The Lore of Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind

[Leingod]

1 hour ago, Sheliak said:

(And Six Stars, but that's a special case.) 

How so?

[Sheliak]

That's the name of the easter egg clan! (Sorry, should've put that in parentheses or something.) 

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 hours ago, alakoring said:

Lokarnos is on the Gods Wall, I don’t think he was ever considered mortal.

"This god began his mortal existence as a simple peasant in the imperial land of the Golden Age. Through perseverance and hard work he earned a superior and rewarding position in life." Basically, he invented the wheel.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/l/lokarnos/

 

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, Leingod said:

In the normal Gloranthan canon that's true, but in the context of this game specifically Reladivus is actually the son of Elmal and served as the city god of Nivorah (basically, Elmal and Reladivus were to Nivorah as Shargash and Alkor are to Alkoth).

Well, Shargash is another problem by themselves, with Shadzor and Alkor...

Quite generally, "son of" translates as "aspect of" or "name of". Deities (and capital H Heroes) have pluripresence - they exist in more than one place and shape, or at least portions contributing to the whole do. It is a bit of the "elephant in the dark" situation, where the experience or expression of the entity may vary.

I don't really think that a planetary or stellar body is restricted to a single entity behind it, with the possible exceptions of Zenith and the Red Moon. Sharing Lightfore will lead to some shared myths based on the observation of the regular movement of that planet. Activities down on the Surface World or hovering directly above the holiest place of its worshipers are separate from that.

Reladivus is the hoverer above the ziggurat, even after all the stationary Planetary Suns of Dara Happa had been disturbed by Umath and sent into motion - often a fatal motion. Unlike Alkor/Shargash, Reladivus/Kargzant the wanderer escaped descent into the Underworld very long.

Alkor/Shargash and Verithur(us/a)/Jern(ede/oti)(us/a/um) both descended into Hell but re-emerged inside the Golden Age.

(The Mernitan goddess is even weirder. Verithurus was the white light protector of Lesilla, the blue nurturer, after the Mernitan white deity had dipped into the underworld and re-appeared red from her deflowering and maternal experience.)

 

10 hours ago, Leingod said:

His promotion to full-fledged Son of Yelm and face of the Lightfore deity in Peloria almost certainly comes later as a result of the curse Manarlavus laid upon the Nivorans when they refused his idea of hiding beneath a dome (though on the other hand the Samnali/Wheels still worship Reladivus in some form even after leaving Nivorah, so maybe that also plays a part of it).

Trying to find a single cause is bound to leave out other factors.

To me, the curse of Manarlavus sounds similar to "Khordavu rearranges the world" after the Second Council forces had overcome the Horse Warlords and their Alkoth allies at Argentium Thri'ile. There is an emperor, and of course it has to be his decree which creates or changes a situation.

The size of Manarlarvus's dome has been debated, too. A dome covering Yuthuppa, Raibanth and Alkoth would have used about as much building material as the mass of the Red Moon. Did Manarlavus's quarries consume entire mountains? Not to mention that some of the building material was appropriated by the Darjiini for their hilltop fortresses.

 

10 hours ago, Leingod said:

Come to think of it, if we accept the above, and also that Elmal and Kargzant are indeed merely different masks of the Lightfore deity, then it means Manarlavus's curse on the Nivorans that they would forget their god's name was a great deal less successful than Plentonius claims it is (though what else is new when it comes to Plentonius and claims of an emperor's efficacy?), since it means they literally just slapped a new name and some new traits (suitable for their new lifestyle) on their god and went on with their business.

I don't really buy the concept of a single Lightfore deity or even planet before the Sun Swirl, and it takes the Bridling of Kargzant towards the end of the first century of History to put the planet Lightfore (or possibly the daystar sun) onto its regular Sunpath. 

 

10 hours ago, Leingod said:

A relationship to Redalda is unlikely, since she's actually born within the timeline of the game and plays a major role in its ending, though not in a way that establishes a preexisting connection to Relandar or other Nivoran deities.

There is Redalda, the daughter of Ernalda (no father given or strictly necessary), and then there is Redaylde, the daughter of Vingkot and the Winter Wife. 

 

 

[alakoring]

12 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

"This god began his mortal existence as a simple peasant in the imperial land of the Golden Age. Through perseverance and hard work he earned a superior and rewarding position in life."

 

You’re right! I think I was thinking about Lunar gods, like Etyries. (In GRoY he’s always a god, or so I interpret the story about him being an imperial official in Yelm’s palace.)

[Leingod]

I just found something interesting in the game's files: The Yeleni are marked as “Odayling.” I should also note that the Spirit Hills, just across from where they live across the Oslira, is marked as “Sylila” in those same files.

Now, obviously this might just refer to the fact that it's the land that will become Sylila and the home of the Odaylings, and there's actually no real continuity between the two groups. It's entirely possible, likely even, that the Yeleni just get killed off or absorbed into other groups and the Odaylings have little to no relation to them except inhabiting lands they once did.

