Bringing HQ's magic to RQ

[Lordabdul]

Recently I was reading some old HeroWars/HeroQuest-era cult write-ups and realized that the Rune abilities there can be used for a wide variety of situations. In many cases, they let your character accomplish magical or semi-magical feats that an equivalent RQ character can't. IMHO HQ's Glorantha is arguably a more magical place than RQ's Glorantha, but I was wondering about bringing some of that magic back to RQ... so for instance do you allow Rune rolls or Rune augments to accomplish non-mundane ("semi-magical") actions? What about allowing a Rune roll with a Rune Point spend to do something that is appropriate for your deity but isn't a Rune Spell per se? ("improvised divine magic")

[Runeblogger]

I like that idea a lot, although I would need to test is first. I would probably only allow it for initiates who already have all their deity's spells as described in RQG, to represent the fact that they have had some experience with their deity's magic. You could, for example, let PCs who have Rune points in excess of the available special Rune spells improvise Rune spells in a given situation, which then become fixed to one or two of those Rune points in excess of the available Rune spells, so that would mean they learnt the spell when they sacrificed for the Rune point. 

This ties with my assumption that every time you learn a new Rune spell, you actually undertake a mini-heroquest in which you reenact some deed of your deity.

[Shiningbrow]

I'd suggest if doing this, then making a pre-requisite of 90% in the deity's Rune(s). You can't do your god's things if you're just not that much into what s/he is about... And, obviously, you can only do those things associated with those Runes (at 90%+). This would mean, if you have Ernalda and Fertility at 95%, you still don't get to use any of the Harmony or Earth powers until they get up high as well.

[Akhôrahil]

From what I understood of JWSSGG, it's very strongly based on the runes.

For RQ, it's a little trickier - the concept of improvising from runes don't mesh easily with the strict definitional approach to the rules that RQ does. I think you can go wild with augmenting, but you need to be playing a pretty fluid and improvisational style of RQ to be able to use runes to straightforwardly accomplish task - for one thing, most runes cover several skills' worth of ground, so you have to avoid making the skills obsolete.

One thing I would allow is improvisational use of spirit magic, like sharpening your pen using Bladesharp and so on. Actually, using Runes for minor tasks for flavor purposes should typically be fine as well.

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

so for instance do you allow Rune rolls or Rune augments to accomplish non-mundane ("semi-magical") actions?

Yes. I added Runic Mastery to the Book of Doom to allow exactly this.

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

What about allowing a Rune roll with a Rune Point spend to do something that is appropriate for your deity but isn't a Rune Spell per se? ("improvised divine magic")

Yes, this is Heroic Knowledge from Secrets of HeroQuesting, so you can spend double the Rune Points to cast a spell you don't know if it is reasonable in the HeroQuest.

You could improvise other effects using the same method. If you are on a God Time HeroQuest then you could bring back the new spell as a spell that can be gained through worship, as a SubCult or Hero Cult.

13 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

This ties with my assumption that every time you learn a new Rune spell, you actually undertake a mini-heroquest in which you reenact some deed of your deity.

That's how I play it.

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

From what I understood of JWSSGG, it's very strongly based on the runes.

JWSSGG?

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think you can go wild with augmenting, but you need to be playing a pretty fluid and improvisational style of RQ to be able to use runes to straightforwardly accomplish task

Fortunately, that is exactly how I play RQ.

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

for one thing, most runes cover several skills' worth of ground, so you have to avoid making the skills obsolete.

I wouldn't necessarily use Runes to achieve what skills so, instead I'd allow them to do more than skills would do. So, for example, I could use Insight to tell if someone might be lying or I could use Runic Mastery (Truth) and a Truth Rune Point to act as a Detect Lie spell.

 

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

JWSSGG?

John Wick's Super Simple Glorantha Game, as discussed in the impromptu con.

[jajagappa]

20 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Recently I was reading some old HeroWars/HeroQuest-era cult write-ups and realized that the Rune abilities there can be used for a wide variety of situations.

Yes, they can.  And my players used them to create standard breakouts (effectively like Rune spells, but often a bit more freeform, less specifically defined), used them as augments to other abilities (pretty much the RQG Runic inspiration), used for personality tests/opposed rolls (as you can do in RQG), and sometimes used to try to get new effects (which often after the end of a session became a new breakout ability).

