Binding "for ever"

[Darius West]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:30 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

In my opinion we should answer other questions before :

why does someone bind for ever an entity ?

That is easy to answer...  Lineage.  You can pass the entity on to one's descendants or one's favored students like any other form of property.  It is just like slavery, only potentially eternal, like the poor genie in Aladdin and the Lamp.

Of course the entity might also be bound eternally because it has been very very naughty.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Darius West

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

That is easy to answer...  Lineage.  You can pass the entity on to one's descendants or one's favored students like any other form of property.  It is just like slavery, only potentially eternal, like the poor genie in Aladdin and the Lamp.

Of course the entity might also be bound eternally because it has been very very naughty.

So there is something like cult of ancestor expected

so there is someone who has to "reenact something"

so there is someone to rebind the spirit 😛

 

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

So there is something like cult of ancestor expected

so there is someone who has to "reenact something"

so there is someone to rebind the spirit 😛

That sounds like a lot of pointless make-work to me.  Why not just keep the damned thing bottled for use?  This is why I like the Godlearners... Practicality.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

That sounds like a lot of pointless make-work to me.  Why not just keep the damned thing bottled for use?  This is why I like the Godlearners... Practicality.

because it is not how it works by raw.

No problem to house rules, but to use your word, it is "pointless" to consider that's  the life time condition is a non sense. that's not practical from a gloranthan perspective, I agree, that could be "for ever", I agree,

But, imo, that's better from a gloranthan background perspective : you need to keep the contact with your community, you need to worship. that's not for nothing if a wyter is mandatory to keep a sustainable community.

Spells, conditions, limits,... are not here to be just "practical" (after all where are the god learners now ?) they are here to maintain the world, the communities, etc...

Now IRL :

How many players consider "couvade" as a practical spell ? How many players, then, consider "[weapon] trance" as a practical spell ?

 

in fact, tre true practical thing is how we play what is important

On a table when GM said "you get a ring with a spirit inside" , if the table doesn't care, there is nothing to define (is it for ever or no ? don't care, we will end the play before the end of ever) 🙂

but considering that there is a lifetime condition offers the GM a hook :  there is someone alive, someone who is the "true owner" of the spirit inside the ring - so the ring itself maybe - this one may want to get back its precious ?

If you consider lifetime condition as an useless condition, you have not this hook (not a problem, of course, you're smart enough to have other options)

 

[Erol of Backford]

If you kill a creature with armoring enchantments on its body possibly made by another, long since past away, assume the enchantments were permanent, could you not skin the creature and wear its skin as armor, assuming the enchantments were not destroyed? We always played that enchantments were permanent and not linked to the person who made them? I recall seeing an illustration where some character was wearing a cloak made of peoples faces, not sure where I saw this.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

8 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

We always played that enchantments were permanent and not linked to the person who made them?

Enchantments can (and often do) have Use Conditions. Those can be linked to any number of conditions, including only usable by the person who made them (thus rendering them useless after they die).  Use Conditions require additional POW to be set, though, so there's always limits as to what conditions may be placed on an enchantment.  Generally, I'd expect temples to set the most conditions as they will have more individuals who can contribute POW, and more individuals willing to do so for the greater good (i.e. value to temple and god).

[Erol of Backford]

3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Enchantments can (and often do) have Use Conditions.

Understood but if I enchanted my skin to have armor I'd not likely put a restriction on it? If there were run amuck enchantment theft like car jacking in Chicago someone might put user restrictions on an enchantment but for the years I played Rune Quest we never had NPC's or even PC's that went around detecting for magic in order to steal enchantments for the public at large...

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If you kill a creature with armoring enchantments on its body possibly made by another, long since past away, assume the enchantments were permanent, could you not skin the creature and wear its skin as armor, assuming the enchantments were not destroyed?

Why do you think it is the skin that is enchanted, and not the entire limb/body? Taking the body apart will break the object the enchantment was cast upon. Best "re-use" would be a zombie or mummy bodyguard.

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Understood but if I enchanted my skin to have armor I'd not likely put a restriction on it?

What's the enchantment for? Say it holds a bound spirit - just because it's on your body doesn't mean someone else couldn't cast a command spell on the spirit (and even have it attack you!). 

Now, if it's only an armoring enchantment (dropped in RQG, but if you're playing RQ3 then you'll still have that), there's not much else you can do with it, so usage becomes less important, but someone could remove your limb carefully to preserve the enchantment and then remove the skin so that they could use it as armor for themselves. 

[PhilHibbs]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If you kill a creature with armoring enchantments on its body possibly made by another, long since past away, assume the enchantments were permanent, could you not skin the creature and wear its skin as armor, assuming the enchantments were not destroyed? We always played that enchantments were permanent and not linked to the person who made them?

There is nothing that says that the enchantment goes away on death. The active binding holding the spirit goes, but the enchantment remains. Same for all other enchantments, they last until damage or decay breaks them.

Edited March 3, 2023 by PhilHibbs

[Erol of Backford]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:22 AM, jajagappa said:

Now, if it's only an armoring enchantment (dropped in RQG, but if you're playing RQ3 then you'll still have that), there's not much else you can do with it, so usage becomes less important, but someone could remove your limb carefully to preserve the enchantment and then remove the skin so that they could use it as armor for themselves. 

Cannibals with skin armor taken from foes or even their faces (armoring enchantment on a head) spread on a shield would be quite horrific. Again this was coming from an illustration I saw with a cloak made from human faces, I think it was. I assume if a PC is killed and skinned they could be raised but they'd look like the clip below!? Who is this, from Wyrm's Footprints' cover?

On 3/3/2023 at 7:18 AM, PhilHibbs said:

There is nothing that says that the enchantment goes away on death. The active binding holding the spirit goes, but the enchantment remains. Same for all other enchantments, they last until damage or decay breaks them.

I suppose any enchantment would need to be repaired and POW sacrificed to reactivate? 

[Joerg]

38 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Who is this, from Wyrm's Footprints' cover?

IIRC that's Ivex Devouring Dog.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Cannibals with skin armor taken from foes or even their faces (armoring enchantment on a head) spread on a shield would be quite horrific. Again this was coming from an illustration I saw with a cloak made from human faces, I think it was. I assume if a PC is killed and skinned they could be raised but they'd look like the clip below!? Who is this, from Wyrm's Footprints' cover?

I suppose any enchantment would need to be repaired and POW sacrificed to reactivate? 

In Tales 8 (p14), the Red Emperor's "particular chaos touch is that of demon summoning from the Four-horned Family, and he is also capable of instantly dismissing them as well, which is unique for that class of demon."

[Erol of Backford]

Spoiler

I'll assume it's like the demon in Snake Pipe Hollow or Skypenn's Mansion... fun, wanders off and kills anything it finds...

Possible stat lines for said beastie.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Erol of Backford