Orlanth's High Holy Day

[Martin]

We know that on Orlanth's High Holy Day (Windsday, Movement Week, Storm Season) that the souls of all Orlanthi worshippers for hundreds of miles fly to Kero Fin Mountain to commune with Orlanth.

So my questions are:

What does this ceremony look like? what does the Chief priest wear, say in prayer, and sacrifice

Do enemy deities attempt to  prevent the flight?

What does the assemble on Kero Fin entail? Both in-world terms and game terms?

[Joerg]

When the winds are blowing, the worshipers' storm souls join the winds and blow there, leaving their bodies (and other souls) behind in trance at the site of their rites. That trance might continue as a dance or progression, but the participants are quite oblivious of the mundane world around them.

Normally, the worshipers breeze through any kind of token resistance on the way, although they may take detours to avoid obvious enemy terrain (e.g. Snake Pipe Hollow).

The WIndstop obviously interfered with that, and I wonder where worshipers from eastern Holay ended up. Those of Aggar and Skanthiland probably got drawn to the Top of the World.

In order to be able to interfere, you would have to be in the Middle Air, or Lower Sky, and few enemies of Storm enter there on Storm's High Holy Day when all the cyclical effects are stacked against them (although the Lunar phase is the Empty Half in the direction of Kero Fin) .

At Kero Fin, they pass on into the God Realm, and make landfall (similar to the cover of RQG) at Karulinoran, the Great Hall of Orlanth. If you have ever been to Oktoberfest, take one of the biggest tents there, only way larger, expand to the horizon. The music might feature a few more bagpipes, just like at German mediaeval markets (our version of Renaissance fairs). It's eating, drinking, and stupid boasting, banging on tables, lifting or throwing impossible stuff...

It is about being (with) Orlanth, being Orlanthi, having a good time. Which may include a raid or something similar.

[Julian Lord]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

but the participants are quite oblivious of the mundane world around them

I think this varies somewhat according to multiple factors, including the degree of magical Affinity each has with Orlanth & etc.

And remember, some participants are there to protect the ritual from dangers in the mundane world, and so instead of being oblivious, might be magically attuned to it.

---

But I'd say a more central question would be how much focus you'd think is appropriate to put on these things in your own game as both a GM and a Narrator, and of course how interested or otherwise your players might be in this aspect of things.

Also of course how important the HeroQuesting side of things will be in the game you want to run.

If your goal is to start by showing that these magical rituals are a standard part of life, then keep your descriptions short ; varied perhaps depending on some campaign elements -- more detailed descriptions perhaps to introduce some theme, initiate an important quest, give a sign that's something's not right, or suddenly make that year's rites a more significant HeroQuest, or etc, as things may develop in your stories and games.

5 hours ago, Martin said:

Do enemy deities attempt to  prevent the flight?

Always, but these are not perceived identically by all participants, but also depending on your Affinities, they're uncertain to remember the details after the ritual -- they will if it's narratively significant, though. In "normal" years these enemies are easily defeated.

Clan priests and other RuneMasters will see these enemies more clearly, in normal years as the ancestral enemies of the clan as defined in the clan creation.

More important and/or powerful priests & magicians etc will tend to see (and quite possibly have to fight) some enemies of that particular year.

Finally, attacks in the mundane world can sometimes disrupt that flight, and if those attacks successfully ruin the ritual, that's generally going to be the beginning of a terrible year for the clan.

And so on.

5 hours ago, Martin said:

What does the assemble on Kero Fin entail? Both in-world terms and game terms?

In a "normal" year, a giant storm in Dragon Pass.

In game terms, well, besides the opportunities of the festival gathering of the clans, and the Initiates, and the scenario hooks you can put into that aspect of things, you could use the magical ritual as a HeroQuest, as the sudden revelation of some new enemy, and so on, really take any element of the ritual narrative and use it as the means to introduce something shocking, dangerous, unexpected, perhaps even wonderful -- as the terms of your own game seem to want.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Julian Lord

[jeffjerwin]

When the Orlanth (and Vinga) initiates are in their trace is probably where initiates of other gods stand guard around the sacred hilltop (along with various spirits): Elmal would be pretty useful there. Yinkin less so, since most Yinkin initiates are also Orlanth initiates. Who else?

I can imagine this is a fraught moment if there are no other skilled warriors, though obviously the Earth cultists can raise up magical protections.

Humakt seems problematic, since he specifically cut his ties to Orlanth, so protecting Orlanth and his 'clan' would require payment: it isn't done out of love or loyalty. Kolatings might be useful, as might Helerings.