On the other hand, it'd make for a good shake-up in the sequel for this pathetic, ragged group of weaklings you sometimes get the chance to bully mercilessly or throw a bone out of pity ends up becoming one of your more powerful and dangerous neighbors once the Great Darkness rolls around and they switch from following a Vulture to favoring a Bear.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Leingod

[Leingod]

And now since it's on my mind still, some other notes on the various groups encountered or mentioned in the game and where they might have ended up.

The Ergeshites are almost certainly the Sidarsi or at least the ancestors thereof; they live in the same place and both are pastoral goatherds worshiping Sidar. So that's an easy one. Even easier are the Votanki, who are mostly going to keep doing their own thing until Balazar comes around (though stuff like a Votanki competing in a marriage contest in Dragon Pass in the First Age suggests there's a bit more going on there than you'd expect).

The Yanadlings, formed from survivors of the doomed Northern Riders who gave up theism entirely, are marked “Tunoralings” in the game files, which has been noted before in this thread. And although they're mainly associated with the Raccoon God worshiped by their Vanchite descendants, and that's what was focused on back then, the wiki also tells us they paid tribute to the Hyalorings and that they worshiped “Heliacal the Sun and Negalla the Green Woman” at a temple-village called Lolon by the Dawn. Which sure sounds an awful lot like they resumed the worship of at least two of their old gods, if with altered names. They were still hunter-gatherers, though. Maybe Heliacal and Negalla were actually syncretic deities, one combining elements of Elmal and Dostal and the other Nyalda and Inilla?

It seems likely to me that the Wheels will eventually become the Gamatae, or at least one of the groups that make up its origins. The Gamatae were essentially chariot-driving counterparts to the Hyalorong, after all, and they were very widespread; we aren't privy to tales of the Samnali exodus, but they've clearly scattered fairly widely already, since the ones inhabiting the valley don't originate from the Northern Wheel Kingdom. Most likely the various groups of both Gamatae and Hyalorong scattered throughout Peloria originate from these migrations that eventually coalesced into larger tribes/kingdoms. Maybe the Wheel kingdom that forms in some playthroughs is the birth of one such group?

Meanwhile, some of the Southern and Eastern Riders will live on as one of the component groups of the Berenethtelli and the Ogorvaltes, respectively. Those left behind will probably become other Hyalorong groups. But what about the Western Riders? Well, I'm pretty ignorant about the western parts of Genertela, so I can't really venture a guess as to who, if anyone, they might be related to. Maybe they end up in Ralios? But it maybe makes more sense as a narrative for the Western Riders to be a group that doesn't survive to the Dawn as a coherent group or descendant group; Stelfor and Nameforgot were the chieftains who let Hyalor down when he needed them, and Stelfor seems to have refused to learn from Hyalor's advice and kept on being a violent asshole, so it'd be fitting for the Northern and Western Riders to be the ones who didn't make it.

[Joerg]

On 8/24/2021 at 8:52 PM, Leingod said:

But what about the Western Riders? Well, I'm pretty ignorant about the western parts of Genertela, so I can't really venture a guess as to who, if anyone, they might be related to. Maybe they end up in Ralios? But it maybe makes more sense as a narrative for the Western Riders to be a group that doesn't survive to the Dawn as a coherent group or descendant group; Stelfor and Nameforgot were the chieftains who let Hyalor down when he needed them, and Stelfor seems to have refused to learn from Hyalor's advice and kept on being a violent asshole, so it'd be fitting for the Northern and Western Riders to be the ones who didn't make it.

Getting from Peloria to Ralios after the onset of the Ice Age is pretty hard. You have to go south first, which means follow the route of Beren and Ulanin, and then continue onward into the salt desert left behind by slain Faralinthor, and then migrate north again.

Going west would send your riders into the pastoralist migrations of hill barbarians, like the Andam Horde, or the Bull Riders who dominate much of southern Fronela, with only the Jonating ancestors with their bear worship interrupt.

Dorastor and Kartolin Pass were not Chaos wastes yet, but were inhabited by the mysterious (and apparently mischievous) Feldichi people. Beyond the pass you have a mix of Hykimi beast folk, including the Kivitti elephant folk of Karia, and the creature that lent Zebrawood its name, and presumably humans to accompany those. And beyond that, you will find the children of Galanin, who was here already before the Rockwood Mountains were raised.

[alakoring]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:51 PM, Leingod said:

I just found something interesting in the game's files: The Yeleni are marked as “Odayling.” I should also note that the Spirit Hills, just across from where they live across the Oslira, is marked as “Sylila” in those same files.

Basically, I had drawn the map zones before some discussions with Greg, where he pointed out that the groupings you see at the Dawn are not necessarily those in the Storm Age. A lot happens in between! (And you may see more of the in-between in the next game.)

And yes, not everyone survives.