Tied Opposed rolls

[Brootse]

What happens when X is hiding and Y is searching and both succeed on the same level on their rolls?

[Lordabdul]

RQG says that "the situation is temporarily unresolved". It means that X is still hiding and Y is still searching because she thinks something's off somehow. Time passes.... if X or Y are under time pressure, they might start getting nervous or try something brash to hurry things up. Other things might happen: maybe X needs to roll for CON because cramps are coming up. Maybe Y gets replaced by another guard (with a different skill score) because she finished her watch. Maybe some drunk NPCs stumble this way, or a wild animal shows up, or the clan chief (that X wanted to spy on) suddenly leaves and walks aways, or whatever.... and if none of the characters are doing something else, then I guess they roll again (basically like an extended contest).

Edited May 18, 2020 by lordabdul

[Brootse]

6 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

RQG says that "the situation is temporarily unresolved". It means that X is still hiding and Y is still searching because she thinks something's off somehow. Time passes.... if X or Y are under time pressure, they might start getting nervous or try something brash to hurry things up. Other things might happen: maybe X needs to roll for CON because cramps are coming up. Maybe Y gets replaced by another guard (with a different skill score) because she finished her watch. Maybe some drunk NPCs stumble this way, or a wild animal shows up, or the clan chief (that X wanted to spy on) suddenly leaves and walks aways, or whatever.... and if none of the characters are doing something else, then I guess they roll again (basically like an extended contest).

So if the searcher only checks for the area once, the hider wouldn't be found? Or if someone tries to sneak behind a guard's back to cut his throat, and the guard succeeds in his Listen check, and the cutthroat succeeds in his Move Quietly check, the cutthroat would get to him? Or should they both continue to roll until the successes are not tied?

[Lordabdul]

54 minutes ago, Brootse said:

So if the searcher only checks for the area once, the hider wouldn't be found?

Because nobody succeeded, I would keep the situation unresolved. The searcher hasn't found the hider yet, but she's not going away for some reason... she keeps searching (unsucessfully for now... in the wrong corner of the room) because she has a hunch that something's wrong, or found something else to do in that room (like maybe she found a hidden stash of ale or whatever, and is distracted doing that instead of searching).

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Or if someone tries to sneak behind a guard's back to cut his throat, and the guard succeeds in his Listen check, and the cutthroat succeeds in his Move Quietly check, the cutthroat would get to him?

Same thing, the situation is unresolved: the assassin tried to move quietly but the guard heard something. The assassin stopped and froze in place, as the guard is currently looking around, mumbling "huh, what was that?".

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Or should they both continue to roll until the successes are not tied?

As such, yeah I would say they have to keep rolling. To add some tension, depending on the situation and the mood around the table, I might do a few changes: the guard is now looking around, so he can roll Scan now, if that's better than Listen. Maybe get +20%, too, because he's alert. And as such (same reasons) the assassin might roll Stealth instead of Move Quietly from now on. Maybe the guard calls the other guard on the other side of the  corridor: "hey, did you hear that?", and now the assassin is up against 2 guards -- she might want to retreat and try sneaking around the other side.

Edited May 18, 2020 by lordabdul

[Lordabdul]

We had a thread a while ago about ties in Opposed Rolls and my takeaway from that thread was to figure out the subtle difference between "it's a tie, nothing changes", and "it's a tie, the situation is unresolved". The first one is boring: you keep rolling, and the story doesn't progress forward until someone wins. The GM should avoid doing that. The second is an opportunity for suspenseful scenes: the characters' goals for the rolls haven't been achieved (so they're continuing to move towards these goals) but haven't been thwarted either... somehow something changed in the scene that makes the action continue. The story is progressing forward, the tension is building, the stakes are higher.

Edited May 19, 2020 by lordabdul

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Brootse said:

Or if someone tries to sneak behind a guard's back to cut his throat, and the guard succeeds in his Listen check, and the cutthroat succeeds in his Move Quietly check, the cutthroat would get to him? Or should they both continue to roll until the successes are not tied?

my view,

 

if the move quietly is a fail, the guard may not need to roll listen (it depends, i agree) to be aware

then, by reciprocity, if the move quietly is a simple succes, the guard may simply succeed listen to be aware

 

maybe a second roll and if again tie, then what is good for the story (if it is not important I would choose guard awarness, but bonus for the attack, little bonus but bonus)

[gochie]

I would do a resistance roll (ie. the REAL opposed roll). 

Divide both skills % by 5 and match them on the resistance table. Player (or passive character?) rolls on the resistance table to see if they beat the opponent.

[Runeblogger]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:58 AM, lordabdul said:

Same thing, the situation is unresolved: the assassin tried to move quietly but the guard heard something. The assassin stopped and froze in place, as the guard is currently looking around, mumbling "huh, what was that?".

In this case, you are giving some advantage to the guard, but both guard and assassin got a success.

IMHO, I would do like in Pendragon and Mythras: the highest success wins. Another option: the highest skill wins.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Runeblogger

[Lordabdul]

49 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

In this case, you are giving some advantage to the guard, but both guard and assassin got a success.

I disagree: the guard succeeded in his search (heard or saw or smelt something), the assassin succeeded in his hiding. But yes, it depends on how you play the guard in the rest of the scene. I don't consider the guard having an advantage here, but you could change the interpretation to "the guard saw that some object had been moved from its usual spot" for instance.

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IMHO, I would do like in Pendragon and Mythras: the highest success wins. Another option: the highest skill wins.

People should always feel free to make up house rules or on-the-spot-calls for tricky situations, but I was striving to show exactly how to interpret the rules as written.

Edited May 21, 2020 by lordabdul

[Bill the barbarian]

6 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

People should always feel free to make up house rules or on-the-spot-calls for tricky situations, but I was striving to show exactly how to interpret the rules as written.

Interesting, we almost agree here. Myself I would turn that around... but yes, the point is relevant.

My take:

People should try to use the rules as written (theoretically, they should/could be well thought out and balanced and hell you paid good money for ‘em), but always feel free to make up house rules or on-the-spot-calls for tricky situations.

Point is, BRP Central is a great resource to get peer to peer support and advice. Might be wrong might be right but it could (should, if you give it a bit of thought) help you get the most of your game!

[Mankcam]

I have been playing BRP/RQ for so long, I'm not sure what are official rules and what are house rules.

For me as a GM, I sometimes don't like keeping actions unresolved as a stalemate.

So I go with my gut - if it feels like being unresolved is something that adds to the drama and tension in the game, sure, I'll go with it.

But if it feels like this will slow the pace down, then I'll push to resolve it by calling for a Resistance Table Roll, and spitball what the relevant Characteristics would be to bring to the roll. It's always seemed to work well. 

I also use it in combat if the rolls are tight, but only in the character's favour. For example, if the PC does a successful parry, then that roll stands. But if an NPC opponent successfully parries, and the result is tight (almost a miss), then I might call for Resistance Table rolls to determine the outcome. I have found that it adds to the tension in combat, yet keeps it feeling fast-paced as well.

That's the good thing with BRP and RQ - there are some core rules that can easily be applied across a wide range of situations ad hoc. I tend to play this way, and only refer to the rulebook for specific spot rules and such when I am not at the gaming table. If the official rule seems better, then I mentally flag it for next time. If not, I just go along my merry way with 'rulings over rules'.

So I guess this may be one of those times for me 😎

Edited May 23, 2020 by Mankcam