Yelmalio Analogy for changes over the years

[theconfusingeel]

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

That's just Antirius. Reladivus Kargzant was present for Umath's invasion of the Sky, and was the one planetary son of Yelm not leaving the sky. He started his wanderings then. There may have been other Lightfores even older.

Otherwise, I still think that statement captures a lot of this cult's nature.

Shargash until the collision with Umath was a Golden Age warrior cult as well - there is this comical scene where he and his drummers all but drown standing before the advancing Sshorg(a) before Murharzarm had her turned into (somewhat) tamed Oslira. When Shargash dove down into Hell to dismember Umath, he merged with a being of Hell, Shadzor, and emerged changed, a brutal monster often without any civilized restraint. And we know what became of Verithurus(a).

Yelorna doesn't show up in the Dara Happan catalogues, except maybe her birth as one of the many stars in the wake of Zator leaving the Sky Dome through Stormgate.

Well I think you're deviating from cannon so I can't really argue with that.

[Malin]

4 hours ago, Videopete said:

It's one of the reasons I wish RQG offered an option for characters that don't start start as initiates. 

One of the players in my post-dragonrise sartar campaign is not initated into anything. I just gave him 3 extra POW to simulate that he hadn't used them for runepoints. So far he hasn't felt underpowered compared to the others, we'll see if he wants to initiate into something eventually.

[Joerg]

The Antirius/Portion of Yelm story is just one true story about the origin of Lightfore, but clearly not the only one. Or the only canonical one. The Planetary Son Reladivus is Lightfore. The planet rose into the sky again (?) at the onset of the Silver Age/Gray Age, according to the Yuthuppan star watchers, well before the Dawn. It kept wandering across the stars, giving his aid to the survival of people.

In or around 110 S.T. there was a celestial event called the Bridling of Kargzant. Afterwards Reladivus moved on the Sunpath, as did Antirius, the portion of Yelm that remained to shed light on Dara Happa after Yelm's dismemberment and which rose again after the Dawn, traversing the Sunpath at night.

The first cult of Sun Dome Templars was spread by the Bright Empire and its hero Palangio after the Battle of Night and Day (in 378 S.T.).

[Rodney Dangerduck]

9 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

By this logic, why bother listing spirit magic by cult at all?  Just assume anybody can learn anything.

Some claimed that Yelmalio's lack of combat battle magic is no big deal - just be a polytheist and buy it elsewhere.  This was intended to refute that.  Because we know that a cults available spirit magic is significant both mythically and monetarily. 

Edited June 14 by Rodney Dangerduck

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Planetary Son Reladivus is Lightfore.

Actually that's making an assumption that Reladivus = Kargzant/Lightfore, which is never stated in GRoY.

There's a footnote on p.32 in relation to Jenarong who supposedly (per Plentonius) descends from the Starlight Wanderer, a god - where the note states "Probably Reladivus or Kargzant". 

p.73 has "Kargzant follows Umatum, circling behind and low." in a spot where you might expect Reladivus. But, this may be an assumption by Plentonius.

p.28 in discussing the residents of Nivorah says "They rode upon the equine children of their goddess, Gamara, and followed the commands of their father, Kargzant." But, since no one has yet found Nivorah, and this is a comment from Plentonius, it only suggests an attempt to link Kargzant to Nivorah via Gamara.

 

[Jens]

58 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

that's making an assumption that Reladivus = Kargzant/Lightfore

The Prosopaedia states "Reladivus is often associated with Kargzant", so it's current canon.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

4 hours ago, Malin said:

One of the players in my post-dragonrise sartar campaign is not initated into anything. I just gave him 3 extra POW to simulate that he hadn't used them for runepoints. So far he hasn't felt underpowered compared to the others, we'll see if he wants to initiate into something eventually.

How did you handle starting bonuses to cult skills?  And cult or occupational checks between adventures?

We had a few non-initiates in RQ2, but, in RQG, with reusable rune magic, which is generally easy to revover, they seem suboptimal.  I'd be interested in hearing if & when your player changes their mind.  🙂

[Malin]

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

How did you handle starting bonuses to cult skills?  And cult or occupational checks between adventures?

