Andins

[Goldennose]

Hi, 

I would like to hear ideas you have for Andins. I know opinions vary greatly, but I have our own version in Hero Wars of the East Isles books. 

Still, would be fun to hear all the opinions, and I hope we are free to use any ideas presented in this topic. Otherwise that would basickly only block my options for these.

So, Andins... What is their culture like? Or is there? What are Andin Islands like? Do they have family groups/tribes? Fun myths for their background? Are they creatures of the night, as trolls are? Anything. Big thanks for every idea!

Arandinni from Islands of the Lost

[metcalph]

Given that the Eastern Isles already has sea trolls and Ludoch, I'm inclined to make them variations of conventional Elder races rather than entirely different species.  Their main religion is the darkness deities ("A few renegade East Isles are also devoted to Darkness religions." CoR: Mythology p127).  So the main types of Andins would be:

Dwarves:  The Dwarves worship a shattered version of the decamony with many metals non-existant.  I don't think they have Gold, Silver, or Diamond Castes among them.  Their main gods are Lead and Iron.  The caste magics are quite different in scope from their orthodox mostali.  For example instead of Jolanthi, the Tin Dwarves make Gargoyles.  

Trolls:  The main troll types would be the Dark Trolls, Cave Trolls and the Trollkin.  They worship Kyger Litor under the name of Arlu.  Their main war god is Bandan who  is perhaps another name for Zorak Zoran.  

Dragonewts:  The Dragonewts are a mixture of barbarians and magisaurs.  They honor the Sheradpara instead of Dragon Magic (Martalak is sorcery, Festanur is Daka Fal and Ombardu is Oakfed but instead his sacrifical flame is their fiery breath).  The more magically powerful they are, the bigger, angrier and stupider they become.  The priests of Vith say they can enlighten these monsters but show little inclination in doing so in historical times.

Elves: Mainly dark elves with mushroom potions etc and perhaps a few moss monsters and goblins.  

Chaos monsters:  Vampires, Ghouls, Ogres, walktapuses etc.

Like their kindred elsewhere, the various types of Andins hate each other as much as they hate the humans.  Unlike their kindred elsewhere, the humans have kept them contained for so long, that they have been forced to come up with elaborate rules and rituals for interactions between themselves so to function in a hostile harmony.  Like for example, they have ritualized battles to resolves differences or tensions between them.  As a result, their material culture has become homogenized and also includes a lot of Vithelan and Vormaino influences.  For example, the rulers among them would wear makutas and lomphoks as a badge of their office.

 

 

[Goldennose]

Big thanks for your answer, Metcalph. What you wrote is in many ways very differend to what we have in our East Isles books. But as they say YGWV.

We have Trolls, Dwarves, Elves and Draconewts as they are, where they happen to be existing. But these are not our Andins. 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

Given that the Eastern Isles already has sea trolls and Ludoch, I'm inclined to make them variations of conventional Elder races rather than entirely different species. 

I'd actually take the opposite approach. Demons are a big part of eastern mythos in general which seems distinct from the trolls.

I'd probably draw upon the demons of Tibetan mythology for inspiration, but think of them as creatures of Hell, not of Night.

[metcalph]

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I'd actually take the opposite approach. Demons are a big part of eastern mythos in general which seems distinct from the trolls.

The demons are vaguely described and the trolls are by definition demons.

[Richard S.]

If they were described as demons only by an in-universe speaker, I'd probably be on board with them just being another troll queendom, but given that the Guide itself doesn't get more specific than "demons" I'm inclined to think they're something else from the underworld. Maybe they're distant relations of trollkind, but I'd use the statistics for "demons" given in the bestiary.

Edit:

"Demon race of the Vithelan antigods. The Andins are vicious and foul entities that enjoy manifesting themselves as evil, demonic, and rapacious spirits that enjoy preying on the living." (GtG, page 476, emphasis mine)

Maybe they're naturally spirit creatures with the ability to become physical?

Edited December 30, 2023 by Richard S.

[metcalph]

54 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

If they were described as demons only by an in-universe speaker, I'd probably be on board with them just being another troll queendom, but given that the Guide itself doesn't get more specific than "demons" I'm inclined to think they're something else from the underworld.

I have not described them as "another troll queendom" and would highly appreciate it if you confined your musings to you think they are like instead of patronizing dismissals of my thoughts.

 

[Joerg]

Making (certain tribe of) the Andins something like "non-Kyger Litor trolls" with a common feature like horns (and resulting head-butts) or similar, possibly with a patriarchal clan structure (like presumably the Shadzorings of Greater Darkness, Gray Age and early Dawn Age Alkoth), certainly makes sense for creating stats. I would add some distinct deviations from common uz appearance, like replacing the tusks with a more carnivorous set of dentition, or possibly some form of dentition loaned from primitive fish (shark, lamprey, ...).

Extra appendages like (non-functional?) extra limbs, bat-like wings or similar, and possibly a common chaotic feature for some of the tribes, would be an extra.

