Eff Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, mfbrandi said: I refer your honour to Exhibit A — which has Orlanth outside the universe, though they didn’t go there: it is just what they are. As I — feebly! — grasp it, IG has at least two functions: (a) to be removed from Creation; (b) to be top god, above mere saints and burtae. So I made Yelm/top god the Inside and Orlanth the Outside. The One and the Zero. Then Orlanth’s blow against Yelm was reimagined as an act of mutual benefit, an opening of communication between Inside and Outside, rather than a murder. None of this would be accepted by orthodox Malkioni, Orlanthi, or Yelmies, of course; they would rightly say that it does violence to their subtle, beautiful, and true cosmologies. All the astrological/astronomical stuff and the stepping outside of the universe fits with the plundered Mithraism, too. (Though, again, not in-keeping with real Mithraism, whatever the hell that was like.) And we all know what we find outside the universe … [cue spooky music] Mmm. I think I would say that the functional role of the Invisible God in a Malkioni context is to distinguish between the demiurgic Malkion and the greater being that all Malkioni (including Brithini) agreed must have created the ultimately flawed Malkion. But of course in the Revealed Mythologies material, creation proceeds through the various manifestations of Malkion, all of whom have their own names, except for the initial progression from 1 -> 3 (Matter, Energy, Intellect). So in this Malkioni context the Invisible God is invisible because it predates any means of detecting its existence. And by the time that the Carmanians are engaged in their anabasis, the broad split over whether to understand the demiurge as good or evil is already taking place, and Syranthir's people are firmly on the Irensavelist/"evil demiurge" side, which they assign the name Makan (in response to the Makanist propositions of certain God Learner groups yada yada). Once they've developed their own religious identity, though, they reframe matters so that there's a good demiurge and a bad demiurge who are initially equals, and then the Revealed Mythologies Malkion the Seer/Sacrifice is reframed as a servant of the good demiurge. So I think that equating Yelm = Idovanus and Orlanth = Ganesataurus doesn't really work, because nobody else in Glorantha sees them as initially social equals/twin siblings, Yelm really isn't depicted in a demiurgic role of creating the material world, and of course, there's that whole Truth and Lies thing with Idovanus and Ganesataurus. I think that Lodril and Dayzatar are both better equations for Idovanus (Dayzatar probably somewhat better as a truth-associated deity and an abstract being of light, but Lodril does make things with his hands) and Ganesataurus, if you have to equate them with anybody, would probably be best-equated with Kazkurtum = Basko, a celestial entity of Darkness with the Illusion Rune, and so associated somewhat with lies and deception. Or with Trickster, if you want to make Trickster malevolent enough, and then the Yelm and Orlanth battle would be an example of the kind of lesser skirmishes between Truth and Lies where it may be unclear who's on what side, just enough to satisfy sun-worship and storm-worship and get the Light and Dark phases in. 2 Quote Though a Lunar through and through, she is also a human being. "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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