Fantasy economic system - starting money question

[dracopticon]

Hello!

My question(s) stem from the world construction I am dealing with these days. I am trying to complete a generating system for my own RPG, the EBROS system (and world), a fantasy setting emulating a kind of low fantasy "Europe" (around 1400s without the powder weapon technology) on another world. There is a continent spanning empire called Magna Rex on the main continent and several other independent states there as well as many others on two other continents.
The status system/table for PCs that I use for my game is the following, heavily influenced by "Central  casting: Heroes of Legend" and the BGB book (see pic)

My question is: Is there a starting money per status (and profession) table or suggestion somewhere?

Thanks for any help! //Erik.

Edited December 5, 2018 by dracopticon

[Atgxtg]

Well the BGB doesn't use money per say. Character have a sort of wealth level that influences what they can afford to buy. 

 

RQ3 had an economic system that used coins though, and it seems close to what you got, although it has a few more tiers.

 

Daily "Income"

1d: Menials, prisoners. slaves, beggars, drafted soldiers. 

4d: Minor Crafter, Landed Peasants, NCOs, Peddlars, minor priests, ship captains.

16d Knights, Minor Nobility, merchants

64d     Counts, Earls

250d/  Dukes, High Priests, Magic

100d   Princes, Archpriests

4000d King

16,000d Emperor

 

The values are multiplied by 7 for a week, 30 for a month, and 360 for a year. So you could work from this if you want.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Atgxtg

[dracopticon]

That's was smack dab in the middle what I wanted Atgxtg! Many thanks. It's at least easier to convert from that list you gave me, than anything else I've come across in my searches.

Is that "d" as in "denarii", the same denominator they use in Pendragon, and the like? 


//Erik.

[Atgxtg]

2 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

That's was smack dab in the middle what I wanted Atgxtg! Many thanks. It's at least easier to convert from that list you gave me, than anything else I've come across in my searches.

Is that "d" as in "denarii", the same denominator they use in Pendragon, and the like? 


//Erik.

Actually it was silver pennies in RQ3. The d was my fault. I've just started up a Pendragon campaign and abbreviated with d by reflex. Although denarius does mean penny.

[dracopticon]

Thank you!

And now, I "just" have to figger out how to adjust this table for the denominator in my game: lead coins. The other, more precious metals are all very seldom seen in this setting of mine. It is almost always only the high nobles and royalty that have access to the better metals, except lead. Metal weapons among more successful middle class member *can* be of copper or even bronze, but is exceedingly rare even then.

Edited December 6, 2018 by dracopticon

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, dracopticon said:

Thank you!

And now, I "just" have to figger out how to adjust this table for the denominator in my game: lead coins. The other, more precious metals are all very seldom seen in this setting of mine. It is almost always only the high nobles and royalty that have access to the better metals, except lead. Metal weapons among more successful middle class member *can* be of copper or even bronze, but is exceedingly rare even then.

Well, what you need to figure out is how many lead coins does a take to feed and hose a person for a day. That should be about the 1d amount. Then you can multiply the other grades by some number (RQ3 used 4) to get the next grade.

[dracopticon]

Lead is also poison, so there is of course a "shortage of health". Bad puns aside, I am thinking of other possible materials for coin. Maybe ceramics...

Edited December 6, 2018 by dracopticon

[Atgxtg]

If you are running a fantasy/medeival Erupoe you might not need many coins at all. Historically it was almost all barter. 

[g33k]

My understanding is that for "accurate medieval-esque" data, Harn is hard to beat... Or even to match.  I haven't done the research needed to verify that, but I believe it to be true...

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

My understanding is that for "accurate medieval-esque" data, Harn is hard to beat... Or even to match.  I haven't done the research needed to verify that, but I believe it to be true...