Other than the Huan-to that are statted out in the RQG Bestiary, one species of antigods that we have RQ3 stats (RQ3 Gloranthan Bestiary) for are the Gorgers of Kimos, originaly from drowned Duravan east of the Errinoru Jungle. Other Pamaltelan creaturesfrom Sandy's Pamaltela campaign blamed on trolls might be of antigod origin instead, too, like the flying hoons or the Nightstalkers.

[Richard S.]

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

I have not described them as "another troll queendom" and would highly appreciate it if you confined your musings to you think they are like instead of patronizing dismissals of my thoughts.

 

I'm sorry if I came off as patronizing, that wasn't my intent at all. Your idea of the Andins being a mix of several different elder races is interesting, and not what I was responding to. My own knee-jerk reaction was that they were trolls, so I was refuting my own idea to mark out what I thought they were not. It was a confusing way of saying it, and definitely not a very valuable musing compared to yours and jajagappa's.

If you want more of my thoughts on what they are, I like the idea of them being mostly a mix of various underworld spirits, maybe including some troll relations but mostly of weirder types. Many of them are only partially or temporarily physical, so they can wander the east isles in spirit form and then manifest to cause trouble. Some Andins are little furry imps who run around misplacing tools and tripping people, others take the form of great shadowy beasts with red masks who lurk in the wilderness and prey on travelers, and others might be nearly invisible phantoms who whisper in the ears of mystics to disturb their meditation. The east isles aren't my usual corner of the lozenge though, so I'm not entirely sure what would fit there thematically.

[Gallowglass]

I have always thought of Andins as creatures descended from Underworld demons, that have "gone native." So they are more or less mortal, and lack the spiritual qualities of true demons (as described in the RQ Bestiary). I imagine them as being made up of multiple "species," like the Arandinni who seem inspired by the various east Asian ogres. But there could be others resembling goblins, hags, or shapeshifters. There would also be close associations between Andins and actual spirits (including true demons), and the average East Islander probably wouldn't distinguish them at all. 

It seems like you and your fellow JC writers are taking a similar approach with the Andins, at least from what I've seen in your last release. 

[Goldennose]

12 hours ago, Gallowglass said:

It seems like you and your fellow JC writers are taking a similar approach with the Andins, at least from what I've seen in your last release. 

True. This is the way we have it. More about OUR versions of East Isles folks are in Vol 4, where there is a bestiary. Sample Andins and Eresteenes are there. There are also Edes, plus many more of course.

[Gallowglass]

7 hours ago, Goldennose said:

True. This is the way we have it. More about OUR versions of East Isles folks are in Vol 4, where there is a bestiary. Sample Andins and Eresteenes are there. There are also Edes, plus many more of course.

I forgot what Edes and Eresteenes were and I had to look them up (Revealed Mythologies if anyone else is interested). I wonder if another way to classify these various demonic creatures is by their lineage. It might be that Andins are actually descended from King Bandan, just as trolls are descended from Kyger Litor. That would make them more similar to the other Elder Races, who all seem very fixated on their ancestry. If someone asks a sage, "What is the difference between an Andin and an Eresteene?" The response might simply be that one traces descent back to Bandan, and the other back to the antigod Arlu. 

The Edes are interesting, because at first they sound like harmless little goblins. But then they are described as "toys" and "throw-offs of earthly delights." I honestly don't know what that means, but it suggests that they might have an artificial origin. They also don't have an patron antigod listed, unless I missed it somewhere. 

[jajagappa]

13 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

But then they are described as "toys" and "throw-offs of earthly delights." I honestly don't know what that means

I'd start from the Hieronymus Bosch painting Garden of Earthly Delights and find odd little cast-off figures. Three-headed birds, unicorn sea-horses, flying fish, etc.

[Akhôrahil]

Might ”Andin” be used much like ”Krjalki”, i.e. not really being a category at all apart from ”those bad beings we don’t like or accept”? Then there would be no end of what could fit under the term.

[Goldennose]

Andin races described in Vol 4 will be Arandinni, Drajku and Rakshasa. Gorger and Huan To are also Andin races in our version of Glorantha.

Eresteenes include such as Manannaggal, Lamia, Seifora and Hungry Ghosts.

What I was wondering actually was planned for our Vol 5. Something more about their culture, origin and such.

Vol 4 is almost ready, and I don't think we will do big changes to it... And there already was our Andins in Vol 3, so we need to stick to our version.

I don't mean to say, our version is right and yours are not. YGWV.

Edited January 1 by Goldennose

[soltakss]

I just assumed that Andins were trolls or demons.

[Goldennose]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:40 PM, soltakss said:

I just assumed that Andins were trolls or demons.

If Arandinni were in some ways similar to Trolls, then making their culture and habits be kinda similar, would also make sense. These are not Trolls in our Glorantha, but when thinking about their culture, Trolls could be some influence.

But as said abowe, they are creatures of Hell, not of Darkness. 

Edited January 7 by Goldennose