He was an ex-Lunar soldier who was a lay member in Yanafal Tarnils like most soldiers were, so I allowed him the Humakti starter skills since they fitted his background (this was before the Lunar Way). I never limit people by cult occupational skills between adventures, I tend to focus more on whether they have had a chance of using them (which I see cult and profession as shorthand for). Thus there's no real issue there for me.

It will be interesting to see whether he decides on a god, he is a deserter now so maybe he'll find one who fits him. He was kinda charmed by an Odalaya rebel he met last session, so who knows. So far only two people really use their rune spells very much (divination is a favorite).

Edited June 14 by Malin

[radmonger]

21 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

How did you handle starting bonuses to cult skills? 

Presumably the cult skills in the character creation rules for initiates were actually taught to them while they were sill lay members. 

In a rural clan, someone who is not an initiate either failed their initiation heroquest or get exiled from the clan before it happened. Maybe some clans don't initiate their thralls, though I think it is usually the other way round.

In a big city, drifting into adulthood without successfully completing an apprenticeship is more likely, especially in cities where Teelo Norri soup kitchens are active. Without that, anyone without the social support to get initiated is going to have difficulty surviving to adulthood.

Either way, if they tried and failed, they still have the training. If they haven't tried yet, they will still be a lay member of whatever organisation kept them alive (e.g. Teelo Norri or Lanbril), and got equivalent training from them  It would take a determined exercise in creative writing to produce a backstory for  an 18 year old without cult skills .

Even someone literally raised by wolves will be a lay member of Telmor...

 

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, Jens said:

The Prosopaedia states "Reladivus is often associated with Kargzant", so it's current canon.

"Often associated" may simply mean that the adherents to Plentonius' works believe so. Reladivus is a largely unknown entity and Nivorah a largely unknown place and both disappeared. Both are often associated with horses and horse deities. But that doesn't make Reladivus = Kargzant any more than the association of herding makes Varnaval = Voriof.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

Presumably the cult skills in the character creation rules for initiates were actually taught to them while they were sill lay members. 

Not as I read RQG: you initiate at ~16 and get gradually trained until you graduate to "adventurer status" at age 21.

However, I agree that it is somewhat reasonable to say that non-initiates still got  training along the way, perhaps for an extra charge, pull from their family, etc...

[Ironwall]

On 6/13/2024 at 9:19 PM, Videopete said:

Then during the 3rd age, one of the members of the dynasty "figured out" (through God Leaner shenanigans) thar Yelmalio was Elmal, wich in my mind doesn't work as Elmal was a trusted friend and in charge of guarding the homestead, while Yelmalio is more antagonistic to Orlanth.  This is where the OH, they were thr same guy, routine doesn't work.

Counter point: Orlanth could have sought out Yelmalio to protect the stead. Since the two were foes and fought often they would know each other's strengths and weakness and Orlanth would know Yelmalio was the only one strong enough to withstand the darkness.

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

"Often associated" may simply mean that the adherents to Plentonius' works believe so. Reladivus is a largely unknown entity and Nivorah a largely unknown place and both disappeared. Both are often associated with horses and horse deities. But that doesn't make Reladivus = Kargzant any more than the association of herding makes Varnaval = Voriof.

Kargzant is mentioned for Umath's invasion of the sky as one of the planetary sons (as those, Stormgate,Umath, Dendara and Yelm were the only objects visible in the sky. Other lists have Reladivus for the same rune and location. While you might make them two different Lightfore deities, that only adds another pre-dismemberment appearance of Lightfore Yelmalio.

[Joerg]

Speaking of another Yelmalio name, what do you all think about Yamsur? Is he a different Kargzant/Yelmalio, or is he the one worshipped e.g. by the Praxians who are counted as Yelmalio worshippers?

[David Scott]

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

Speaking of another Yelmalio name, what do you all think about Yamsur? Is he a different Kargzant/Yelmalio, or is he the one worshipped e.g. by the Praxians who are counted as Yelmalio worshippers?

He died in the God's War (see the prosopaedia). 

[Joerg]

38 minutes ago, David Scott said:

He died in the God's War (see the prosopaedia). 

So did Yelm. True, Yamsur seems to have died at Earthfall, a battle notorious for its permanent deaths. But Yamsur (as) Hyalor apparently survived (because he did not participate in Earthfall), and has an ongoing existance in (the cults of) Kargzant, Yu-Kargzant and Elmal (in the 1550ies). Much like Vadrus has in some of his sons.