Strike Rank confusion

[Akhôrahil]

25 minutes ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

But in this example:

• SR1 = Cast Multimissile-1
• SR2 = Shoot
• SR7 = Reload
• SR12 = Cast second Multimissile-1 (a second spirit magic in the same turn always costs +5 SRs to mentally refocus, and Multimissile-2 would blow the round limit by adding an extra SR).

I think it has to be "SR = 12 Preparation for Spirit Magic complete", as this takes 5 SRs. Then you cast on next SR 1. But it depends on whether you see the spell readiness as a separate 5 SR activity, or as a +5 SR cost (in the latter case, your example would work if you had Dex SR 0). I find it easier to see readying, reloading and so on as separate activities, not as additional SR costs, but the rules are far from clear.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Mechashef]

13 minutes ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

There’s also the flat 5SR requirement for the 2nd spirit magic in a round.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree with that being a good reason for not allowing that scenario.

[Arcadiagt5]

57 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think it has to be "SR = 12 Preparation for Spirit Magic complete", as this takes 5 SRs. Then you cast on next SR 1. But it depends on whether you see the spell readiness as a separate 5 SR activity, or as a +5 SR cost (in the latter case, your example would work if you had Dex SR 0). I find it easier to see readying, reloading and so on as separate activities, not as additional SR costs, but the rules are far from clear.

The rules aren’t exactly clear on whether DEX applies to the 2nd spell on top of the +5 or not, or whether DEX SR0 gets treated as 1 if it does. 

[Bill the barbarian]

16 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Sorry, I can be quite dense at times.

 

17 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

18 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Is my interpretation of the RAW correct?

If so, do people actually play it that way or just play every round like the first one (with two shots, one on SR 2 and one on SR 9)?

I believe not only is your interpretation correct but so is your second guess of how people tend to play the rule correct.

 

Yor interpretation above is correct as I understand it. Your interpretation repeated below....

18 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Every odd round they would get two shots and every even round they would only get one shot.

 

So, this is not how people tend to play that i have seen People like easy and consistent, and an alternating SR is not easy or consistent. I have not seen any one post a comment saying they do play that way, but I am sure people would complain about it in any case as being unfair or hard to remember, (why do I get one shot when I had two) and home rule it as two shots every round... For ease and simplicity this is what I do.

16 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

so I say the Barbarian is WRONG, WRONG I SAY!!... or maybe he is right...

No no no, I say I am RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT or maybe I am wrong! Gottit? 

Im my defence and many like me, the rules are poorly stated at times and this is one such rule that has cost many many pixels to die in vane attempts to explain how to interpret it!

Good luck and have your SAN dice ready to roll.

Cheers

Edited October 12, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Mugen]

23 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

If by that you mean having effects on specials and critical that can be something other than "do more damage", than yes, I suppose. Not sure why it would be clumsier than how it works in Mythras (we were already doing that as a HR back in the good old RQ3 days) . If having options on specials/criticals is potentially confusing or time consuming for players, than the two other options (successful Parry/failed Attack or attack at half % at SR 12)  could work better.

I humbly apologize for the "clumsier", it was unnecessarily harsh. I should have said I think Mythras' solution is more elegant.

[DreadDomain]

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

I humbly apologize for the "clumsier", it was unnecessarily harsh. I should have said I think Mythras' solution is more elegant.

Oh no, not at all. Your comment made me think about it a bit more and I came to realise that maybe having players choose "options" on specials or criticals might be too cumbersome for some groups. Perhaps repurposing already existing RQG mechanics (the "Aim" mechanic for an aggressive close and the "Disengage" mechanic for a more defensive close) might be an easier solution.

