Kitori Warbands

[Aelex]

When traveling around Heortland, in particular near the Troll Woods, i guess chances are to encounter Kitori Warbands. Maybe they even raid a small village or stead where the PCs rest or ambush a caravan? However, since the tribe is part Human part Troll, how is the organisation on the clan level? Are they separated by species or do we find clans / settlements with humans and trolls / trollkin. And would a typical Kitori Warband - as a "Road Encounter" - be part Human part Troll / Trollkin or would they be "either or"?

Thanks in advance!

 

[metcalph]

Most of the information about the Kitori comes from:

Quote

The Kitori tribe in the Troll Woods of the Holy Countrypeculiar one, for it includes a troll part and a human part, each equal to the other, though they do not interbreed like foul tusk riders. Many, both troll and human, think the Kitori take the Argan Argar ideals to excess, but outside opinions will not change the tribe’s ways.

Trollpak p52

There's also the Become Other runespell (Red Book of Magic p16) which for 3 points allows someone to change from troll to human (or vice versa) up to half a day.  

I imagine they have separate clans with the human clans worshipping Argan Argar and Ernalda and the Troll Clans worshipping Argan Argar and Kyger Litor.  Judging by how the Kitori have treated their human neighbours over the centuries, their human  members identify as Kitori more strongly than they would as Orlanthi.  I think the human clans are paired with a shadow clan of trolls with the local Argan Argar cult providing common clan leadership.  

.As for how the Kitori are encountered in the field, they might have mixed contingents  with human pike and troll skirmishers.  They may have access to the Wasp Riders who live in their lands and whose relationship with the Kitori is unclear.  The Wasp Riders would worship Gorakiki-Wasp which would be associated with Argan Argar - so are they part of the Kitori, allies or what?

[jajagappa]

23 minutes ago, Aelex said:

However, since the tribe is part Human part Troll, how is the organisation on the clan level? Are they separated by species or do we find clans / settlements with humans and trolls / trollkin.

The tribe is about 1/2 human, 1/2 troll. Clans are generally organized within the species, but they do share settlements. (My current campaign largely consists of Kitori and is a mixed party, largely led by an Argan Argar merchant.) 

They will raid occasionally, as will other nearby tribes, but less so since their defeat 2 generations ago by Tarkalor of Sartar. They raise beetles (parts of which are sold to humans) and tend spiders (whose silk is also sold), and maintain a trade with the Shadow Plateau despite harassment by the Volsaxi tribes through whose lands they cross.

[jajagappa]

3 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The Wasp Riders would worship Gorakiki-Wasp which would be associated with Argan Argar - so are they part of the Kitori, allies or what?

The Wasp Riders are not part of the Kitori, and I think are generally considered neutral at best, and often foes. (I picture the wasps raiding and attacking Kitori beetle larva for food.)

[metcalph]

9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Wasp Riders are not part of the Kitori, and I think are generally considered neutral at best, and often foes. (I picture the wasps raiding and attacking Kitori beetle larva for food.)

I really don't see how the Wasp Riders could be foes to the Kitori considering their location.  The only people they are said to be hostile to are the (obscure)  Bee People of the Holy Country (KoS p86).  And why would they need to raid the Kitori when the latter could quite easily give them beetle larva via other means?

[jajagappa]

4 minutes ago, metcalph said:

I really don't see how the Wasp Riders could be foes to the Kitori considering their location.  The only people they are said to be hostile to are the (obscure)  Bee People of the Holy Country (KoS p86). 

Wasps are either mean/vicious or parasitizing. They are nobody's friends (as the Bestiary notes, they are large hunting predators).

However, I don't see any explicit notes as to their interactions with others in the Bestiary or the Guide so perhaps other works in time will give us different details.

[radmonger]

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

I imagine they have separate clans with the human clans worshipping Argan Argar and Ernalda and the Troll Clans worshipping Argan Argar and Kyger Litor. 

Would that imply the existence of an Argan Rex subcult that bestows the tribal leadership? Or is it less structured?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

Would that imply the existence of an Argan Rex subcult that bestows the tribal leadership? Or is it less structured?

There is no Argan Rex subcult. The tribe is led by a Shadowlord, but no details currently on how they are chosen.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, radmonger said:

Would that imply the existence of an Argan Rex subcult that bestows the tribal leadership? Or is it less structured?

Not even all Orlanthi have leadership confined to the "Rex" cult.
Sometimes an Ernalda priestess, or someone Solar, or even a Goldentongue, will become leader.

And the Kitori aren't entirely an "Orlanthi" culture.
 

[Ali the Helering]

 

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

There is no Argan Rex subcult. The tribe is led by a Shadowlord, but no details currently on how they are chosen.

Jeff posted in 2019

A few notes on the Torkani:

Argan Argar is the tribal patron god. He is worshiped as a consort of Ernalda, as is Orlanth. Humakt is the most important war god, although Storm Bull is also popular. All the Lightbringers are worshiped. 

Their Rex cult is unique - as the tribal leaders need to worship Argan Argar in conjunction with Orlanth Rex.

