metcalph Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I think illumination in Kethaela would be most common among the Heroquesting population or the Masters of Luck and Death prospects. There's also Arkat's Hold which would gave a spillover into Heortland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Say the Aeolian priests? Would 1 in 10 of the priests be illuminated or is it more like 1 in 100? I seriously doubt there's any significant number of Illuminates in Heortland or the rest of the Holy Country. There is no indication that this was a practice encouraged or needed by Belintar. And no indication that the Aeolians had any history of illumination. Where you'd find illuminates would be among the Black Arkati (primarily at Arkat's Hold) and they might well be on the watch for followers of Gbaji (i.e. Lunar missionaries) if or when they arrived, and then have missions to eliminate said followers. Might the Lunar missionaries have included illuminates? I'm sure some. Might they have illuminated some residents in the Holy Country? Again, likely. But there was also a lot of anti-Lunar backlash after the assassinations of the heirs of Sartar and again during the attempted Lunar invasion in 1605. The center of Lunar activity (and trade) was primarily Nochet, so you might find some illuminates there up until Samastina's coup, the sack of Moontown, and the subsequent Siege of Nochet. As for Draconic illuminates, probably very, very few. Anything draconic was largely attacked and destroyed during the fall of the EWF and the subsequent Dragonkill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 24 minutes ago, jajagappa said: I seriously doubt there's any significant number of Illuminates in Heortland or the rest of the Holy Country. I didn't think so but as you noted and I thought the Arkati would be likely candidates and there and a few sorcerers I thought there would be some especially where more libraries existed, the large one in Nochet... Was thinking more with the Aeolians but that notion is not agreeable with your thoughts Jaja. I suppose a few PC's becoming illuminated would not be noticed unless they begin to ignore cult restrictions in front of others and or start telling exotic riddles to everyone? Hadn't thought of it that hero questors may very well be more inclined to illumination... I like that notion. Thanks again to you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 12 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: I suppose a few PC's becoming illuminated would not be noticed unless they begin to ignore cult restrictions in front of others and or start telling exotic riddles to everyone? Quite likely the Arkati taught the Storm Bull cult to beware of Riddlers as they are "secret Chaos". And there are a lot of Storm Bulls historically in Heortland. The Aeolian Talars probably have Storm Bull warriors in their entourage to help detect Chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 10 hours ago, jajagappa said: The Aeolian Talars probably have Storm Bull warriors in their entourage to help detect Chaos. But who is chaotic, the ability is not nearly what we supposed it was when we played years ago, not nearly as good as we gamed it: The ability does not single out the source, as a Detect spell would, but rather gives the warrior a vague sense of unease and the knowledge that chaos is close at hand. This was discussed at length in a different thread, how do you triangulate chaos detection... if I were chaotic Id carry a few chaos crystals and leave them appropriately if storm bulls were near, in the storm bulls backpack! Also most of the uroxi were chased off the Plateau by Rickard and his merry men? Don't the Talars (secretly) use tap!? Anyway guessing there are few illuminated individuals based on your input, besides adventurers who venture far and wide or Arkati... thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said: Also most of the uroxi were chased off the Plateau by Rickard and his merry men? Yes, but Rickard doesn't arrive until 1617 and only lasts until 1620. It's a short-lived post-Belintar kingdom, and he brings in some of his western allies to help rule (though marries into an Aeolian talar family to help establish his power). The Storm Bulls go over to Prax or go north to join Broyan. 1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said: how do you triangulate chaos detection... It has the same value as a Humakti's Sense Assassin - these abilities give warning and it's close enough to trigger it. 1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said: Don't the Talars (secretly) use tap!? No! You've got to go to Ralios to find Malkioni schools that use Tap. (And Talars can't - they aren't sorcerers.) 1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said: Anyway guessing there are few illuminated individuals based on your input, besides adventurers who venture far and wide or Arkati... Yes, keep it minimal (and probably urban) so it pops up only unexpectedly. Perhaps a few more come in the wake of the Lunar invasion in 1620 and linger subsequently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 (edited) Backford Orphanage: This is so funny, I am looking for details on The Sump - Olorost in the Upland Marsh and end up wishing to detail an orphanage in Backford... I love Glorantha. So placing an orphanage in Backford, I have the old Rule 1 source for a Red Moon Mission at Runegate which could easily be used as a starting point for planning this out but I hoping to hear other ides or expansions as to how many children would be there, where are they from, etc. Has anyone elaborated on an orphanage in Sartar or Heortland... Also there is Queen Ogzag's Hall from TotRM 12 p.40. which could be another source, less the Hell Sisters but then, were the Lunars in control of Backford or other areas of the Plateau long enough to have transferred any orphanage's management to Teelo Norri from Chalana? For me some orphans would be from Sartar, some from