In the end this is a crucial role for Elmal, and when the cult is stripped away by the converts to Yelmalio, this might cause a significant vulnerability.

[Joerg]

The rites will be guarded by those warriors of the clan not actively participating. First and foremost these warriors will be worshipers of other deities, like Babeester Gor, Elmal, Heler, Humakt, Seven Mothers, Storm Bull, Yelmalio. If the numbers of these aren't sufficient, some of the worshipers of Orlanth will be selected for guard duty, too, and participate differently but no less honorably in the rites. Such guards from within the cult might experience any outside interference with the rites as heroquest experiences.

57 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

When the Orlanth (and Vinga) initiates are in their trace is probably where initiates of other gods stand guard around the sacred hilltop (along with various spirits): Elmal would be pretty useful there. Yinkin less so, since most Yinkin initiates are also Orlanth initiates. Who else?

What makes you think that Yinkini would also be Orlanth initiates? They are already associate cults.

57 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

I can imagine this is a fraught moment if there are no other skilled warriors, though obviously the Earth cultists can raise up magical protections.

And they do - it is part of the normal participation in the rites.

57 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

Humakt seems problematic, since he specifically cut his ties to Orlanth, so protecting Orlanth and his 'clan' would require payment: it isn't done out of love or loyalty. Kolatings might be useful, as might Helerings.

In the end this is a crucial role for Elmal, and when the cult is stripped away by the converts to Yelmalio, this might cause a significant vulnerability.

Yes, Elmal is the natural choice, and possibly the natural leader for this defense. But really every warrior in the clan, regardless of their cultic affiliation, will stand guard. This is not just about the cult of Orlanth, it is also about the magic of the clan wyter.

 

Magically, this isn't so much "Orlanth has a day off today, and so do his worshipers" - it is more like "today Orlanth permeates the world at his strongest, and this is the worst time to attempt to attack him."

That said, a good heroquester knows how to turn a moment of strength in his adversary into a narrative advantage for the myth he is forcing on the opposition. There are profitable ways to get a good mangling from Orlanth as part of the quest, then to come back with something learned from that encounter, and use it against Orlanth.

If the myth you are pushing on Orlanth has a crucial "There is always another way" moment for Orlanth to succeed, using this date may put the clan response quest into a situation where the mood is all set for "screw that other way, this is Orlanth!", yielding a huge magical advantage to the opposing quester.

 

One problem with this approach is that in most myths, Orlanth didn't really suffer a defeat. Only his battles against Chaos have a lousy track record, with only two clear wins (Sky Terror and the lesser Kajabori). Unless your opposition has no qualms to identify (now and forever) with Chaos, there aren't many (if any) other myths that don't need to be inverted to make Orlanth come out of the conflict as a loser. Drawing even and forced to make a concession, sure, there are such myths, but outright losing?

[jeffjerwin]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

One problem with this approach is that in most myths, Orlanth didn't really suffer a defeat. Only his battles against Chaos have a lousy track record, with only two clear wins (Sky Terror and the lesser Kajabori). Unless your opposition has no qualms to identify (now and forever) with Chaos, there aren't many (if any) other myths that don't need to be inverted to make Orlanth come out of the conflict as a loser. Drawing even and forced to make a concession, sure, there are such myths, but outright losing?

There are quite a few defeats of Orlanth in the mythology. Of course (as you note), 'defeat' is a relative term.

Yelm defeated Orlanth in the Dancing Contest.

Heler defeated Orlanth three times when was still with the Water Tribe.

Erladivus, son of Jagrekriand, defeated Orlanth, though Orlanth-Vinga later defeated him in turn.

The loss of Ragnaglar to chaos is a defeat.

Orlanth's inability to gain Humakt/Humath's forgiveness is a major defeat and unresolved wound in the Storm Tribe.

Orlanth became the Frozen Man on the Lightbringer's Quest (early? before he had companions), and was revived by Yinkin. This suggests a defeat by Darkness/Cold.

Jagrekriand defeated Orlanth and destroyed Mastakos on the Lightbringer's Quest, though of course he did not kill him.

And Vingkot hero-forming Orlanth defeated/and was defeated by Chaos Man. This is sometimes equated with Stormfall, the worst defeat of the Storm by Chaos.

Rastalgar, of course, embodies Orlanth to a certain degree [like Vingkot his ancestor], and his catastrophe, the Sword and Helm War, saw the severance of an important part of Ernalda from Orlanth, that is, Esrolia.