 

So I think the answer is "Your Rex cult for the Torkani May Vary"

[Squaredeal Sten]

In th 1625 ST time frame, it dies not make sense for the Kitori to raid your neighbors without provocation or to practise banditry.  They lost the last war very badly and are a shadow of their former strength.  If they antagonize their neighbors the neighbors may combine against them.  It is in their best interest to trade, follow the Argan Argar principle of equal exchange, and do favors which they may redeem in security.

 

Edited March 28 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Erol of Backford]

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

There's also the Become Other runespell (Red Book of Magic p16) which for 3 points allows someone to change from troll to human (or vice versa) up to half a day.

There was a sorcery spell, if you use them, human to troll which is good if you'd like to have your PC's play trollball...

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

The Wasp Riders would worship Gorakiki-Wasp which would be associated with Argan Argar - so are they part of the Kitori, allies or what?

Scouts for ambush easy enough. Somehow the trolls give the pigmy's night vision...

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

Bee People of the Holy Country (KoS p86).

Where are they located please?

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

They are nobody's friends (as the Bestiary notes, they are large hunting predators).

In the game they may be allied however and then it's anyone's guess how helpful they might be.

19 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

It is in their best interest to trade, follow the Argan Argar principle of equal exchange, and do favors which they may redeem in security.

And engage in friendly trollball matches. Jaja is there a trollball pitch in Nochet? I am sure the Kitori might send a warband to Nochet posing as a team and then raid on the way back after losing...

They may be antagonized into counter raiding by the Kurtali who are their enemies, still thinking some of then are Night Jumpers... 

[Erol of Backford]

28 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

If they antagonize their neighbors the neighbors may combine against them.

For sure.

[Aelex]

Oh well, so  no raiding. I kind of thought it would be a good element to use the Kitori in a role as kind of Conan-Style "Picts" as "savage wilderness threads". Ghosts in the forrest, cruel shamans, horrible darkness rites, brutal warriors with giant beetles and Trollkin swarming and stuff. But seems like they are more in a situation where they need to take care not to fall victim to a crusade and therefore are on good behaviour? Thanks for all the input!

[jajagappa]

30 minutes ago, Aelex said:

Oh well, so  no raiding. I kind of thought it would be a good element to use the Kitori in a role as kind of Conan-Style "Picts" as "savage wilderness threads".

For those raiders, use the Shadow Plateau trolls! There's 41,000 of them and they've got a great defensible position to swarm out of including giant beetles and trollkin, and they've got a troll hero (Obash Broosmasher) to lead them (or just send out brutal Zorak Zoran warbands). They might well go all the way to the Troll Woods (do some trading there) and then make their way back. The Volsaxi tribes won't know whether they are Kitori or not, but they may well react to incursions against the Kitori. (And, yes, you can find the cruel shamans there, horrible darkness rites, fungal caverns, and a desolate, black sand desert atop the plateau.

Now, if you do raid into Kitori lands, they will use ghosts, darkness elementals, demon shadows, giant web-spinning spiders, huge beetles, etc. to defend their territory. They're just not going to spend time provoking the nearby humans.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Jaja is there a trollball pitch in Nochet?

Kind of a side topic for this thread, but no "pitch" per se. However, the rough, rubble-strewn grounds above the Dark Warrens may well serve for impromptu matches at night when the humans have gone to sleep.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

by the Kurtali who are their enemies, still thinking some of then are Night Jumpers... 

Basically figure that the Night Jumpers effectively became a small mercenary band after Tarkalor's Wars, and are one of the bands that made up Broyan's army to drive out the Lunars.

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

 

Jeff posted in 2019

A few notes on the Torkani:

Argan Argar is the tribal patron god. He is worshiped as a consort of Ernalda, as is Orlanth. Humakt is the most important war god, although Storm Bull is also popular. All the Lightbringers are worshiped. 

Their Rex cult is unique - as the tribal leaders need to worship Argan Argar in conjunction with Orlanth Rex.

 

So I think the answer is "Your Rex cult for the Torkani May Vary"

Yeah, well I realised that was not right, as the Sartar Book will make clear.

[Ali the Helering]

28 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Yeah, well I realised that was not right, as the Sartar Book will make clear.

You mean Jeff can be Jeffed too.... weird man.  I need some more hazia....

[Bahntah]

53 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

You mean Jeff can be Jeffed too.... weird man.  I need some more hazia....

My takeaway from the history of HQ:G is that Jeff Jeff's Jeff all the time.

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Yeah, well I realised that was not right, as the Sartar Book will make clear.

Hmm.
Can you lay out a few rough outlines for us?

[AlexS]

8 hours ago, Aelex said:

Oh well, so  no raiding

I certainly wouldn’t rule out Kitori raiding! In our Glorantha there is actually a whole Kitori cultural tradition (‘Isalling Kitori’) dedicated to taking the ‘Path of the Wasp’ and joining with the Wasp Riders (who are not Kitori, but closely allied and linked through worship of Gorakiki-Wasp) to attack nearby Heortling settlements.

