The true origins of the Eternal Battle revealed.

[Darius West]

Behold!  And try not to be nauseated by the horror and chaos therein revealed...

 

[jajagappa]

I found it very amusing when I discovered years ago that they met on the Prairie of Prax.

[Pentallion]

They say chaos always comes from the north....

[M Helsdon]

4 hours ago, Pentallion said:

They say chaos always comes from the north....

Unless you are in Pamaltela or Slon...

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Unless you are in Pamaltela or Slon...

Chaos in Pamaltela came from Fonrit, which is the north.  

[M Helsdon]

Oh great sage, nay. Chaos in Pamaltela now derives from the Nargan Desert, where once lay the center of the mighty Armali Empire. Fonrit is but a relic (in part) of that time.

[Hmm, since the Windows update yesterday, quotes won't load. Must be due to the Chaos God Micros Oft.]

Edited September 26, 2016 by M Helsdon

[davecake]

Chaos in Pamaltela originally came from the terrible northern mountain Bandaku.  But Pamalt destroyed it. It's true there is some still left in the Nargan, but there is chaos left in many places now - even a little bit in the Aganali lands where Pamalt rules. 

There is certainly quite a lot of it in Fonrit, certainly. 

[metcalph]

13 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Oh great sage, nay. Chaos in Pamaltela now derives from the Nargan Desert, where once lay the center of the mighty Armali Empire. Fonrit is but a relic (in part) of that time.

Look at the God Learner Maps in the Guide.  

Map p691 - Vovisibor is attacking Pamaltela from some place near Ulrana, which is in the north.  He marches south along the Corruption Trial and is defeated at Jaranpur Fields.  

Vovisibor p693 - [,,,] Vovisibor took over the rule of all that is evil and sent them everywhere in the South".

Vovisibor p704 - This entity invaded Pamaltela in the Chaos War [Actually the Lesser Darkness - PHM], melting its way through the mountain wall [...]

Jaranpur Fields p692 - Site where Pamalt met Vovisibor and detsoryed him with the Firefall.

Firefall p691 "The Artmali were corrupted by Vovisibor [etc]"

Vovisibor hence came from the north.  As for his association with Fonrit, there is the Copper Canyon in Thinokos (Guide p559).  

Revealed Mythologies has more.

p52 "The stranger [vovisibor - PHM] called himself Surprise-From-The-North" 

 

 

[M Helsdon]

"Look at the God Learner Maps in the Guide."

The Nargan Desert is in the far south: The origin of massive Chaos incursions in modern Pamaltela...

[davecake]

No, the Nargan desert is ONE place that chaos comes from in modern Pamaltela. There is the Forest of Disease in Laskal, there is the Mother of Monsters (both the single biggest chaotic monster in Glorantha, and a living chaos monster factory). there are greater hydras in a number of places (most of which produce lesser hydras by the truck load), the gorgers in Kimos, vast underground nests of grue in Fonrit, and plenty more. Plus various chaos monsters all over the place Vadeli and Artmali ruins over half the continent. etc.

The Nargan is where much of the chaos that threatens the southern plains come from, but not considered a major source of chaos by anyone else. 

And mythically, chaos comes from the North, it just gets its big defeat in the south. 

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, davecake said:

No, the Nargan desert is ONE place that chaos comes from in modern Pamaltela.

That proves my point. 8-)

2 hours ago, davecake said:

The Nargan is where much of the chaos that threatens the southern plains come from, but not considered a major source of chaos by anyone else. 

The Guide: Hero Wars Begin: Out of the desolate Nargan Desert comes a flood of broos. The broos are organized as a gigantic tribe, and call themselves the Dinsender Army. They impregnate those they defeat, causing their army to continue to grow and expand. Over the next decade or two, the Dinsender Army overwhelms the Arbennans, slowly overtakes the slarges, and are halted only in the east against Zamokil.

[davecake]

I don't think your point is well proved. Yes, monsters emerge from the Nargan and are a major threat to the southern grasslands - but to much of the rest of the continent (especially parts of Laskal, most of Fonrit and Mirelos, coastal Elamle, all of Kimos) it just means that the southern plains are approaching the ambient chaos levels they've been living with for years.

[M Helsdon]

25 minutes ago, davecake said:

I don't think your point is well proved. Yes, monsters emerge from the Nargan and are a major threat to the southern grasslands - but to much of the rest of the continent (especially parts of Laskal, most of Fonrit and Mirelos, coastal Elamle, all of Kimos) it just means that the southern plains are approaching the ambient chaos levels they've been living with for years.

The Nargan isn't in the North... The statement that Chaos always comes from the north is refuted...

This is getting more than a little silly.

Edited September 28, 2016 by M Helsdon

[davecake]

9 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

The Nargan isn't in the North... The statement that Chaos always comes from the north is refuted...

This is getting more than a little silly.

I'm not saying it always comes from the North now, I'm saying it came from the North, and that is still understood to be the case. Even the chaos that now lives to the south is specifically understood to have come from the North originally (it's the remnants of Vovisibor, who is always associated with the North). But due to the foolishness of the Artmali, Sikkanos, Bolongo, etc (practically everyone except the wise Doraddi, obviously) chaos still lingers everywhere. Even on the plains, which is why we get charnjibbers every dry season. 

Its a mythic thing. The actual presence of chaos in the south isn't going to change that. Of course chaos doesn't come from the South. The true south is where Um the holy mountain is, where the gods live on a mountain among the cleansing fire that destroys all chaos. Just because there is some chaos a little bit further to the south from here changes nothing. The old men will laugh, and say did you not know that enemies can also walk around, and leave the place where they are born? 

[jajagappa]

On 9/28/2016 at 3:48 PM, M Helsdon said:

This is getting more than a little silly.

...For I live by a rule
That I learned as a boy back in South-Going School.
Never budge! That’s my rule. Never budge in the least!
Not an inch to the west! Not an inch to the east!
I’ll stay here, not budging! I can and I will
If it makes you and me and the whole world stand still!

[Darius West]

NOOOO!  Don't stop this emerging flame war !  It has mythic resonance!

[Yelm's Light]

Dr. Seuss knew...