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styopa

RQG Character Sheet Fillable PDF ver 1.2

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Nice and thank you.Thinking a few things over as I suspect that some lines are pretty much redundant - can't see anyone having both Sense Chaos and Sense Assassin for example? These are basically issues with the base Character Sheet. I do really appreciate what you have done.

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8 hours ago, Furry Fella said:

Nice and thank you.Thinking a few things over as I suspect that some lines are pretty much redundant - can't see anyone having both Sense Chaos and Sense Assassin for example? These are basically issues with the base Character Sheet. I do really appreciate what you have done.

Completely agree.

Going through it like this really just firmed my resolution to create a much more usable sheet.  Sorry to whomever laid it out, but far too much space on this sheet is wasted when character sheet space is really rather precious.  Simultaneously, opportunities for meaningful organization are missed.  For example, listing all the possible weapon skills on a sheet is (to me) a waste of space...it's extremely unlikely that any character is going to be familiar with more than a handful of weapons.  OTOH, if you are going to list all weapons, why not include a faint box around shared families to know at least generally where you have half-skill shared?

There are better ways to present the armor/rune affinities section that still retain the (I think) aesthetically pleasing elements of the runes and body-layout.  Your ap/hp are possibly going to be some of the most-commonly-referenced numbers - they shouldn't be literally the smallest text on the sheet.

The RQG rules talk specifically about the myriad of gender-classifications available under Heort's Law, yet the character sheet offers only m/f for the entire history.  Why not just have a "gender" text space which simultaneously takes up less room than unchecked boxes?

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Now I just need to get my Google spreadsheet to automatically fill in one of these... 🤔

Well....using PDF form editing software made me just more convinced that it's terrible.  Making a new character sheet, I'd do it in excel or more likely google sheets just because it's far more portable, accessible to everyone, and (importantly) modifiable to other people's needs.  When I first started doing the fields, I wanted to put them in sensible tab-order but OMG that would have taken 10x the time, so they aren't.

The trick in routing info from a generator to a sheet is always open lists, like weapon skills.  You're not filling in data on a fixed number of choices, the quantity of choices itself is a variable.  I haven't dug into your generator's formulas but in my RQ3 monster generator, I sort of compromised by concatenating these things as text into text boxes...which had to be a last step because of course at that point they're unmanipulateable any further.  The rest is just a glorified game of tetris, and prioritization by font/box size/utility.

With google sheets I'm just not familiar with what capabilities it has in terms of aesthetics...and that's not trivial.  Nobody wants a character sheet that's just a sterile field of numbers.  I like the artistic elements in the RQG pdf, but I think they can be less-obtrusive and more economically integrated...if I can figure out how to do it.

I'm probably going to start working on that this evening.  

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6 hours ago, styopa said:

The trick in routing info from a generator to a sheet is always open lists, like weapon skills.  You're not filling in data on a fixed number of choices, the quantity of choices itself is a variable...

With google sheets I'm just not familiar with what capabilities it has in terms of aesthetics...and that's not trivial.  Nobody wants a character sheet that's just a sterile field of numbers. 

Mine is a bit... boxy, I admit. The problem with making Google sheets pretty is you can't paste in vectors. You can paste in bitmaps, but I got the runes in by pasting them in to a LibreOffice workbook, uploading it, then fixing the bits that broke.

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Bah...if you want art, look at the book. :D

I never had any issue with the Sapienza sheets (vision notwithstanding, because I've never had trouble with that)...literally everything on one page, with an entire blank side for character notes and expanded item lists.

Edited by Yelm's Light

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Agreed Styopa, I had looking at the sheet as one of several things to do this weekend. Its just on end of Financial Year (I work for a Government Emergency Service) so work / life is a bit skewed at the moment

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8 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Bah...if you want art, look at the book. :D

I never had any issue with the Sapienza sheets (vision notwithstanding, because I've never had trouble with that)...literally everything on one page, with an entire blank side for character notes and expanded item lists.

Kind of where I'm at usually, but invariably there's SOME room for esthetics in the unused corners, etc.

I *really* insist that all the necessary info for a character be on the front side of one sheet; the blank back is so constantly useful.

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Might I start by suggesting resizing to use the A4 page? Looking at the current when printed and allowing for reasonable default margins there should be 1cm of more use able width and 2.5 to 3cm of use able height. As current lines are 4mm in height that is 5 (min) to 7 (max) extra lines.

As a suggestion Front page magic as 2 columns not 3 sections. Very Very rare for anyone to have / use all 3 magic systems - 2 is most likely.

The extra room should allow melee, missile and shields for the great bulk of characters on the front page so removable from the back.

