How tough is a helmet beetle hlmet?

[Squaredeal Sten]

Just reading Trollpack, and the question occurred to me:  How tough is a helmet beetle shell helmet?  How heavy?  Or is it dependent on workmanship, that is its hit absorption could go anywhere from 2 to 6 depending on the crafter?

RQG p. 235 helmet classes depend both on the material (leather or plate) and the coverage of the helmet.

Material       design             Absorbs       ENC

Leather       hood or hat          1                 0,5

Leather       cap                        2                0.5

Plate           composite helm   3               0.5

Plate            open helm              4              1

Plate            Closed helm         5                1

Plate          Full helm                6                2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Squaredeal Sten
table

[Brootse]

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Just reading Trollpack, and the question occurred to me:  How tough is a helmet beetle shell helmet?  How heavy?  Or is it dependent on workmanship, that is its hit absorption could go anywhere from 2 to 6 depending on the crafter?

RQG p. 235 helmet classes depend both on the material (leather or plate) and the coverage of the helmet.

Material       design             Absorbs       ENC

Leather       hood or hat          1                 0,5

Leather       cap                        2                0.5

Plate           composite helm   3               0.5

Plate            open helm              4              1

Plate            Closed helm         5                1

Plate          Full helm                6                2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the Bestiary Ludochs wear giant-crab armors that have half of the APs that the giant-crabs have. So you could check how much different beetles have armor and halve those.

[Squaredeal Sten]

6 hours ago, Brootse said:

In the Bestiary Ludochs wear giant-crab armors that have half of the APs that the giant-crabs have. So you could check how much different beetles have armor and halve those.

Helmet beetle stats -

Bestiary guard beetle stats say 6 point chitin.  It doesn't  give stats for helmet beetles.  The beetle types in general take stats from guard beetles, though ham beetles are listed and given 2 point chitin.  However most are larger than the helmet beetle description.

Trollpack -  it's actually "Helmet weevils", in a list of insects but no stats on that page:  " HELMET WEEVIL
These beetles are raised in heaps of large nuts in the Kingdom of Night. Their armor is tough enough to withstand a sword thrust, and the trolls use their shells for head plates.  "  It is not in the "industrial Insects" list.

So - if halved, the 3 pts or equivalant to a composite helm?  On the other hand if not halved, - many of the trolls with stats have heavier armor then 3, plenty of 6s= 7 with troll skin.

Nor is there an indication of how to calculate ENC for beetle shell items.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling, my nemesis.

[Stephen L]

I'd suggest a similar ballpark to Turtleshell, used for a Cuirass, which is 4 point protection.  If you're envisioning it as plates used unaltered, I'd go with 4 pts, and if they are sections, held together by leather, then 3 pts.  I'd probably go with 1 Enc.

In return, heavy scale hauberk, made with (dream) dragon scales, there a question for you.

 

[Brootse]

6 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I'd suggest a similar ballpark to Turtleshell, used for a Cuirass, which is 4 point protection.  If you're envisioning it as plates used unaltered, I'd go with 4 pts, and if they are sections, held together by leather, then 3 pts.  I'd probably go with 1 Enc.

In return, heavy scale hauberk, made with (dream) dragon scales, there a question for you.

 

I'd use the same halving rule. And it will get more immaterial with time and disappear at some point. Maybe -1 AP per season or year?

[Akhôrahil]

22 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So - if halved, the 3 pts or equivalant to a composite helm?

This makes sense to me - composite helmet, only crafted from different materials.

Chitin isn’t metal.

[Lordabdul]

On 9/26/2020 at 8:52 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Just reading Trollpack, and the question occurred to me:  How tough is a helmet beetle shell helmet?

Going with both MGF and MGL ("Maxiumum Gamemaster Laziness"), use the same stats as normal helmets, and explain the different stats with different types of beetles and different levels of craft. Let players have cool looking beetle helmets if they want, without being penalized or advantaged for it via the stats. If the PCs went through the trouble of fighting an actual giant beetle, and then paid some good money to have a helmet made for it, give them slightly better stats as a prize, just like you may (or may not) give them different stats for a cool metal helmet they find in some old tomb or after a boss fight or whatever.

That said, different arthropods have different thicknesses for their chitin armour. For beetles specifically, I'd stay in the 1 to 5 range for Armor Rating. 6 and above would require a special kind of giant beetle, or a different giant arthropod.

[g33k]

17 hours ago, lordabdul said:

... 6 and above would require a special kind of giant beetle ...

Arguably, that's exactly what the Helmet Beetle / Helmet Weevil *IS* -- bred specially for tougher chitin on the head.

[Kloster]

If you play Hero Games system, you know that it is just a special effect, but the value is the same as any other helmet (if you are a player) or what you decide (if you are a GM).

[PhilHibbs]

I'd be inclined to make it a pretty good helmet in terms of AP, but give it a Search and Scan skill penalty, visual only of course. No penalty for Darksense.