Babeester Gor new lore?

[Malin]

Now that I have had time to read up a bit on the new cult books, I came across some things that I don't remember having seen before in the descriptions of Babeester Gor. Mainly, initiates are now forbidden to marry and must leave any offspring to the temple to raise.

Is this the first time these rules have appeared? I've been playing since RQ2, and I can't remember having seen this before.

I know I can just do the whole YGMV, I just need to know if this came out of left field now, or if it has always been stated somewhere I can't remember.

[mfbrandi]

Basically, I think it has been all over the place. Back in (now non-canonical) Storm Tribe (2001, ISS 1310, p. 203), we had:

• Initiates must never love, make love, have sex, become pregnant, or even fake affection with anything but their goddess. Devotees avoid all physical contact with other living entities.

Turning to the Goddess herself, back in (also non-canonical) Wyrm’s Footnotes #9 (1980) when she was still Barbeester Gor, we had:

• Although young, she is no virgin, for her deeds would be too awful to do alone. Her husbands or lovers vary, and there are some children as well.

Now what goes for the goddess needn’t apply to the cultists, but there was certainly a phase when even having a child and giving it to the temple was out of the question. I guess it is all a matter of which misogynistic tropes are most pressing on the male authors when it comes time to type: is it “a mere woman couldn’t have done this without male help — and how else could she get it? <nude, nudge>” (i.e. she did it but she had help) or “powerful women must be unable to feel love — look at them, they are all monsters!” (i.e. she did it but she is an anomaly/not a real woman)? All very How to Suppress Women’s Writing. Ho hum!

So, you know, could be worse … I guess.

[The RQ3 Gods of Glorantha BG cult write-up is very short and doesn’t mention reproduction IIRC — I don’t know what supplementary RQ3 material might cover that. HQ1 referred back to the Hero Wars material quoted above.]

[Akhôrahil]

40 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Basically, I think it has been all over the place. Back in (now non-canonical) Storm Tribe (2001, ISS 1310, p. 203), we had:

• Initiates must never love, make love, have sex, become pregnant, or even fake affection with anything but their goddess. Devotees avoid all physical contact with other living entities.

I always liked how hardcore HW was with the cult descriptions - BG and especially Eurmal were borderline unplayable.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

I don’t know what supplementary RQ3 material might cover that.

I don't think there was any that did in RQ3. (TotRM #6 may have had something, but don't have available right at this moment.)

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

HQ1 referred back to the Hero Wars material quoted above.

I'd take the WF #9 as more accurate and useful than HW/HQ1.

[Malin]

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Now what goes for the goddess needn’t apply to the cultists, but there was certainly a phase when even having a child and giving it to the temple was out of the question. I guess it is all a matter of which misogynistic tropes are most pressing on the male authors when it comes time to type: is it “a mere woman couldn’t have done this without male help — and how else could she get it? <nude, nudge>” (i.e. she did it but she had help) or “powerful women must be unable to feel love — look at them, they are all monsters!” (i.e. she did it but she is an anomaly/not a real woman)? All very How to Suppress Women’s Writing. Ho hum!

My Babeester Gor player commented pretty much on that when they read the cult description... the changes were quite stark. Neither of us interacted with the 2000's Storm Tribe stuff; we stuck to our old notes and modules, so we never even saw those descriptions. I tried GMing the system, but that campaign crashed when one player moved, and the rules felt so awkward. The 1980' stuff was what we had on photocopies.

We have discussed a lot about what we will do, and so far, we seem to be sticking to the YGMV and having the Earth Goddesses Babeester Gor description be how they handle things in Esrolia. A cultural thing. So far, I am playing around with the Babeester Gor cult in Sun County (a cultural outlier) being less focused on forbidding marriage and children, and more focused on that nothing can come between a Babeester Gor and her duties to the Earth Goddesses. The local culture is strongly marriage-focused (influenced by Yelmalio) and it would make sense that a Babeester Gor might be forbidden to marry a man, as that would make her responsible for the children. No Ernalda priestess would ask a mother to choose between her children and serving her goddess, so that would be out. However, it feels logical that it might be okay to marry a woman, as then she would be able to be responsible for any children, and the Babeester Gor would be able to do her duty. Do whatever you want in peacetime, but when the shit hits the fan it's time to take your axe and get to work. I like adding complications of duty for my players, though we'll see whether they manage to go through with the engagement and actually tie the knot. Marriage notifications are fun!