All of these are weaknesses (as well as processes of learning/strength) inherent in Orlanth. I am sure there are more. If one wants to cause permanent harm, of course, targeting Orlanth Rex [Orlanth-Vingkot-Rastaglar] seems to be the best means of doing it. Where Orlanth is unlike Yelm, who also saw many defeats and losses, is that Orlanth sees loss and failure as a lesson, and Yelm as an imperfection. This means that Orlanth is of all the Genertelan gods one of the best placed to recover even from an attack on the Hero Plane.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[jeffjerwin]

N.B.: I think Orlanth Rex, that is Vingkot, Rastaglar, etc., is particularly vulnerable for a number of reasons. First, this is the part of Orlanth that is most contested by rivals. Second, Orlanth often survives by discarding this role: becoming Orlanth the Outlaw, the Lightbringer, etc. Third, 'being Orlanth Rex' forces a mortal man make to decisions that resonate in the Hero Plane - decisions that may lack the mythic solutions that exist for the more flexible Orlanth Adventurous. Few men, even the sons and grandsons of Orlanth, are fully up to the task.

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

and I wonder where worshipers from eastern Holay ended up

The closest would have been Giant Top in Imther, so maybe just localized.  Or given that all the winds of the world blew towards Dragon Pass (and then disappeared), I'd be tempted to say either: 1) the souls attempted to fly and the attempt failed; 2) the souls got dragged by the winds in the direction of Kero Fin and crashed out at the Windstop; or 3) found themselves at Karulinoran in the Great Darkness with Orlanth gone and Bad Dogs haunting the ruins. 

[Pentallion]

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

Normally, the worshipers breeze through any kind of token resistance on the way,

I see what you did there.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Pentallion

[Charles]

My feeling is that the mundane and the mythic are always intertwined, and even more so on a High Holy Day.

So there’s a mundane attack? It’s mythic and the heroes, disciples, priests, initiates, etc. respond within their trance to resist and (usually) repel the attack.

On Orlanth’s High Holy Day, the entire Storm Tribe is, at some quite magical level, involved and will see a more vivid than usual enemy just as if they were part of a this world quest. Depending on the depth of their relationship with Orlanth, initiates etc. see the events as deeper and deeper levels of HeroQuest.

And the same goes for the opposition.

[Charles]

40 minutes ago, Charles said:

It’s mythic and the heroes, disciples, priests, initiates, etc. respond within their trance to resist and (usually) repel the attack.

...

And the same goes for the opposition.

Later, on a train...

Whether or not this is played out as having both the Orlanthi and the leadership of the opposition fight in the OtherWorld with the home guard and rank and file fighting in the mundane _or_ all fight in the mundane, with varying levels of heightened perception is up to the situation of the game and preferences.

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, Martin said:

What does the assemble on Kero Fin entail? Both in-world terms and game terms?

A lot of this is in Thunder Rebels.

p.120 "At any ceremony outsiders see the mundane events, but they do not see what truly occurs. They do not see what the worshippers do, because they do not know the secrets or have the proper perceptions. For example, when outsiders watch an Orlanth ceremony they see the men dancing throughout the entire rite. They may even see the men rise into the air at the climax and fly in a spiral above the temple. They cannot see that the worshippers have actually left their bodies and flown into the God World."

p.132+ describes the approach into the Storm Realm with Kero Fin at the center.  "All initiated Heortlings have been to the God World. They go there every seasonal high holy day, the Storm Season high holy day, and during Sacred Time. The souls of the initiates rise above their temple area and hurtle towards the nearest sacred mountain. There, hundreds or thousands of
other initiates and devotees are gathering, depending on the holy day (see pg. 119). They circle the mountain as a single wind, and in an instant find themselves blowing upon Orlanth’s winds in the God World. The initiates are still flying, but everything is bigger and more vital. At first, flyers cruise over the seemingly endless virgin Forest of the Winds. Trees stretch away on all sides as far as can be seen. The green of the forest is so deep that it looks black. Gods and their kin stalk this forest, where Yinkin is king and Velhara, Lady of the Wild, is his beloved prey. The initiates fly on, in the direction that they call In One Direction...."

p.138 describes the Storm Home Karulinoran which they enter after circling and honoring Kero Fin.  "When worshippers first enter Orlanth’s Hall, as always they see only as much as they can perceive. For most worshippers, they see Orlanth’s Hall as specific to the aspect that they worship: Adventurous, Allfather, or Thunderous. The celebrants they see are thus warriors, farmers, holy people, or the like. Such is the nature of Orlanth the Great God that when anyone in one of these familiar halls raises a horn of mead in a toast to the great god, they find themselves in the Great Hall upon completion."  @Joerg described it like a gigantic Oktoberfest and that sounds right.

