Grimoire

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Seriously??? You're talking about the most "political" knowledge temple in a city and country built on politics. Why would they let you in to do anything but peruse the most general and common information? 

Fine, they will sneak in via stealth in the tunnels...

8 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Anyone else thinks the full sorcery system should be published as The Blue Book of Magic? 🙂

Any color is good, will be great to see it.

15 hours ago, jajagappa said:

So we will assume its in the "restricted section"

Bribery works too. What faction is related to the Caprati?!

This is all good stuff.

[David Scott]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:41 AM, Akhôrahil said:

Anyone else thinks the full sorcery system should be published as The Blue Book of Magic? 🙂

The Blue book is the genealogies and synonyms of the gods (Prosopaedia 123, GtG 53)...

[Akhôrahil]

Blue Book of Zzabur

Written by Zzabur himself in True Script, this book is a first-hand record of creation, inscribed upon the flayed, yet still-living skins of his ancient foes. The Blue Book requires great labor and study even to read; the intellect must be attuned through rigorous logical self-discipline (Solace) and other strictures so that it is not annihilated by the knowledge contained within the book. This book is the core source text for all zzaburi wizardry. No complete copy exists in the world today.

 

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/history-of-malkioni-thought-brithini-and-first-age/

Edited October 25, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[David Scott]

32 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/history-of-malkioni-thought-brithini-and-first-age/

Sure, these are Jeff's notes from ten years ago, I'm just going by what's recently published.

The correct link is: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/history-of-malkioni-thought-brithini-and-first-age/

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What faction is related to the Caprati?!

The Caprati are newcomers and followers of the Invisible God, not LM. Their focus is likely on regaining wealth in this distant foreign land and struggling with the du Tumerines for control of the IG temple.

[Squaredeal Sten]

Some of the discussion above implies a search for the ultimate grimoire which would contain all possible sorcery spells.

But logic indicates that there is no such thing;

The Blue Book would contain the principles from which sorcery is derived.  But principles are not a magazine of spells ready to cast. They are a starting point.  

Since we know that sorcerors create new spells after long study, it seems likely that a near infinite number of spells are possible.  Those could only be contained in a near infinite size book, not one you could walk out of a library with.  

On another facet of the discussion: Wouldn't some of the books in a large Gloranthan library be clay tablets?  Which are bulkier than papyrus or vellum.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling / typing

[Erol of Backford]

12 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

still-living skins of his ancient foes

Seems like the book of monsters and or the necronomicon?

11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Caprati are newcomers and followers of the Invisible God, not LM.

But surely when they are looking for information they must be tied to one faction somehow... it would behoove them to be unless being neutral is more their style, allowing them to approach any faction equally?

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Since we know that sorcerers create new spells after long study, it seems likely that a near infinite number of spells are possible.

This is what I am thinking, and any spell could be slightly different depending on who taught, inscribed or cast it? I like being able to find bits of a grimoire and the PC studies it or takes it to their favorite scholar to try to piece together the missing sections. It could cause something to go very wrong, backfired spell if you will but could be enjoyable to roleplay?

Edited October 25, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

But surely when they are looking for information they must be tied to one faction somehow... it would behoove them to be unless being neutral is more their style, allowing them to approach any faction equally?

While I'd probably leave that to the individual GM/campaign to sort out rather than pre-disposing one way or another, here's one thought.

In my book, the treaty wife is from House Zirandarn, a staunch ally of Queen Hendira and the Red Earth Alliance. Hendira and the Red Earth faction bring the Lunars to Nochet and introduce the Irrippi Ontor scholars (the Brown Men) to the Temple of Knowledge, so in your period there will be increasing Lunar presence in the city and in the temple.

However, the Queens traditionally would rely on at least a couple of the schools. They need the support of the Charterists as they serve as the scribes to record all the Queen's activities, the tribute coming in, gifts going out, designation of new privileges or removal of old ones, documenting the Queen's justice, translating messages to/from other important figures, and of course recording the entire genealogy of the Queen. Regardless of other relationships, all the nobles patronize the Charterists to one degree or another. But the Charterists records are focused on Nochet and Esrolia, and they disavow the use of sorcery, so their restricted section is likely of less interest (or more if they've hidden away every scrap of sorcery they've ever found).

