Dara Happan Hospitality

[Martin]

We know that Orlanthi have a hospitality greeting ceremony.

Do Dara Happans [heartland lunars] (and/or others in the empire) have such a formal greeting procedure? 

[Joerg]

Dara Happan society - especially the upper echelon - is all about formality. Theirs is a six-tiered society which probably has different pronouns  or pre- or suffixes based on the relative and absolute social standing. Think what is sort of common knowledge of Japanese, and build up from there. So we can either invent some such suffixes or prefixes, or otherwise think up flowery adjectives in the language spoken at the game table to accompany the address, with a side serving in superlatives.

From above to below, there are likely different grades of respect or affectation towards the lesser person, too.

There is no real need to announce one's social status, however - the imperial Dara Happan dress code takes care of that. Instead, one's alignment with one's house (association, whatever) and that house's sponsor would be given. (Again, that might be seen from ornaments worn, but those are less common than the dress code, so it is worth telling that.)

Of most immediate interest would be the function of the person addressing the arrivals, and probably the offer to find a place in the sun or near a fire while waiting for the low-ranking person to bring someone of sufficient eminence to perform the official greeting.

 

Altogether, it's a bit like "Most respectable <rank description>, you are approaching <territory of house>, please await here in the reception zone while the lowly me, <self-description>, is bringing a person of sufficient rank to address your concerns."

[Sir_Godspeed]

As Joerg mentioned above, given the highly stratified structure of DH society, the answer is probably less straightforward than with Orlanthi.

I would suppose, however, that it might be common to offer visitors, a) the ability to wash themselves in some manner, with the possible addendum that it is expected for them to accept this wash (this seems in line with Dh aristocratic obsessions with cleanliness, if not Lodrili ones) and possibly b) some ritually significant drink, either wine or whatever is socially appropriate/feasible.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

As Joerg mentioned above, given the highly stratified structure of DH society, the answer is probably less straightforward than with Orlanthi.

I would suppose, however, that it might be common to offer visitors, a) the ability to wash themselves in some manner, with the possible addendum that it is expected for them to accept this wash (this seems in line with Dh aristocratic obsessions with cleanliness, if not Lodrili ones) and possibly b) some ritually significant drink, either wine or whatever is socially appropriate/feasible.

Granting hospitality to an enemy can have serious repercussions in any Gloranthan society, so I would be very hesitant to offer a drink or access to anything more than a waiting area.

Offering some tools for cleansing on the other hand sounds like a good idea. From the look of Dara Happan beards, I get the idea that the Dara Happans who can afford it/have the status to need to afford it don't clean themselves with water, but with oil. The very virtuous ones might also make use of an offered flame to singe off any offensive stuff still sticking to them.

 

On the lowest levels, mudders and weeders (basically subsistence hunter-gatherers in the marshes) might use river mud for cleansing, leaving themselves with a smear of mud in the faces. Not dissimilar from what I have seen in documentaries on Myanmar.

[Sir_Godspeed]

I was thinking more of hands, feet and face over beards, as the extremities of travel, touch and observation, but it's largely speculative and just suggestions for players anyway. A wealthy family may have a slave wash their guest's feet before they are allowed any further then the outer courtyard. In a poor family, the female head of the family, or a daughter, might offer to do this for an honored higher-ranking guest (although if the social rank is too different, it's likely they wouldn't be entering a lower-class domicile to begin with), and a low class person visiting another low class person's house might just take a ladle from a pot and splash a bit on each foot for propriety's sake. Removal of footwear might also simply be enough, if such a thing is used.

I admit I assumed non-hostility, as the point of giving enemies hospitality is a bit moot. Hospitality to enemies would be a parley or some other extraordinary occasion (like receiving an envoy), imho outside the scope of a discussion on ordinary hospitality practices. For more low-scale conflicts (feuding families, or families just quarreling), the refusal to offer ordinary hospitality rites might be all they need to do to initiate or make their quarrel public. Scandalous, I'm sure - although exactly WHO turns out to be the humiliated part is probably up for debate (being a bad host isn't good PR either, as much as it probably stings to get thrown out of a rival's house/yard).

