Are 2H weapons the only way to go?

[PhilHibbs]

3 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Ouch. That's harsh. Does Yanioth know Strength Spirit Magic? It used to be the best way around stat minimums. 

Nope. She's not a fighter, though, she has a decent shield skill but Battle Axe is her highest at 55. I think Earth Elemental and Befuddle are her offensive options.

[Atgxtg]

AH, so they should probably up her STR enough so she can use it or something.

[Ian_W]

If you want to balance things, make the two hander user pass a Scan check to see the arrow coming in before they can use Dodge.

They will soon realise that the only thing better than a friend is a friend with a large shield.

[Atgxtg]

48 minutes ago, Ian_W said:

They will soon realise that the only thing better than a friend is a friend with a large shield.

And a large friend can be a large shield. 

[Ian_W]

54 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

And a large friend can be a large shield. 

 

If they are shooting at the Storm Bull with the large axe, they aren't shooting at you .

[Furry Fella]

There are some other utilitarian issues here. Mounted and you can't dodge. To use a spell often a focus is needed. Shields have rims which have much room for foci. While lots of room for 2 handed weapons is a myth they do need rather more room than 1 handed weapons. While not directly in RQG situational modifiers are implicit in the advantage / disadvantage elements that are. How does one defend with a two handed weapon and use / find a focus for a spell. With a shield and a 1 handed weapon a failure of one allows for defensive options while the "spare / alternate" is accessed. There are many more places that it is acceptable to carry a 1 handed weapon than a two handed weapon. Concealing a short sword is possible (if not easy) while concealing a great sword  is not. From a in game perspective rare or unusual weapons should be much harder to train, acquire etc.

[David Scott]

On 6/17/2018 at 4:50 PM, Valeren said:

Am I missing something?

Why would you get off your mount to use a 2H weapon? No mounted Praxian or mounted cavalry warrior would. 

[FinnDeviltry]

On 6/18/2018 at 11:00 PM, FinnDeviltry said:

Speaking of two-handed weapon use some more, have you guys noticed that on pdf page 62 one of the cultural weapons of the High Llama Riders is the "2H Dagger-Axe"? 

Does this mean that in RQG you actually can use two-handed weapons while riding? Or maybe not every type but at least the dagger-axe? Or maybe not everyone can but the High Llama Riders yes? How do you guys see this?

Nobody took me up on this, but I figured a way this could work. If you look uP RQG PDF Page 210: "A spear is often added to the shaft."

When you are a High Llama riding, you can attack stabbing 1-H Short Spear or even 2-H Short Spear with the Dagger-Axe. If you are mounted, it makes certain sense to be able to attack 1-H or 2-H. If you ever get dismounted, you can start swinging with the full wrecking 3d6 dmg.

[M Helsdon]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yes, a mount. You can't used 2H weapons while mounted.

RQG: Lance: This is a long cavalry lance about 3.5–4.25 meters long, used with both hands.

This seems to approximate the historical cavalry kontos, used with both hands very effectively by cavalry, especially cataphracts, long before the introduction of stirrups...

[Atgxtg]

 

1 minute ago, M Helsdon said:

RQG: Lance: This is a long cavalry lance about 3.5–4.25 meters long, used with both hands.

This seems to approximate the historical cavalry kontos, used with both hands very effectively by cavalry, especially cataphracts, long before the introduction of stirrups...

Now that's a change. 

[PhilHibbs]

5 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

RQG: Lance: This is a long cavalry lance about 3.5–4.25 meters long, used with both hands.

This seems to approximate the historical cavalry kontos, used with both hands very effectively by cavalry, especially cataphracts, long before the introduction of stirrups...

3.5m is a little on the long side, some lances might only be 3m. RQ3 never listed the length. They are listed in the weapons as 1H, though, and I'd take that over the descriptive text.

[M Helsdon]

23 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

3.5m is a little on the long side, some lances might only be 3m. RQ3 never listed the length. They are listed in the weapons as 1H, though, and I'd take that over the descriptive text.

Historically, the ancient kontos/lance could be quite long.

Non-canonical, but derived from historical usage. I also distinguish between a 2H kontos, and a 1H lance...

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by M Helsdon

[Furry Fella]

For the charge bit use isn't particularly different. The 2 hander kontos (translates as barge pole) tends to give more reach as it can be held further back as 2 hands don't make balance so difficult. Charging with a lance requires a high cantle or similar braceable saddle. Couching a lance under one arm does benefit dramatically from stirrups but to couch the form of the lance tends to change - the big buts on medieval lances are to improve the grip and the balance but this makes them unuseable as a spear on foot or horse back. The big change is two handed Kontos also cuts and stabs - often historically shown with both hands raised and stabbing or slicing downwards.

[Atgxtg]

M Helsdon,

What book are those pages from? It looks interesting. 

[Furry Fella]

8 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

3.5m is a little on the long side, some lances might only be 3m. RQ3 never listed the length. They are listed in the weapons as 1H, though, and I'd take that over the descriptive text.

There is something wrong with the spears table as the 1 handed long spear referred else where is missing. A 3m or 10 foot spear wielded in 1 hand is bronze age.

Two handed methods get lower SR as the two hands means more of the length is effective - the issue is balance and control.