displaced farms or settlements near Jab Hills that escaped. Other ideas? From the great Nochet book we have so many samples: Sanctuary of the Youth, Great Hospital of the Sisters of Mercy, Delaina’s Foundlings, Whitehall, Mud Daughters, Distaff of the Dove Society, Orphan’s Rest, etc. Makes me think there are 100's if not 1000's of orphans in Nochet. How many orphans would there be as a guess in Backford knowing they'd be taking in any from the surrounding areas and even some that travelled down from Sartar? Interesting article on Orphans in Mediterranean antiquity and Early Christianity: https://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1015-87582016000200003 Interesting to note that the article says "only one or two of every ten men reaching the age of marriage would still have a father alive". Glorantha is "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get". Edited August 4 by Erol of Backford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: the Lunars in control of Backford or other areas of the Plateau long enough to have transferred any orphanage's management to Teelo Norri from Chalana? Lunars are in control in Backford (and all the way to Durengard) from 1620 to early 1624. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 If we are talking about Backford under Belintar's reign, might orphanages run by/for the Godking be recruiting centers for some of the special denizens/organizations in the City of Wonders? 1 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 3 hours ago, Joerg said: If we are talking about Backford under Belintar's reign, might orphanages run by/for the Godking be recruiting centers for some of the special denizens/organizations in the City of Wonders? Was thinking more along the lines of a trained military (who does farming of course) that would be loyal to Belintar but fighting chaos at the Footprint or guarding caravans, not cooks, butlers and chamber maids... at least for those orphans local to Backford. Possibly the brightest or most beautiful would be sent to the City of Wonders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 Jaja, what % of the Syphon Valley would you say is covered with trees/woods? Would the forested areas become more dense on the sides as the Syphon approached Stonewood? What about the Heortland Plateau itself, we spoke to this in the past and IIRC you felt good portion of the Plateau was cleared for farming but surely there are streams/creeks/brooks running from the Plateau into the river valleys which have some trees along the banks? Also as you get closer to the Stomwalk Mts and enter the foothills there would be a higher percentage of wooded areas I am guessing? Would it be 20-25% covered in the foothills? Your thoughts and thank you Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 I am looking to place a shipwreck in the Mirrorsea Bay or the Troll Strait? Are areas of the bay or straights normally foggy? Are there storms strong enough to make a ship run aground, are there sandbars and or reefs? if not could always have some monster attack the ship... Marshy areas might be a place to run aground... How deep is it generally? Joerg did you happen to do a nautical chart when you were developing the islands in the Bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: I am looking to place a shipwreck in the Mirrorsea Bay or the Troll Strait? Are areas of the bay or straights normally foggy? Are there storms strong enough to make a ship run aground, are there sandbars and or reefs? if not could always have some monster attack the ship... Marshy areas might be a place to run aground... How deep is it generally? All these questions are answered in: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/452062/ships-shores-of-southern-genertela 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: I am looking to place a shipwreck in the Mirrorsea Bay or the Troll Strait? Are areas of the bay or straights normally foggy? Are there storms strong enough to make a ship run aground, are there sandbars and or reefs? if not could always have some monster attack the ship... Marshy areas might be a place to run aground... How deep is it generally? Joerg did you happen to do a nautical chart when you were developing the islands in the Bay? Shipwrecks are possible throughout the bay, despite (or possibly even because) of the calm surface. Where other coastal waters warn the sailors of reefs by the breakers atop of these, the Mirrorsea remains calm even where underwater rocks almost pierce the surface. As the tide slowly creeps inward, any trace of earlier surface presence will be pushed onto the shores, requiring a good knowledge of the Bay or excellent lookouts, ideally both. I am working on a bathymetric map (currently more off than on), but the intertidal will see some shifting of tidal channels even without any significant wave action, and the active volcanism of the Vent and its children occasionally affects the sea bottom, too. And that doesn't account for migratory boulders (like the tamed one of Mt. Passant). Even with wave formation suppressed, vessels above the water will experience the full force of the gales, and currents might push in a different direction. Waves and currents are animated entities in Glorantha, often enough behaving like such things would in our world, but with the potential to break out of such behavior. We know that the Waertagi used Sog, the tidal wave, to move their city-ships to the (now defunct) docks at Nochet. The rivers of Kethaela have an ongoing presence on and underneath the surface of Choralinthor even though they mingle with the general water of the bay. The Syphon current toils against the general outward trend, carrying cooler and salty water from the depths into the lower canyons of the bay before surfacing north of the tidal flat off Gardufar. Currents and counter currents will create occasional whirlpools pulling surface water and whatever drifts in it down to the bottom of the bay. The Blue Moon