20 hours ago, lordabdul said:

so for instance do you allow Rune rolls or Rune augments to accomplish non-mundane ("semi-magical") actions?

If you think about a Rune augment (e.g. adding +x% to a skill or skill category), you are basically doing the same thing as say casting Bladesharp or similar spell.  And I like to think that this has a magical aspect to it (e.g. winds swirl around your feet or lightning dances around your weapon, etc.).

20 hours ago, lordabdul said:

What about allowing a Rune roll with a Rune Point spend to do something that is appropriate for your deity but isn't a Rune Spell per se? ("improvised divine magic")

I like this idea and think it makes sense.  What I'd probably do is require a roll that is under your Rune and your Cult Lore (or possibly Spirit Lore or Meditation) combined with a Rune point spend.  I'd add in Cult Lore as it allows you to frame the story or deed that you are trying to invoke, along with the Rune that is relevant to the deed, but just have one roll that is below both - the more you understand the lore of your god, the more likely you can frame the story to your needs.

You'd also need to align the Rune point spend with the effect desired.  On a regular success, the effect succeeds, and you lose the Rune point(s).  If it is a special or critical success, I'd say you've learned/added a new, unique Rune spell to your list and you only need to cast it normally after that.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

If you think about a Rune augment (e.g. adding +x% to a skill or skill category), you are basically doing the same thing as say casting Bladesharp or similar spell.  And I like to think that this has a magical aspect to it (e.g. winds swirl around your feet or lightning dances around your weapon, etc.).

that is exactly what I mean, and not only in hero plan, in mundane too, that is just the "augment" system

22 hours ago, lordabdul said:

What about allowing a Rune roll with a Rune Point spend to do something that is appropriate for your deity but isn't a Rune Spell per se? ("improvised divine magic")

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

What I'd probably do is require a roll that is under your Rune and your Cult Lore (or possibly Spirit Lore or Meditation) combined with a Rune point spend.  I'd add in Cult Lore as it allows you to frame the story or deed that you are trying to invoke, along with the Rune that is relevant to the deed, but just have one roll that is below both - the more you understand the lore of your god, the more likely you can frame the story to your needs.

You'd also need to align the Rune point spend with the effect desired.  On a regular success, the effect succeeds, and you lose the Rune point(s).  If it is a special or critical success, I'd say you've learned/added a new, unique Rune spell to your list and you only need to cast it normally after that.

Stop write before me and with better words than me what I think !   I would like to see a more complex (not too much however) system with special /critical. maybe special success is a one use spell and critical success a reusable spell. And of course I add +1d10 in the rune and god devotion for normal success (oh god you are more powerful than I believed before) and +10 for special/critcal success (oh god... and you share this new power with me)

but some issues :

what is the cost for such a non official spell ? 1RP, 2RP (not a big issue, same mechanic than sorcery, that is just a rune story)

 How teaching to other this new spell (if learned) ? becoming an hero of the cult, or no possibity to share the experience ?

and how do you manage the previous gain of your heroquests (there are already differents rules, this post is just another one) when the canon rules will be provided ?

 

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I would like to see a more complex (not too much however) system with special /critical.

Yes, you can certainly go to a more complex level and one-use vs. reusable is an option.  Or, maybe, with a success you have to spend x points POW, with a special it is x Rune points, and a critical is x Rune points but you've now got the reusable spell.

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

what is the cost for such a non official spell ? 1RP, 2RP

RBoM has some discussion about devising new rune spells.  It suggests that a 1RP spell is about 4x more powerful than a 1 point spirit magic (or perhaps that is equal to a point spirit magic, but longer duration).  A 3RP reusable spell is generally the epitome of a primary deity's power (e.g. Humakt Sever Spirit, Yelm Sunspear, Chalana Arroy Resurrection) - and only those principle deities get that reusable at that level.  What you don't want to do is make it too easy to suddenly gain all sorts of powerful Rune spells.

Generally, I'd say find a somewhat similar spell to the desired effect and model on that # of Rune points.  

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

 How teaching to other this new spell (if learned) ? becoming an hero of the cult, or no possibity to share the experience ?

I think you'd need to lead others from the cult on a Heroquest.  Start on a holy day at a temple.  Successful Worship.  Enter the Godtime quest and reenact the myth with others aiding you.  If successful, others now know and remember this quest, but it is specific to the temple.