Then you have to look at what the other factions might bring. House Delainaeo patronized the Blue Philosophers - they collect lots of lore about the sea, Dormal's voyages, the Closing, and a lot about the God Learners. Since the Queens immediately before Hendira are from House Delainaeo, Hendira and her allies would not patronize them, too. But the Blue Philsophers are rivals of the Black Philosophers, and the latter know lots of secrets of Darkness, the trolls, the Underworld, etc. We know from the Prince of Sartar comic that Hendira had important troll bodyguards, and House Norinel traditionally has some relationship with the Shadow Plateau. So likely Hendira patronizes the Black Philosophers, and they might not be as hostile to the arrival of the Lunars (who also know some secrets of the Darkness). 

Now the Capratis have their zzaburi to keep track of their lineage, but they'll need scribal services, so will patronize the Charterists to some degree (maybe not well?). But being connected to the Red Earth faction through the treaty wife Elena Zirandarn Caprati, she'll like encourage relationships with both the Black Philosophers and the Irrippi Ontor scholars as they arrive.

[Erol of Backford]

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Now the Capratis have their zzaburi to keep track of their lineage, but they'll need scribal services, so will patronize the Charterists to some degree (maybe not well?). But being connected to the Red Earth faction through the treaty wife Elena Zirandarn Caprati, she'll like encourage relationships with both the Black Philosophers and the Irrippi Ontor scholars as they arrive.

Not liking the Caprati have Lunar ties, not at all. Will need to change that a bit that is unless only Elena is tied and her husband isn't important.

I am interested in the PC's somehow getting close to the Black Philosophers so they may find a shapechange to troll spell... keep going back to trollball and Mr. Erekanst the Humakti member of the Kobakuruum from the Wyrm's Hold scenario. Guessing there is a link to the Arkati via the Black Philosophers... if not will develop one.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not liking the Caprati have Lunar ties, not at all. Will need to change that a bit that is unless only Elena is tied and her husband isn't important.

No??? You're in a new city, invited in by the Queen who happens to need allies against the western barbarians (who the Capratis would also loathe as krjalki), why would the Capratis not accept such (particularly since they might be able to establish useful trade between the west and the Lunar Empire)? Their position is rather tenuous and very much at the Queen's discretion - a bad word here and there and it'll be the du Tumerines who are lording it over them (or even the Aeolians!).

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Guessing there is a link to the Arkati via the Black Philosophers... if not will develop one.

Quite likely yes.

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not liking the Caprati have Lunar ties, not at all. Will need to change that a bit that is unless only Elena is tied and her husband isn't important.

I am interested in the PC's somehow getting close to the Black Philosophers so they may find a shapechange to troll spell... keep going back to trollball and Mr. Erekanst the Humakti member of the Kobakuruum from the Wyrm's Hold scenario. Guessing there is a link to the Arkati via the Black Philosophers... if not will develop one.

Lunar ties start when Hendira is left without the Godking after the 1616 disaster. Previously she had little inclination to seek Fazzur's favors.

[Darius West]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:28 AM, Erol of Backford said:

...and also it seems the Pavis cult possessed a sorcery grimoire...

There may have been more than one Pavic Grimoire.  The Pavic cult of Iffinbix (associated with the Office of the City Sorcerer) also had an associated Grimoire.  Iffinbix was an Earth Cult which taught and used Sorcery.  They have squat square windowless temples with slanting slate roofs that can only be safely entered by someone who has consumed the root of an agipith plant. It is quite possible that the many Iffinbix temples were linked by teleportation circles that allowed them to be used as a communication network by the human communities of Rubble Survivors during the time the Rubble was closed, before the Dragonewts' Dream.

[mfbrandi]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not liking the Caprati have Lunar ties, not at all.

They are called “caprati” (goats) — are you telling us that lunar connections the worst you can imagine?

[Erol of Backford]

18 hours ago, Joerg said:

Lunar ties start when Hendira is left without the Godking after the 1616 disaster. Previously she had little inclination to seek Fazzur's favors.

Since we are from 1600 we'll not need worry about this for a long time! The PC's Caprati mother will be from the a different part of the family.

[jajagappa]

20 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Since we are from 1600 we'll not need worry about this for a long time!

The Lunars have a long presence dating back to the 1580's, so you will find them and they are supported because they bring wealthy trade goods. The Queen before Hendira was Valinalda from House Delainaeo, and she made Nochet very, very wealthy by encouraging trade with everyone. Lots of foreigners come to Nochet - Sartarite refugees, Nolos exiles, Lunars, Ralians, Teshnites/Melibites, Fonritians, even Kralori. 

While there is a downturn in Lunar fortune in 1605 with the Building Wall battle, they retain a presence - enough that an entire neighborhood is named "Moontown" for good reason.