For new initiates, this is the welcome into Karulinoran.  For others a time to feast, drink, and boast.  Depending on needs, the Storm Voices likely invoke one of the standard myths like a great raid, a rescue, the Discovery Band, etc.  How Karulinoran appears will depend on this as well.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by jajagappa

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, Martin said:

What does this ceremony look like? what does the Chief priest wear, say in prayer, and sacrifice

More in Thunder Rebels p.211 "Priests and devotees of Orlanth use ritual tools, weapons, and instruments in their ceremonies, which always involve clouds, wind, rain, and great noise. They give libations of beer and mead at the start of sacrifices. Sacrifices often include bales of burnt barley, oats, rye, or wheat. Like most Heortling deities, Orlanth favors animal sacrifices, usually cattle (especially red bulls) or sheep (especially blue rams). Depending on the aspect and holy day, worshippers may make other sacrifices, such as boars during Dark Season."

Note: you can see why the Red Cows of the Cinsina are particularly valuable/useful in trade.

 

[Julian Lord]

5 hours ago, Charles said:

My feeling is that the mundane and the mythic are always intertwined, and even more so on a High Holy Day.

So there’s a mundane attack? It’s mythic and the heroes, disciples, priests, initiates, etc. respond within their trance to resist and (usually) repel the attack.

I'd suggest that this would vary a very great deal depending on GM's whim, and the needs of his scenario. That is to say, the focus on the mundane or the mythic or some blend of the two will be determined by gaming needs, not abstract theorycraft.

Though in the most absolute terms, yes indeed, the two are always intertwined. The variable in game terms is how implicitly or explicitly that intertwining will be played.

[Martin]

As a follow up to these ideas ...what happens to those orlanthi in Dragon Pass during the windstop? they dont have any orlanth magic as he is fettered in the underworld...so when they gather for his HH Day....i guess nothing happens the magic and prayers fail and nobody flies to kero fin?

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Martin said:

As a follow up to these ideas ...what happens to those orlanthi in Dragon Pass during the windstop? they dont have any orlanth magic as he is fettered in the underworld...so when they gather for his HH Day....i guess nothing happens the magic and prayers fail and nobody flies to kero fin?

There are no winds to take off on, and there is no magic to enable this. The 1621 HHD of Orlanth is at best a memorial service inside the Windstop.

What happens outside of the Windstop will be interesting, too. All the storms are bleeding towards Whitewall, which has gained an entry to the Underworld, it appears, a weak point in reality. Possibly one that remains.

[Charles]

6 hours ago, Martin said:

As a follow up to these ideas ...what happens to those orlanthi in Dragon Pass during the windstop? they dont have any orlanth magic as he is fettered in the underworld...so when they gather for his HH Day....i guess nothing happens the magic and prayers fail and nobody flies to kero fin?

Reading Orlanth is Dead (page 46, but non-canonical now), the HHD is 11 weeks after the start of WindStop. As the ceremony builds until 'The moment comes to see the gods and goddesses... Nothing happens... "Orlanth is dead" '.

[jajagappa]

14 hours ago, Martin said:

As a follow up to these ideas ...what happens to those orlanthi in Dragon Pass during the windstop? they dont have any orlanth magic as he is fettered in the underworld...so when they gather for his HH Day....i guess nothing happens the magic and prayers fail and nobody flies to kero fin?

And there's another version in Eleven Lights p.102

Queen Ivartha organizes a gathering at Larnste’s Table on Orlanth’s High Holy Day. Everyone who can make it tries to do so, despite the cold weather and the Imperial patrols. Nothing happens. The rite fails. The sacrificial fires abruptly go out; they are stone cold, and cannot be relit. The meat is all burnt or like jelly, spoiled by cold. Runes are cast, and the sticks break when they hit the floor. Priests read the livers of the beasts, and they are diseased. People who normally hear the gods go deaf. A dead animal, gutted and spitted over the cold fire, bleats and staggers off the spit before men hack it to bits. Its blood flows and sizzles upon the ground and the smell of rotten flesh fills the sacred grounds. Men weep, women fall senseless, and old people slump dead to the ground. That night the dark gets darker, as if the stars are being pinched out. The cold grows hard and thick, so that all the earth freezes solid and more than solid, so heavy that a sheen of ice coats everything. Those who did not admit it before hear it again, and cannot deny it: “Orlanth is dead.”