Fair dues on the presentation of drink though. It may or may not be considered essential: some cultures see the presentation of victuals or even food as preceding almost anything else (not necessarily as a show of friendship, but also as a show of superiority), while for others it is something only done with confirmed friendlies after formal introductions and an affirmation of the host-guest contract.

Cleansing may also be done with ash (which can be thematically tied to Fire, if you want to play up the Cultic/Runic aspect), which with its small particle size is useful for removing surface grime (like sweat, dirt, etc.), although it will in turn need to be removed - with water or a scraper of some kind. Oil will also have to be scraped off, as the Romans did before entering the baths with a strigil.

 

[jeffjerwin]

In the Book of Heortling Mythology there is an Orlanthi depiction of Dara Happan gate rituals: 

"Orlanth was the most thoughtful of his siblings, and wanted recognition of his place in the world from the Emperor. More – he wanted his place in the world to be equal to the Emperor’s. So he traveled to the Emperor’s palace, but was rebuffed at the gate. He tried again but the door was shut in his face. He tried once more and was thrown out by the Emperor’s guards. Angry, he smashed open the gate, blew down the door and threw the guards over the palace walls. He confronted the Emperor and demanded his place at the Emperor’s side. The Emperor merely shrugged and turned away. Orlanth challenged him to the Three Tests, which the Emperor could not ignore. The 294 Judges were assembled and the young upstart pitted his powers against the Emperor of the Universe."

Obviously the position of the Emperor's Porter is important here, and it is they who mediates access to the inner part of the palace: it's a little like the Butler in 19th century society. Thus there's probably a ritual confrontation at the threshold and Orlanth's behavior is the very definition of impoliteness. Also, the Heortling greeting is obviously going to get no reaction. Orlanth was probably left waiting while they figured out who was lowly enough to interact with the stranger. There was apparently no one of the right status. Who was Yelm's porter?

[Sir_Godspeed]

28 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

There was apparently no one of the right status. Who was Yelm's porter?

That might have been a hypothetical question - but I'm genuinely curious.

[womble]

4 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Who was Yelm's porter?

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/how-orlanth-met-ernalda/

Says God Gryphon.

[M Helsdon]

12 hours ago, Martin said:

Do Dara Happans [heartland lunars] (and/or others in the empire) have such a formal greeting procedure? 

No doubt, but the nature of the greeting will be determined by relative status; a Lodrilli is likely to be far less status conscious than a city/noble Dara Happan, and be relatively friendly. If you aren't a Dara Happan, or a very senior Lunar, then you are obviously inferior, and in this case a noble Dara Happan is unlikely to even acknowledge you. Instead, they may have a lower status greeter who will greet these foreign persons, and then approach (with great diffidence) their employer, and if they aren't immediately dismissive, act as a conduit. If you are really foreign, then the greeter will be a slave (still of higher status then you, given their owner) and you are unlikely to ever see the noble personage, or get far beyond the outer courtyard or chambers.

Should you be worthy of notice, then there may be a formal exchange of genealogies to determine relative status (and if noble they may be able to trace their descent from Yelm himself), and once your inferiority has been established, the correct manner of dealing with you will be determined. If you aren't sent away to deal with a functionary, then a servant might perform a meeting ritual (its duration depending on your status - short, and you won't be given an audience) probably involving the sharing of fire, and then cleansing you of spiritual pollution - if they really like you, you might be offered a greeting robe to wear over you obviously inferior garb, and sandals so that your impure feet do not pollute their home. The state of the robe and sandals predicts the hospitality you'll receive - a worn old robe isn't a good sign, and straw sandals are similarly a negative indicator. No robe or sandals and you aren't getting further into the house, chum, but the functionary might take your greeting and message to their boss.

So for outsiders, you have to navigate the door porter, then a functionary, then perhaps a chamberlain, and in a noble household, there are likely to be a number of ranked chamberlains, and go through the exchange over and over again. Bearing a seal of someone of known status might ease you way.

Lunars won't be as hard to greet, but relative status will have an effect.

All non-canonical speculation.

Edited December 11, 2018 by M Helsdon

[jeffjerwin]

2 hours ago, womble said:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/how-orlanth-met-ernalda/

Says God Gryphon.