I agree. Harn is probably the best as far as economics goes. Nothing I've seen has been as detailed or as good. The basics aren't that complicated or that different from RQ3 or Pendragon either. The basic wage is 1d per day, but varies based on the job. Montly pay ends up being less than 1d/day due to Sundays and holidays.  I can dig out my books, if it would help. One of the books, Harnplayer, has it down to 2 pages-really a page and a quarter. With one page for prices and the quarter for daily and monthly wages.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Atgxtg

[seneschal]

Money is often based on metals but need not be.  It could be pieces of polished shell, beads of volcanic glass, small plates of jade or other semi-precious stone, thick dried leaves of a certain plant, discs of bone or horn.  Your medium of exchange just needs to be fairly rare, possibly pretty, and considered valuable.  And, of course, portable.  In ancient Sumeria, they issued letters of credit in the form of clay tablets.  So even mud can be money, depending on the culture.

[dracopticon]

Yes, I should use more barter and I think it's more the model in the rural areas, especially since I am running a low fantasy campaign. But I should be mentioning, it isn't low-fantasy right now. It's very high fantasy at them moment. Then a great catastrophe happens and everything gets much more low fantasy - but with chaos effects -  minus the magics since the Gods have barred all knowledge like that after the catastrophe. The lives of the characters are also many hundreds of years after this catastrophe. Am I making any sense here?

Edited December 6, 2018 by dracopticon

[Atgxtg]

Low/High fantasy doesn't matter so much as how much money and what type you have, and why it changes. If you are using a D&D type model with thousands and thousands of gold pieces, then where does it all go?  You might be going from an economy where 1 gold coin won't get you a room at an inn to one where 1 gold coin can provide for you and your family for a year. 

If you are unsure as to what to use for money, you could invent some new metal that cam about during the catastrophe,or has been recently discovered. 

 

[drablak]

@dracopticon (and others) if you want a detailed price list for Hârn let me know, I made one years ago.

[dracopticon]

8 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Low/High fantasy doesn't matter so much as how much money and what type you have, and why it changes. If you are using a D&D type model with thousands and thousands of gold pieces, then where does it all go?  You might be going from an economy where 1 gold coin won't get you a room at an inn to one where 1 gold coin can provide for you and your family for a year. 

If you are unsure as to what to use for money, you could invent some new metal that cam about during the catastrophe,or has been recently discovered. 

 

Good ideas! Thank you!

[dracopticon]

8 hours ago, drablak said:

@dracopticon (and others) if you want a detailed price list for Hârn let me know, I made one years ago.

I think I actually have that one, at least the one they made for the game. I own several versions of Harnmaster, but I can imagine yours are better, fan made stuff often are!

[Questbird]

On 12/6/2018 at 1:56 PM, g33k said:

My understanding is that for "accurate medieval-esque" data, Harn is hard to beat... Or even to match.  I haven't done the research needed to verify that, but I believe it to be true...

 

I would agree with that. There was a comprehensive price list in the old Encyclopedia Harnica vol 5, which I have but can't find online; also a supplement for running a medieval Manor (review here: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_5171.phtml) or household (http://columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4918-PDF)

[Questbird]

On 12/7/2018 at 1:20 AM, Atgxtg said:

Low/High fantasy doesn't matter so much as how much money and what type you have, and why it changes. If you are using a D&D type model with thousands and thousands of gold pieces, then where does it all go?  You might be going from an economy where 1 gold coin won't get you a room at an inn to one where 1 gold coin can provide for you and your family for a year. 

If you are unsure as to what to use for money, you could invent some new metal that cam about during the catastrophe,or has been recently discovered. 

 

 

In the old Dragonlance D&D modules there were thousands of gold pieces lying around in various old treasure hoards -- but post-Cataclysm people only traded in steel.

[Atgxtg]

8 minutes ago, Questbird said:

I would agree with that. There was a comprehensive price list in the old Encyclopedia Harnica vol 5, which I have but can't find online; also a supplement for running a medieval Manor (review here: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_5171.phtml) or household (http://columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4918-PDF)

Yeah, Harn is like Pendragon, but without the Arthurian backdrop, and with more detail, and more RQ like rules. 