tidal rush through Troll Strait might be the most impressive coastal current in Inner World Glorantha, with only phenomena like the Doom Currents or the Bezarngay Boil dwarfing it. In the early stages, the tidal flats are emptied possibly as dramatic, in a massive southward rush even before collecting in the tidal channels. Near the shores, the Blue Moon fall will be over in less than an hour IMG, while the aftermath in the Troll Strait might take twice as long after the Rightarm barrier has fallen dry and the rest of the water funnels through the strait. The influence of the weekly tide reflected by the Red Moon will affect the starting and ending conditions for this event, but won't contribute a lot to the currents called by the Blue Moon. Getting caught in the tidal outrush may be a massive test to the navigator and helmsperson, possibly less for oared vessels than for sailed ones. While a lot of the intertidal has sand or mud at its bottom, there are plenty rocky outcrops that the sailors may have to avoid. A ship caught on the dry in the tidal flats may attract attackers. Sea trolls might advance in the night, possibly aided by giant crabs. There might be duck or newtling pirates, and of course human ones. The local Ludoch are generally friendly or at least neutral towards the coastal fisherfolk as long as they respect their directions. Non-native sailors might be less lucky when they ignorantly stray into taboo areas of the bay. ysabbau or Gnydron sightings would be extremely rare these days, although Belintar's City of Wonders may well have attracted some in previous years. A pod of ysabbau coming up Troll Strait to collect a ritual tribute from the city after 1624 might cause an interesting incident. The return of the Waertagi Hell fleets may affect the Bay, too. When I was using the Thieves World box for Refuge (modified a bit like in that article in Tatou), I felt that the fish-eyed Beysib sea folk fleeing to Sanctuary to escape their crazed compatriots would be a plot line easily transferable to Waertagi who somehow sat out the Closing on the surface (as in the "Aftal the Waertagi" story fragment in Missing Lands, or in coastal or island colonies like the Edrenlin one off the Errinoru Jungle) might wish to distance themselves from these hellions and seek refuge with ancient allies. Of course there are storms and shifting winds even though there is a general westerly or southwesterly wind moving across Kethaela. Local island winds might sweep out into the bay, too. Glorantha is a place where every major (locally known) storm god has a mountain lair, and that means every peak or hill may have its own storm waiting to descend on the surrounding lands at a whim or a minor provocation. We know there are dunes on the shores of Heortland. These would be home to local winds, too, building and shifting their homes from dried sediment in the intertidal, sediment that gets replenished annually when the snow melt or major rainstorms flood the hinterland and carries out brown "tides" into the bay. Just follow the news on Austria, Chechia and Poland these days. (The dunes themselves may be earth entities almost as rapacious as the storms that build them up, crawling along the coasts to swallow stuff, or the unruly children of local storms and land goddesses.) The lack of major wave action might lull foreign sailors into a false security. Friendly keelwave spirits might be dulled in their perception of obstacles. And sea trolls might erect underwater spikes as ship traps, as might coast dwellers feeling they are owed a greater portion of the wealth draded off their beaches. 1 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Are areas of the bay or straights normally foggy? All along the Heortland coast where the SW winds push the clouds and trap them against the high cliffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 21 minutes ago, jajagappa said: All along the Heortland coast where the SW winds push the clouds and trap them against the high cliffs. In my personal experience, walking through a cloud creeping along coastal elevations (e.g. on the Isle of Skye) is a lot less limiting your sight than a heavy seaside fog like you experience in Cornwall, less than 100 meters above sea level. Heavy Iphara fogs tend to form when the winds take some time off. Given the rather high temperature of the Rozgali and Solkathi currents, and thereby also the Choralinthor Bay, heavy fogs may be a common occurrance in the mornings, and possibly throughout Dark Season. The Windstop may have seen fogs in varying degrees throughout its effect, only fought back gradually by the sun or settling down as hoar frost by night. 1 1 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 12 hours ago, Joerg said: And that doesn't account for migratory boulders (like the tamed one of Mt. Passant). Where is this from, would like to read up on it. 12 hours ago, Joerg said: The Syphon current toils against the general outward trend, carrying cooler and salty water from the depths into the lower canyons of the bay before surfacing north of the tidal flat off Gardufar. Currents and counter currents will create occasional whirlpools pulling surface water and whatever drifts in it down to the bottom of the bay. I like this, might explain some ships disappearing if they appear suddenly... 12 hours ago, Joerg said: Tatou I couldn't fight my way through it in French, just like the Nomad Gods/Prax game I bought back in the day, the counters are nice though... 12 hours ago, Joerg said: A ship caught on the dry in the tidal flats may attract attackers. Sea trolls might advance in the night, possibly aided by giant crabs. I like this idea a lot... they are based in a "Sea Cave" maybe... 