jajagappa Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Eagle Talon said: Is Sheng Seleris considered a solar emperor? Can some like him be able to pass the 10 tests to become emperor of Dara Happa? After all the pent nomads are enemies of DH since before the dawn. Yes, he can - many of the Pentans descend directly from Yelm. Yes, he can pass the 10 tests to become Emperor. As Peter noted, there have been a number of horse nomad Emperors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Biles Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 9 hours ago, JRE said: Makes me wonder if Anstad was really so attractive, or if it was the right time to have the usurper leave the scene and Jar-Eel just let him die to allow her son free access to the throne. Motive and benefit. Think of the Kwisatz Haderach. Anstad? 4 hours ago, Eagle Talon said: Is Sheng Seleris considered a solar emperor? Can some like him be able to pass the 10 tests to become emperor of Dara Happa? After all the pent nomads are enemies of DH since before the dawn. A dragon once passed the Ten Tests, and Sheng does come from a Solar culture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, John Biles said: Anstad? Annstad of Dunstop, Fazzur's younger son who became one of Argrath's main allies as King of Tarsh after Mularik Iron-Eye. At the Battle of Dwernapple in 1638 he and Jar-Eel fell in love and quit the field (which was part of what allowed Argrath to score a great victory there). We don't know what becomes of him after that, just that he's recorded as dying 5 years after that. I don't really credit the idea that it was a calculated move on her part to remove Annstad, though, for two reasons. First is that Jar-Eel was winning the fight when it happened; if her goal was to kill Annstad, nothing was stopping her from just doing it right there on the field. He'd lost all his men and she had a whole host of terrors to back her up to finish him off. Second, Annstad lived for at least 5 years after the battle, so if her plan was to get him out of the way, she sure took her sweet time of it after throwing away a chance to do it right then and there. Edited June 28, 2023 by Leingod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 5 hours ago, jajagappa said: Yes, he can pass the 10 tests to become Emperor. Did he actually do it (or even try) though, in either of his runs? I don’t question that he could have (it’s such a coincidence that the guy with the biggest army always turns out to be the True Emperor, isn’t it?), but did he bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRE Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Leingod said: I don't really credit the idea that it was a calculated move on her part to remove Annstad, though, for two reasons. First is that Jar-Eel was winning the fight when it happened; if her goal was to kill Annstad, nothing was stopping her from just doing it right there on the field. He'd lost all his men and she had a whole host of terrors to back her up to finish him off. Second, Annstad lived for at least 5 years after the battle, so if her plan was to get him out of the way, she sure took her sweet time of it after throwing away a chance to do it right then and there. Not to kill Annstad, but to have Argrath kill the False Emperor, which will open the door for Phargentes to claim the throne. I agree with Nick Brooke's theory that the False Emperor is a rightful solar emperor, mainly because Dara Happa will be the main part of the Empire that does not secede. So he has to die before Phargentes can take the tests and reunify the Red Empire. Phargentes will need that the Emperor dies at Dwernapple. Edited June 28, 2023 by JRE change the tense to the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Brooke Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 8:34 AM, JRE said: I agree with Nick Brooke's theory that the False Emperor is a rightful solar emperor, mainly because Dara Happa will be the main part of the Empire that does not secede. That’s not a “theory,” that’s a nightmare scenario. It says so in the section header. 1 Quote Community Ambassador - Jonstown Compendium, Chaosium, Inc. Email: nick.brooke@chaosium.com for community content queries Jonstown Compendium ⧖ Facebook Ф Twitter † old website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRE Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 And yet, if he manages to last ten years and keep Dara Happa in the Empire, he needs to be acceptable to the Yelmites. That is why it makes sense to me, and why Phargentes had to wait till Argrath killed the Emperor to make his own bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Brooke Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, JRE said: And yet, if he manages to last ten years and keep Dara Happa in the Empire, he needs to be acceptable to the Yelmites. That is why it makes sense to me, and why Phargentes had to wait till Argrath killed the Emperor to make his own bid. I was concerned about your misrepresentation of my material. A "nightmare scenario" isn't my theory about what will happen, it's just one worst-case scenario. I encourage you to develop others, because (all together now) Your Glorantha Will Vary. 1 1 Quote Community Ambassador - Jonstown Compendium, Chaosium, Inc. Email: nick.brooke@chaosium.com for community content queries Jonstown Compendium ⧖ Facebook Ф Twitter † old website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRE Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 No, I know. I just wanted to give you credit, as it makes a lot of sense, even if you were trying to fit together Greg's Lunar break up and Martin Laurie's simplified Moonson in a horrifying package. And I would consider a worst case scenario a theory on what are the boundary conditions. I do not remember if we have a name for the False Emperor. Could he be Simplicius Simplicissimus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, JRE said: I do not remember if we have a name for the False Emperor. Renovus. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/notes-on-the-lunar-empire-1639-1648/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRE Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 According to that reference, Phargentes name as emperor is Invictus, and I assume Kazkurturm is a bad solar emperor, to be referred with the name of the Empty Emperor. At first I assumed Kazkurturm was Sheng Seleris, but the text specifies that Sheng destroys (and surely devours) Invictus, while Renovus and Kazkuturm are between Argenteus and Invictus. Ralzakark comes after Sheng is out, so he is not in the list either. So that Kazkuturm is a bad but legitimate Solar Emperor, whose real name is not known, before Invictus/Phargentes give the empire a last flash of glory. QED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, JRE said: According to that reference, Phargentes name as emperor is Invictus, and I assume Kazkurturm is a bad solar emperor, to be referred with the name of the Empty Emperor. At first I assumed Kazkurturm was Sheng Seleris, but the text specifies that Sheng destroys (and surely devours) Invictus, while Renovus and Kazkuturm are between Argenteus and Invictus. Ralzakark comes after Sheng is out, so he is not in the list either. So that Kazkuturm is a bad but legitimate Solar Emperor, whose real name is not known, before Invictus/Phargentes give the empire a last flash of glory. QED. Kazkurtum can also refer to the time without an Emperor. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRE Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 You are right, but honestly it is dull. I would expect the Lunars to call that Great Sister's regency, or the Time of the Satraps, or the Great Dart War, and not a Yelmite term for a bad or absent emperor. And it fits so well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) It's a list of Emperors, not a chronology. The scribes aren't going to put in anything that doesn't convey the sense of an unbroken chain of succession from Yelm. If the folks in Glamour spent the entire period cowering before Aelwrin Beatpot and his Chef's Special, the scribes are still going record Kazkurtum as the Emperor at the time. Edited July 1, 2023 by metcalph 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 8:20 AM, Akhôrahil said: On 6/28/2023 at 2:32 AM, jajagappa said: Yes, he can pass the 10 tests to become Emperor. Did he actually do it (or even try) though, in either of his runs? I don’t question that he could have (it’s such a coincidence that the guy with the biggest army always turns out to be the True Emperor, isn’t it?), but did he bother? I don't think that he bothered, but his nephews did and were ambushed by the Red Emperor dressed in fish scales, as Basko, and he killed them, I think, unless I am mixing HeroQuests. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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