I only wish they would do a version set in Medieval Europe instead of Harn. 

[Questbird]

10 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, Harn is like Pendragon, but without the Arthurian backdrop, and with more detail, and more RQ like rules. 

I only wish they would do a version set in Medieval Europe instead of Harn. 

 

 

You might be interested in Maelstrom Domesday (review at: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/16/16059.phtml) which is wound back five centuries from the original sixteenth century English setting. Still Britain rather than Europe but interesting. Certainly has historical prices etc. though probably not to the level of detail of Harn.

Cthulhu Dark Ages is the other one I was thinking of for 'dark medieval'.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Questbird

[Atgxtg]

46 minutes ago, Questbird said:

You might be interested in Maelstrom Domesday (review at: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/16/16059.phtml) which is wound back five centuries from the original sixteenth century English setting. Still Britain rather than Europe but interesting. Certainly has historical prices etc. though probably not to the level of detail of Harn.

Cthulhu Dark Ages is the other one I was thinking of for 'dark medieval'.

I've ran across it, and by an unlikely path, paper minis. 

 

HArd is probably the best as far as a historically accurate economy. Pednragon's not bad, it holds up well enough for knights, but I suspect it doesn't hold up quite as well as Harn.

[Darius West]

On 12/6/2018 at 2:56 AM, g33k said:

My understanding is that for "accurate medieval-esque" data, Harn is hard to beat... Or even to match.  I haven't done the research needed to verify that, but I believe it to be true...

That is very true.  The thing Harn does best of all is the detail it puts into regional agricultural yields on manor houses and villages.  You get an average yield of bushels per acre, from which you can decide if you are putting in crops or not.  The rule is, if your ration is <1, graze animals on it instead, their poop may help improve the soil eventually.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Darius West

[dracopticon]

Thanks all for the tips on what to base Starting Money on! I am sorry I didn't reply earlier. It's been a little hectic with both X-mas preparations and building my own RPG including three tests of the player character generation. This is still going on.

//Erik

[Algesan]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:52 PM, Atgxtg said:

Well, what you need to figure out is how many lead coins does a take to feed and hose a person for a day. That should be about the 1d amount. Then you can multiply the other grades by some number (RQ3 used 4) to get the next grade.

Yes, nothing like making sure you are fed and cleaned every day.  Sorry, couldn't resist 

Actually, it should feed more than one a day in that kind of economy or there should be some kind of "found" available to support daily laborers with wife and a kid or three.  Barely support, yes, making any interruption of work into an almost immediate debt problem.  Of course, remember if anyone gets ahead in this kind of culture, immediately their family and neighbors will pressure them for a "loan" since it would be "sinful" to hold on to such wealth.  And this is actually more detail than 99.9% of the campaigns out there need. 😕

 

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Algesan said:

Yes, nothing like making sure you are fed and cleaned every day.  Sorry, couldn't resist 

Actually, it should feed more than one a day in that kind of economy or there should be some kind of "found" available to support daily laborers with wife and a kid or three.  Barely support, yes, making any interruption of work into an almost immediate debt problem.

Yeah probably closer to "provide for a family". 

10 hours ago, Algesan said:

 

  Of course, remember if anyone gets ahead in this kind of culture, immediately their family and neighbors will pressure them for a "loan" since it would be "sinful" to hold on to such wealth

KInda. In most cases it's not really payment in cash money, but instead the value of goods and food. So someone who gets ahead probably has an extra chicken or two. 

10 hours ago, Algesan said:

And this is actually more detail than 99.9% of the campaigns out there need. 

True, but that's probably more due to the limited focus of most RPG campaigns. Most GMs tend to run games of murder hobos wandering from place to place, killing monsters, and spending treasure looted from their enemies to upgrade their equipment. 

 

But, if a GM is running a setting where the PCs have to interact with society in any way, then the ramifications of wealth become important, since the PCs sending money can have a great impact on a local merchant or even a local economy.