I agree with you, Mythras approach is more elegant in that matter if only because special effects are all built around "choose an effect based on your level of (relative) success". It makes the system very coherent. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by DreadDomain

[Prinz Slasar]

1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

it a bit more and I came to realise that maybe having players choose "options" on specials or criticals might be too cumbersome for some groups and that only repurposing already existing RQG mechanics

Keep in mind that the Mythras Special Effects portfolio not only includes the usual criticals and specials but combat maneuvers and other stuff as well. In that regard it is pretty complete and displays all possible outcomes in one list and one mechanism.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Prinz Slasar

[DreadDomain]

49 minutes ago, Prinz Slasar said:

Keep in mind that the Mythras Special Effects portfolio not only includes the usual criticals and specials but combat maneuvers and other stuff as well. In that regard it is pretty complete and displays all possible outcomes in one list and one mechanism.

Yes. This is pretty much what I meant by:

1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

I agree with you, Mythras approach is more elegant in that matter if only because special effects are all built around "choose an effect based on your level of (relative) success". It makes the system very coherent. 

... you just said it better.

[Stephen L]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:42 AM, Mechashef said:

With a Dex of 19, round 1 could look like this:

• SR 1 - (actually SR 0 but my understanding is the first SR of a round is 1, so the SR 0 becomes SR 1).  Multimissile (1) requires zero extra SRs so use it, resulting in two arrows fired on this SR
• SR 6  - Bow is reloaded.  Shoot again, also using Multimissile (1) resulting in two arrows being fired
• SR 11 - Bow is Reloaded.  Start casting Multimissile (2) which will take one additional SR
• SR 12 - Shoot again with Multimissile (2) resulting in 3 arrows being fired.

Yes, this is my *interpretation*

Though if we’re maximising, I note the first could be a 2 point spell, with no change to the SR calculations.

Multimissile would be a killer against lightly armoured foes, but Speedart or fire arrow would be more effective against heavily armoured.  However, firearrow would give away your position, so if I was the archer, there are times when I’d save it to the last shot, and then scoot the next round to find somewhere else to hide.

Do not forget, that it’s Pow x5 to cast, so a significant fraction of those spells won’t go off.

Also, wind modifiers, on a windy day your archers will be useless (although the +15% from speedart might help!)

On 10/12/2020 at 10:52 AM, Arcadiagt5 said:

unless the GM explicitly rules otherwise actions are sequential not parallel. e.g I have allowed players to pull weapons while moving

Hmm, the 5 SR delay for reloading arrows /  spells, is it really so cut and dry whether they are sequential or parallel? 

Given I can cast spells and parry or dodge with no SR implications, I just can’t think of the justification for why they can’t happen in parallel.  What is happening in those 5SR between spells that means I could parry, but I couldn’t draw and knock an arrow?  No one has contested that preparing an arrow is muscle memory.  I’d even suggest that it could be done blind.

However, game balance is a good argument for me at least, and the spell casters/ missile folk my lot have rolled up are weak, compared to the truly frightening front line combat folk.  Which probably explains why I fell off this side of the fence!

[Blindhamster]

my experience so far is that an archer with a remotely good skill is utterly terrifying and can make a mockery of almost any fight if they have forewarning of enemies incoming (such as though a spirit animal Vrokhawk..

He tends to do most of the work in most of the combats the party of 4-6(depending on attendance) have been in so far.

 

makes my life as a GM a nightmare

Edited October 14, 2020 by Blindhamster

[Akhôrahil]

On 10/12/2020 at 1:03 PM, Arcadiagt5 said:

The rules aren’t exactly clear on whether DEX applies to the 2nd spell on top of the +5 or not

It surely must!

Edited October 14, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Blindhamster]

yeah each attack is your Dex SR + weapon SR + Siz SR (if melee). There may be additional modifiers on top of that for preparing.

The archer in my game has Dexterity 19, so Dex SR0, he's often the one to initiate combats thanks to also being stealthy so typically fires a shot at SR1 another at SR 6 and another at SR11 for first round. Then SR 5 and SR 10 each round after that.

 

[Stephen L]

11 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

archer with a remotely good skill is utterly terrifying

It sound to me as if they should go adventuring on windy days, that will make archery much harder.