Edited by Furry Fella

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4 hours ago, Furry Fella said:

Might I start by suggesting resizing to use the A4 page? Looking at the current when printed and allowing for reasonable default margins there should be 1cm of more use able width and 2.5 to 3cm of use able height. As current lines are 4mm in height that is 5 (min) to 7 (max) extra lines.

As a suggestion Front page magic as 2 columns not 3 sections. Very Very rare for anyone to have / use all 3 magic systems - 2 is most likely.

The extra room should allow melee, missile and shields for the great bulk of characters on the front page so removable from the back.

Now you're going to start a fight between Americans and Euros.  :)

Agreed that there should be both letter- and A4-versions.

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Question for the group....the RQG canonical sheets (as with most RQ sheets historically, iirc) use HP countdowns: sequences of numbers that you use to register your hp.

Most D&D sheets don't (obviously because you have a much larger variation on hp).  What do you personally prefer?

I'm working on layout for an alternate RQG sheet and have the MP and HP countdowns on the right and left margins, respectively.

Pros: 

  • It's easy to keep track of.
  • Because they're along the margins, players can actually use paperclip sliders instead of constantly erasing.  
  • The sliders also make it easier for me, as a GM, from the end of the table to quick see who's in trouble in case I need to (not that I ever(?) fudge rolls for them, more as a time for me to remind them to remind each other).

Cons

  • Not terribly attractive, sort of obtrusive.
  • On normal paper, it's too flimsy and they just work like the standard countdown lists.  We use light cardstock for character sheets and that works well but I'm not sure everyone has that resource.

 

Opinions?  Comments on the specific concept of countdowns?  They can be packed almost anywhere on the sheet, in any shape, if you like them.

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14 hours ago, styopa said:

Question for the group....the RQG canonical sheets (as with most RQ sheets historically, iirc) use HP countdowns: sequences of numbers that you use to register your hp.

Most D&D sheets don't (obviously because you have a much larger variation on hp).  What do you personally prefer?

I'm working on layout for an alternate RQG sheet and have the MP and HP countdowns on the right and left margins, respectively.

Pros: 

  • It's easy to keep track of.
  • Because they're along the margins, players can actually use paperclip sliders instead of constantly erasing.  
  • The sliders also make it easier for me, as a GM, from the end of the table to quick see who's in trouble in case I need to (not that I ever(?) fudge rolls for them, more as a time for me to remind them to remind each other).

Cons

  • Not terribly attractive, sort of obtrusive.
  • On normal paper, it's too flimsy and they just work like the standard countdown lists.  We use light cardstock for character sheets and that works well but I'm not sure everyone has that resource.

 

Opinions?  Comments on the specific concept of countdowns?  They can be packed almost anywhere on the sheet, in any shape, if you like them.

I have mostly experienced the HP-per-location numbers to matter more than total HP's.  I /think/ that I recall someone going down from total-HP loss, once, long ago... But I'm not actually sure...

But that rather eliminates the usefulness of sliders, I'd think... FWIW and YGMV and etc etc etc.

OTOH, you obviously DO like/use them, so you must find them usable.  Can you describe a bit more how you do that?

Also, my own at-the-table experience is that players often use clipboards and trays that keep me from seeing their sheets with a mere glance.  It's not any intent toward secrecy, but simply for their own convenience.  But again, just something that makes me interested in the differences at our different gaming tables...

Edited by g33k

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Oh we have total body hp downings a fair amount...sure, limbs are more an issue, but poison, falling both do nasty things to body hp.

I'm not wedded to sliders, I just thought it was an easy way to address hp/mp without constantly erasing and ultimately damaging the sheet.  I'm about 60% done with my first draft google sheets version, I'll be posting soon.

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

...  I'm about 60% done with my first draft google sheets version, I'll be posting soon.

Oh good I can steal your ideas to improve mine!

It just occurred to me thst, since my "presentable" sheet is all just references that pull in the figures from the worksheet, I can have multiple different presentation sheets and the user can just delete the ones that they don't use.

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OK here's the first draft worth looking at.  THIS IS NOT FINISHED.

A few comments:

- there will eventually be 2 versions; one 'functional' that does things like calculate damage mods, etc and fill that stuff in as much as possible.  The other will be blank for people to print and write on.

- RQ sheets were already space-short; adding the runic affinities made it impossible to get it all on one side of one page and still be both legible and useful for people with pencils.  So you'll see this is like the RQG standard sheet, with the skills on page 2 HOWEVER... I found my players really find it useful to have the "immediate need" skills referenced on the front page.  For the functional version, this will just take the values from page2+category mods.  For the blank, these will be cells people can put their current values in, I guess.