 

 

[Ian Absentia]

7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I always liked how hardcore HW was with the cult descriptions - BG and especially Eurmal were borderline unplayable.

It felt like there was a real effort to make Babeester Gor into Humakt's female, but not feminine, counterpart, even if women are eligible to join the cult of Humakt.  And maybe that eligibility for the baseline "death cult" is what led to making BG such a woman-not-woman, spear-carrier stand-in.

The recent write-ups inspire me to expand the cast members of my Humakt/Zorak Zoran action/buddy film franchise, Dead and Deader.  Because it's really been crying for a feminine voice.

!i!

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

It felt like there was a real effort to make Babeester Gor into Humakt's female, but not feminine, counterpart, even if women are eligible to join the cult of Humakt.  And maybe that eligibility for the baseline "death cult" is what led to making BG such a woman-not-woman, spear-carrier stand-in.

The recent write-ups inspire me to expand the cast members of my Humakt/Zorak Zoran action/buddy film franchise, Dead and Deader.  Because it's really been crying for a feminine voice.

!i!

this is interesting, because for me I always think, "every Rune needs a Shargash"

[Beoferret]

My poor memory is telling me that the "Babs initiates can get it on (even with the boys), BUT can't get married and have to give up any children" rule/lore has been standard since the current iteration of RQ appeared. I don't have the book in front of me, but that's the take I've seen on these forums. I like it. It's playable, but lets the player know important things about their character: i.e., the importance of duty to their temple, the priestess they're protecting, etc. 

As an aside: is it Babeester Gor or Maran Gor that demands the sacrifice of male children born to initiates and/or priestesses? Seems more Maran Gor's speed, but maybe something an especially strict Babs temple (out in the boondocks) might insist on as well? (Either way, there's an adventure seed right there: priestess on the run, trying to bring her baby boy to a safe place, while pursued by the righteous along spirits of reprisal. Enter the adventurers....)

 

[Ian Absentia]

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

this is interesting, because for me I always think, "every Rune needs a Shargash"

You mean in a Flipside-to-Every-Coin sort of way?  I agree -- there's the cult that you want to belong to, then there's the cult that you actually have to belong to.

1 hour ago, Beoferret said:

My poor memory is telling me that the "Babs initiates can get it on (even with the boys), BUT can't get married and have to give up any children" rule/lore has been standard since the current iteration of RQ appeared. I don't have the book in front of me, but that's the take I've seen on these forums. I like it. It's playable, but lets the player know important things about their character: i.e., the importance of duty to their temple, the priestess they're protecting, etc. 

Like above, there are cult/Rune ideals, and then there's how people actually live their lives.  "Yeah, yeah, I know what I was supposed to do, but this is how it actually turned out.  What's it going to take to smooth this over?"  Not to be flip, but as in the real world, we aspire to the divine, and then make do with what we can manage.  Babeester Gor should be no exception.

!i!

[coffeemancer]

Am I insane or is there a story about Eurmal turning blood into wine which babeester Gor got drunk on and then they banged?

I have some feverdream about having read a story like that...

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, coffeemancer said:

Am I insane or is there a story about Eurmal turning blood into wine which babeester Gor got drunk on and then they banged?

I have some feverdream about having read a story like that...

Valley of the healers, blood beer. I always felt like this was similar to the Humakti Lead Cross heroquest.

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

I have some feverdream about having read a story like that …

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet#Roles

[coffeemancer]

8 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet#Roles

hah yes I know where the idea comes from.

 

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Valley of the healers, blood beer. I always felt like this was similar to the Humakti Lead Cross heroquest.

where can I read these?

[Joerg]

15 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

where can I read these?

@Eff did a great summary about the available sources.

[Squaredeal Sten]

3 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

Am I insane or is there a story about Eurmal turning blood into wine which babeester Gor got drunk on and then they banged?

I have some feverdream about having read a story like that...

Blood into beer, not wine.  To end BG's berserk massacre.