

I misrembered Jorkandros being recalled home, but King of Sartar uses "removed" consistently. As a Yuthuppan citizen, he might even have received the Golden handshake and the land grant in recognition of his family ties if not ability. Plus the dredges of settlers that could be sent to the Grantlands, like that Carmanian Pola family of Shadows on the Borderlands fame, or criminals swiped from the streets of Glamour.

So I guess, whatever fits your Glorantha best.

The Ingilli and Rugbagian grants might even have a chance to survive 1624 if they kowtow early and deep enough to Argrath and his Wolf Pirate friends in Corflu. Ronegarth is too weak to stand against the nomads or Argrath on its own, and Raus is intelligent enough to recognize that. No idea whether he is flexible enough to find a way into survival for his grant if not for his person.

The Wolf Pirates like their serfs and don't discriminate them for religion, tone of skin or other irrelevant prior conditions, which might lead to a greater number of Lunar survivors in the Grantlands than in Pavis County. Prominent leaders will be taken captive for ransom from their families, ensuring their survival in captivity for a season or two at least.

[ArmchairPI]

Is it too late to comment here? I’m writing up a Borderlands campaign and was going to use These Ducks Need Help from Rule One issue one for the carpet bagger and the Mad Baron Voorstick - from RQA #5 for Red Cliff Domain. 

[Runeblogger]

In Ian Thomson's fanzines published long ago by Tentacles Press, there was a second group of settlers who were granted the lands south of Duke Raus'. They were several Carmanian families. I expect other grant lands to be granted to some Lunar officers.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

In Ian Thomson's fanzines published long ago by Tentacles Press, there was a second group of settlers who were granted the lands south of Duke Raus'. They were several Carmanian families. I expect other grant lands to be granted to some Lunar officers.

There are some (not much) informations in 'River of Cradles), including one part on  the Carmanian settlers (and their, iirc, different plow).

[jajagappa]

On 2/7/2022 at 6:27 PM, ArmchairPI said:

Is it too late to comment here? I’m writing up a Borderlands campaign and was going to use These Ducks Need Help from Rule One issue one for the carpet bagger and the Mad Baron Voorstick - from RQA #5 for Red Cliff Domain. 

If those work in your campaign, then why not?  These may well provide an opportunity to create a Poor/Troublesome Neighbor, which is always getting into trouble and coming to Duke Raus for aid; and a Rival Neighbor who seems to be making inroads on the Duke's domain (particularly in areas where you previously resolved problems) or stirring up trouble in Pavis with the Governor.

[ArmchairPI]

I’m patiently waiting for the rerelease of Ian Thomson’s Beyond Pavis to start, since he is posting in another thread that he is working on it. Just gathering pieces I can crib together with the Borderlands campaign and then put a fancy frame around. 

[Ludo Bagman]

I just wanted to add that MOB did continue the history of Sun County with events from 1621 to 1624 in this thread and later on facebook. They contain a few notes on Duke Raus and the Grantlands.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/websites/facebook/some-notes-on-the-cradle-aftermath/

 

[MOB]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:00 AM, Ludo Bagman said:

I just wanted to add that MOB did continue the history of Sun County with events from 1621 to 1624 in this thread and later on facebook. They contain a few notes on Duke Raus and the Grantlands.

It was loads of fun doing that series of daily posts - I think in the end there was about 48 posts in a row, covering what went on in Sun County from the appearance of the Cradle in 1621 right through the Great Winter and its aftermath to the Second Battle of Moonbroth.

Lots going on at the moment, both professionally and at home, but when I have the time I'll continue the tale from 1624 through to 1627: this is known in Sun County as "The Time of Two Counts".