Other comments:

-- "Homeland Lore" makes sense for one's own area, sure, but "Homeland Lore, Other" is paradoxical.  Why not just "Area Lore"?

-- removed campaign name, subcult fields (it's just labeled another cult for more general utility)

-- on the default sheet, Honor is listed almost like a mod (like Agility) but AFAIK it's Honor (something specific) or just Honor as a passion-like ability.  So I figured it could just use a Passion line if the character has it.

-- too much water space on (00) skills.  Why fill EVERY player's sheet with Sense Assassin(00) and Spirit Dance (00)?

-- Eliminated the exhaustive list of all weapon skills.  

-- Base values presuppose a narrow character background (I don't think everyone on earth starts with "Manage Herd (05)'?  Every local washwoman has Battle Lore (10)?...not impossible, no, but the DEFAULT?)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14O6a3QHSOAlmOvQpqitkAyB-7RohraQe

You should be able to reach that link.  Enjoy.

Edited by styopa

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6 hours ago, styopa said:

-- "Homeland Lore" makes sense for one's own area, sure, but "Homeland Lore, Other" is paradoxical.  Why not just "Area Lore"?

I guess it is about what natives know about their area rather than what anthropologists and geologists from far away know about the area.

We have a few descriptions of Second Age Kethaela and Dragon Pass written by visiting Jrusteli or Slontans, but they read very differently from what a native would have to say about their places, politics, etc.

Homeland Lore is about the experience living there, not about reading about the place (or visiting shortly as a transient, like a tourist. Actually living in a place, working alongside natives, will be different from just fluttering from sight to sight in the company of your own country folk, or a mixed group of foreigners. 

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On 6/27/2018 at 2:51 AM, styopa said:

Question for the group....the RQG canonical sheets (as with most RQ sheets historically, iirc) use HP countdowns: sequences of numbers that you use to register your hp.

Most D&D sheets don't (obviously because you have a much larger variation on hp).  What do you personally prefer?

I'm working on layout for an alternate RQG sheet and have the MP and HP countdowns on the right and left margins, respectively.

Pros: 

  • It's easy to keep track of.
  • Because they're along the margins, players can actually use paperclip sliders instead of constantly erasing.  
  • The sliders also make it easier for me, as a GM, from the end of the table to quick see who's in trouble in case I need to (not that I ever(?) fudge rolls for them, more as a time for me to remind them to remind each other).

Cons

  • Not terribly attractive, sort of obtrusive.
  • On normal paper, it's too flimsy and they just work like the standard countdown lists.  We use light cardstock for character sheets and that works well but I'm not sure everyone has that resource.

 

Opinions?  Comments on the specific concept of countdowns?  They can be packed almost anywhere on the sheet, in any shape, if you like them.

For me, countdowns are a complete waste of space and I never use them.

I prefer a box, maybe a wide one, that I can write in the HPs and rub them out or cross them out as they go down and come back up. 

Similarly, countdowns in Hit Locations drive me mad as a waste of space.

Revolution has Life Points along the side of the sheet, again a waste of time, but at least it doesn't take up much space.

Edited by soltakss

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3 hours ago, soltakss said:

For me, countdowns are a complete waste of space and I never use them.

I prefer a box, maybe a wide one, that I can write in the HPs and rub them out or cross them out as they go down and come back up. 

Similarly, countdowns in Hot Locations drive me mad as a waste of space.

Revolution has Life Points along the side of the sheet, again a waste of time, but at least it doesn't take up much space.

Funny, that's what I ended up with here.  Seems the most economical use of space AND flexible just to have a small empty space where players can use hash marks or whatever.

Not sure why when I open it using the link above, it shows a line border on the right side of column T - does everyone see that?  I think it's a preview artifact, it doesn't show when I actually open in google sheets.

 

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On 6/28/2018 at 2:37 AM, styopa said:

OK here's the first draft worth looking at.  THIS IS NOT FINISHED.

I'm curious as to what the logic behinbd the two skill sections is - you have a collection of skills immediately under characteristics, then a full set of skills under the hit location charts. Is the first set supposed to be just a "most frequently used" skill list for quick reference? Or is this just one of those work-in-progress things?

Edited by PhilHibbs

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3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm curious as to what the logic behinbd the two skill sections is - you have a collection of skills immediately under characteristics, then a full set of skills under the hit location charts. Is the first set supposed to be just a "most frequently used" skill list for quick reference? Or is this just one of those work-in-progress things?

That's exactly it.  One my auto-filling version in excel, that's just meant to have everything tallied and visible in one glance.  It may be redundant here.  

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