In our campaign this was traditionally a fringe vocation followed by a relatively small number of young Kitori, but many more have come to follow this path in recent years. In the past some might have taken the ‘Path of the Wasp’ as a permanent choice after being called by Zorak Zoran or Gorakiki upon initiation rather than Argan Argar, while some others saw it as a temporary (ephebos/koryos style) experience to be lived between clan initiation and cult initiation. However, the intensified persecution of the Kitori that followed the rise of King Broyan’s Volsaxing Confederacy has produced many more angry and bereaved Kitori youth, leading to a rapid growth in the Isalling tradition – and thus in the frequency of Kitori / Wasp Rider raids in Northern Heortland and Southern Sartar.

The Isalling Kitori are part of an overview of cultural traditions in Kethaela, Prax and Dragon Pass on which we’re currently working, which should reach the JC eventually. Here is our working summary of different Kitori cultural traditions:

As you can see, we see the Kitori as a fragmented people, whose cultural traditions have moved in different directions after their disastrous defeat at the hands of Tarkalor Trollkiller and Monrogh Lantern.

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Now, if you do raid into Kitori lands, they will use ghosts, darkness elementals, demon shadows, giant web-spinning spiders, huge beetles, etc. to defend their territory.

This is very much how we imagine the Dehor Kitori, who do not raid their neighbours but can be implacable enemies when attacked.

10 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

In th 1625 ST time frame, it dies not make sense for the Kitori to raid tour neighbors without provocation or to practise banditry.  They lost the last war very badly and are a shadow of their former strength. 

That’s true - except that in 1625 their neighbours are also in bad shape. Broyan is dead and his Volsaxing Confederacy has been reduced to a few squabbling warbands around Whitewall and a couple of other tribes that are in the process of being politically absorbed by Sartar (whose current rulers, unlike Prince Tarkalor, have no beef with the Kitori). The Yelmalions to the north lost key leaders in the Dragonrise and are generally under suspicion as collaborators after sending mercenary templars to fight with Fazzur in Heortland, the Hendriki to the south are preoccupied with the Kingdom of Jab, and the Esrolians to the west have traditionally friendly relations with the followers of Argan Argar. So now seems like a pretty good time to emerge from the Troll Woods and try to reunite the Shadowlands…

In fact (to link this to the discussion about King Broyan’s death in another thread), in our campaign it was a Dehor Kitori shaman-priestess who summoned the demon that did for Broyan, seizing an opportunity to remove someone who as the uniter of the Volsaxings represented the biggest obstacle tin the path of a possible Kitori resurgence. She may have cooperated with Tatius to do the hit, but that would only have been a temporary alliance of convenience; the Kitori didn’t trust the Lunars (even though they appreciated the break from Volsaxing persecution that came with the Empire’s invasion of Northern Heortland) and already had all the motivation they need to strike at a leader who had united their tribal enemies. 

So, I think you could have a lot of fun with Kitori antagonists, whether they are wild Isalling raiders accompanied by crazy wasp-riders or careful Dehor plotters scheming to restore the Shadowlands to their former glory.

Or, you could just have the party bump into a group of of the friendlier Loradaking Kitori (most of whom live in Esrolia but some of whom can be found in Heortland) while they are out and about escorting n Argan Argar caravan or on patrol as part of their Kimantoring military service – but be careful with any Darkness-hating adventurers who pick fights with anyone vaguely trollish, because then as @jajagappa says they might bring down the wrath of Obash Broos-Smasher upon the party!

[AlexS]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where are they located please?

Good question!

‘The Holy Country’ included the Sixth of Heortland, so the Bee People could be quite nearby in the forested uplands of Hendrikar, to the south of the Troll Woods.

However, I think it would be more MGF to locate the Bee People in an odd corner of Esrolia - for example, the Delainan Hills / Ianian Forest around Ezel, an area which is famed for its magical plants and thus could include Vale of Flowers type oversized blooms with magical nectar that enables the local bees to grow to giant sizes.

That way, Wasp Riders on their way to raid bee nests in the Ianian Forest could provide a fun unexpected encounter for adventurers who are travelling through the peaceful North Esrolian heartland.

Imagine this setup: the party has been ambling along a well-maintained Esrolian road for a day or so on its way from Nochet to the famous Knowledge Temple of Sylthi. They have met the odd Irillo Hundred patrol, and maybe some Old Earth Alliance soldiery heading towards the fighting around the Red Earth strongholds of the Malthin Valley, but otherwise nothing but toiling peasants, prosperous merchants and the occasional Earth Priestess being carried from one ceremony to another. They have probably packed away their armour, unstrung their bows, etc. and gone into ‘social interaction / diplomacy / politics mode’ rather than ‘wilderness travel / combat readiness mode’. Suddenly, there is an ominous buzzing all around them, shrill war cries ring out accompanied by a hail of slingstones from above, and they have to scramble to ready themselves in short order to deal with a proper ‘wilderness monster encounter’ type fight, while at the same time trying to control their mounts’ panic at being dive-bombed in broad daylight by ferocious giant insects…