13 hours ago, Joerg said: ysabbau or Gnydron sightings would be extremely rare these days, although Belintar's City of Wonders may well have attracted some in previous years. A pod of ysabbau coming up Troll Strait to collect a ritual tribute from the city after 1624 might cause an interesting incident. It might be they are dwelling just out of the Troll Straight and target ships when exiting or entering. There are of course regular pirates who would have been less frequent at about 1600. Maybe a link to Barran the Monster Killer? Lots to think on. I'll take a look at the Ships and Shores on the Drive Thru.. Thank you all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Tuesday at 03:42 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 03:42 PM So the next question is are there records of Thanatari on the Heartland Plateau. Yes of course anything chaotic could come out of the Print... but is there anything in print? Also makes me wonder if a scorpion queen eats a thanatari would it be reborn still connected to its heads or would she become the master? IIRC there is a scorpionman Thanatari in the wastes in some caves but only an initiate... What if K'rana from Lords of Terror was reworked to also be a Thanatri and took some heads... that'd be fearsome enough and fit with the Jab Hills and the Print? I like the idea that Yelmalions are like paladins which Ali hinted at. I have been working on them, developing a stronger presence in Backford. They are building a barracks with a shrine/temple and will be assisting with the suppression of the chaos from the Print and Jab Hills. They are much more accepting of women in my Glorantha, especially on the Plateau, currently of the main 8 PC's 5 are women. 2 would be Emalians/Yelmalians... (yes I still like and include Elmal). How many Yemalians would be on the Plateau as Elamians I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfbrandi Posted Tuesday at 08:21 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:21 PM 4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Also makes me wonder if a scorpion queen eats a thanatari would it be reborn still connected to its heads? The secret origin of the headhanger. 1 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted Tuesday at 09:15 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 09:15 PM 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: So the next question is are there records of Thanatari on the Heartland Plateau. Yes of course anything chaotic could come out of the Print... but is there anything in print? Not to my knowledge. 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Also makes me wonder if a scorpion queen eats a thanatari would it be reborn still connected to its heads or would she become the master? I'd give preference to the scorpion queen, certainly if its Gagix (who is the only named Chaotic hero/villain in the Holy Country). [If you follow the 13G Chaos Rising campaign, the Thanatari work in as low to mid-tier foes within the larger struggle against Gagix.] 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: What if K'rana from Lords of Terror was reworked to also be a Thanatri and took some heads... that'd be fearsome enough and fit with the Jab Hills and the Print? Personally, I go for Malkioni wizards, dark trolls, and wind children being consumed and transformed there. 5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: How many Yemalians would be on the Plateau as Elamians I suppose? Heortland is the Sixth of Storm for a reason - it's even more Orlanthi than Sartar (plus you've got winds/clouds blowing in regularly, the Storm Mountains, etc.). So in my Heortland, Fire/Light worshippers are very minimal there. If you go by the Cult % charts in the Mythology book, then it's less than 1% and part of the Other category, so less than 5000, and more likely ~1000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM 30 minutes ago, jajagappa said: 13G Chaos Rising campaign How did I never read that!? "EPIC OF GAGIX TWO-BARB" 40 minutes ago, jajagappa said: more likely ~1000 So having a couple files in Backford wouldn't be crazy especially if they have some relation with Vannataar? (YGMV) I do like the 10% chance of being Aeolian... 1 hour ago, mfbrandi said: The secret origin of the headhanger. Or it eats itself from the inside as the heads fail to manifest on the exterior and it turns to... its been like 40 years since I have seen that picture. Should have posted it in the flashback thread. Make me smile. Head hangers would be great chaos horrors, maybe add chaotic gift of 12 point armor, surely would cause some fear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted Wednesday at 12:22 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 12:22 AM 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: How did I never read that!? "EPIC OF GAGIX TWO-BARB" There's a lot of great ideas in 13G. "The Horn of Snakepipe Hollow" would work well for a village situated above the Footprint. The Lost Myth of "Fangplace" would work in the Uncertain Woods south from Stormwalk Mountain. The Broken Myth of the "River Crossing" could be placed along one of the Heortland rivers. 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: So having a couple files in Backford wouldn't be crazy especially if they have some relation with Vannataar? (YGMV) I do like the 10% chance of being Aeolian... I think most Yelmalions/Elmali in Heortland will be in the cities, possibly as guards for the City Rex. There's about 50k Aeolians out of the 500k Heortland population. Majority are either in Esvular or the cities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Wednesday at 10:38 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 10:38 PM 22 hours ago, jajagappa said: I think most Yelmalions/Elmali in Heortland will be in the cities, possibly as guards for the City Rex Seems to fit well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Thursday at 01:58 AM Author Share Posted Thursday at 01:58 AM On 10/1/2024 at 7:22 PM, jajagappa said: The Broken Myth of the "River Crossing" could be placed along one of the Heortland rivers. Downstream from Backford, near the Print... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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