Gold Gryphon also tries to bar Orlanth's access to Yelm ('the Maggot King') in Hell, so this makes sense. This probably means that the doors to noble DHs are decorated with Gryphons as well.

[Darius West]

Solar Hospitality:

Hopwite! Thwow him to the fwoa!  Vewwy Wuffly!  Know this Owanfi webble, you wiw be maw than wepwimanded foa yoa viowence!

[womble]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Solar Hospitality:

Hopwite! Thwow him to the fwoa!  Vewwy Wuffly!  Know this Owanfi webble, you wiw be maw than wepwimanded foa yoa viowence!

LOL.

[Byll]

On 12/11/2018 at 11:02 AM, Joerg said:

Dara Happan society - especially the upper echelon - is all about formality. Theirs is a six-tiered society which probably has different pronouns  or pre- or suffixes based on the relative and absolute social standing. Think what is sort of common knowledge of Japanese, and build up from there. So we can either invent some such suffixes or prefixes, or otherwise think up flowery adjectives in the language spoken at the game table to accompany the address, with a side serving in superlatives.

From above to below, there are likely different grades of respect or affectation towards the lesser person, too.

There is no real need to announce one's social status, however - the imperial Dara Happan dress code takes care of that. Instead, one's alignment with one's house (association, whatever) and that house's sponsor would be given. (Again, that might be seen from ornaments worn, but those are less common than the dress code, so it is worth telling that.)

Of most immediate interest would be the function of the person addressing the arrivals, and probably the offer to find a place in the sun or near a fire while waiting for the low-ranking person to bring someone of sufficient eminence to perform the official greeting.

 

Altogether, it's a bit like "Most respectable <rank description>, you are approaching <territory of house>, please await here in the reception zone while the lowly me, <self-description>, is bringing a person of sufficient rank to address your concerns."

On the relative  level maybe we could fall back on the Sire - Sir - Sirrah form or talking up across or down to someone. I'm not sure that this is historically attested but if it's good enough for Mr Shakespeare... 

It might be entertaining to qualify the level of superiority or inferiority,  but as you point out there would probably be intermediaries to avoid the embarrassment of direct communication from noble to servant other than within the household perhaps

It would be nice also to have a prefix for the six classes. I frequently get these muddled up but as I currently remember them, they are Nobles, Witnesses, Citizens, Overseers, Half Citizens, and Slaves? My preference would be to keep them as short as possible, perhaps: Lord, Judge,  Don,  Chief, Hand, Swab

I recall seeing officers mentioned somewhere, but I can't remember if they are a sort of witness or witnesses are a sort of noble.

Fortunate Succession (16 Vuranostum) mentions four classes "Noble, Citizen, half-citizen and newcomer", later (26 Khordavu) talks of "Social Order : The Emperor, and the overlords, Assistants and Witnesses, !0 Sons and Servants including Foreman and Soldiers", and again  (35 Erzanestu) it mentions 'toga men' or senators from the provincial cities being placed (alongside?) the patrician nobles who keep ceremonial priestly duties.
Entekosiad (Coming of Lendarsh - Hurfor)  has a footnote saying 'fifths' are servants or Dara Happan 'Half Persons' wihile 'sixths' are slaves

[Sir_Godspeed]

The Glorious Reascent says about Emperor Orogoros, that he passed "laws contrary to modesty", which is specified to mean that people had to remove their hats and shoes in his presence. This is a historical text, but since it is so judging of this event, one assumed that modern DH (or at least, at some point within Time) views keeping one's shoes and hats on in the Emperor's presence a way to preserve "modesty". Whether this applies only to meetings between the aristocracy and the Emperor, or whether it applies to lower echelons of DH society I have no idea.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Sir_Godspeed

[Darius West]

I recently read that apparently Antirius (aka Yelmalio) is also the Sun Pantheon god of Hospitality.  (Glorantha Sourcebook 2018: p102)  I wepeat!  Thwow him to the fwoa Hopwite! This unwuly webble will wearn the Sowah Pantheon is not to be twifled with! 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Darius West