The determining issue with experimental archaeologists or re-enactors over "lance" does appear to be can it be projected sufficiently far forward of the horses head to be effectively useable. This tends to require either certain lengths or techniques or both.

[M Helsdon]

13 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

What book are those pages from? It looks interesting. 

My ongoing research project... So far 321 pages. Probably totally uncommercial (three pages about spears, for example, unlikely to interest a wide audience). Basically, it takes aspects of warfare in the terrestrial Bronze and early Iron Age, adds magic and gods, to offer a depiction of warfare in central Genertela in the early Hero Wars. As I've raided every canonical source I can find, it breaches too many copyrights to issue without Chaosium's approval. It begins with materials, looks at manufacture, types of arms and armor, unit types and organization, regional histories, gods, magic, terrain, extensive army lists and text boxes relating to logistics... So if you want to find out about, say, the saddle you need to ride a hippogriff, there's information about it.

Some small segments may be appearing in the next  Wyrms Footnotes relating to another fairly esoteric topic, and one less so.

Edited June 21, 2018 by M Helsdon

[Atgxtg]

Thanks. It has the look of some real world stuff along those line. If it is a Glorathan book, I think you will be able to find a market for it, especially if you can fit in RQ, HQ and/or 13A game stats for the various weapons and variants. 

[M Helsdon]

17 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Thanks. It has the look of some real world stuff along those line. If it is a Glorathan book, I think you will be able to find a market for it, especially if you can fit in RQ, HQ and/or 13A game stats for the various weapons and variants. 

No stats. It's a 'history book', and stats might be a bit controversial.

I believe Jeff intended to use some of my illustrations as source material for the RQG artists. (I couldn't find suitable RW illustrations of swords, helmets, armor etc. so I drew illustrations for my book - the spears aren't terribly interesting - the swords, shields and armor are better). There are hardcopies of last year's version with Jeff and David; PDFs have been shared with some licensees who wanted military details. In my earlier list of topics, I forgot to mention there's a chapter on fortifications and siege warfare.

Edited June 21, 2018 by M Helsdon

[styopa]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Thanks. It has the look of some real world stuff along those line. If it is a Glorathan book, I think you will be able to find a market for it, especially if you can fit in RQ, HQ and/or 13A game stats for the various weapons and variants. 

I think his point was more that thoroughly pillaging multiple sources for material means the licensing of such a product for actual publishing would be nearly impossible.  "As I've raided every canonical source I can find, it breaches too many copyrights to issue without Chaosium's approval. "

[M Helsdon]

14 minutes ago, styopa said:

I think his point was more that thoroughly pillaging multiple sources for material means the licensing of such a product for actual publishing would be nearly impossible.  "As I've raided every canonical source I can find, it breaches too many copyrights to issue without Chaosium's approval. "

The material I've pillaged is all under Chaosium copyright. It probably amounts to less than a twentieth of the material, probably less, but is virtually impossible to extract. I have considered asking for a license, but as the material includes artwork, would probably be too expensive for something I'd be releasing for free in PDF format, unless Chaosium create a means of publishing Gloranthan fan material under their aegis.

[Ian_W]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

The material I've pillaged is all under Chaosium copyright. It probably amounts to less than a twentieth of the material, probably less, but is virtually impossible to extract. I have considered asking for a license, but as the material includes artwork, would probably be too expensive for something I'd be releasing for free in PDF format, unless Chaosium create a means of publishing Gloranthan fan material under their aegis.

Seriously, talk to them.

From what Ive seen, it's of a quality that it should be licencef and sold as a pdf on their site.

[styopa]

3 hours ago, Ian_W said:

Seriously, talk to them.

From what Ive seen, it's of a quality that it should be licencef and sold as a pdf on their site.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[Atgxtg]

I'd buy it, and we all know how picky I can be. 

[Furry Fella]

On 6/22/2018 at 7:07 AM, M Helsdon said:

My ongoing research project... So far 321 pages. Probably totally uncommercial (three pages about spears, for example, unlikely to interest a wide audience). Basically, it takes aspects of warfare in the terrestrial Bronze and early Iron Age, adds magic and gods, to offer a depiction of warfare in central Genertela in the early Hero Wars. As I've raided every canonical source I can find, it breaches too many copyrights to issue without Chaosium's approval. It begins with materials, looks at manufacture, types of arms and armor, unit types and organization, regional histories, gods, magic, terrain, extensive army lists and text boxes relating to logistics... So if you want to find out about, say, the saddle you need to ride a hippogriff, there's information about it.

Some small segments may be appearing in the next  Wyrms Footnotes relating to another fairly esoteric topic, and one less so.

No this looks really rather must have for many of us. Please do talk to the Chaosium guys on this. This sort of stuff adds both colour and structure to the world. Put me down as a buyer and a backer. The terrestrial late bronze age and early iron is a geek heaven for me so happy to act as proof reader, comments person, suggestions for things to read or raid and so very happy to have you provide the same to me. Keith Branigan's work on the metalergy of the Agean and middle east being the piece that still makes me glow.

AS I'm relatively new to this list how best to make contact?

[Jusmak]

By a short look and sample, I would by it.