Pendragon newbie

[Sir Carter]

Hi all

just ant to say high. I’ve just bought the new Pendragon edition 5.2 and very impressed so far looking forward to gaming it. Either with my friends or maybe with an online group. So this was just a very brief intro. I look forward to talking much more about this game and others 

[jeffjerwin]

Welcome to Logres, Carter!

[Morien]

Welcome!

Not that you need to worry about it yet, but if you end up starting your own group and are curious about the other books of the Pendragon line, here is some of the discussion we had earlier:

In any case, the Forum is a very friendly and active place, so if you have any problems with the setting or the rules, feel free to ask for advice!

 

[Tizun Thane]

Hello! Just curious, so...

What are you looking for in Pendragon? The arthurian feel? The dynastic game? The gritty setting, yet full of light?

 

[Sir Carter]

I’ve always had an interest in the Arthurian legends. Both historical and the romance. I’ve got a few armies set in the end of the Roman Period and the Saxon and Pictish Raiders. With Pendragon I’m hoping to capture the feel of the legends and it’s a RPG that really focus on Roll Play rather then hack and slash of other fantasy games. So my setting is that of high chivalry set in a mysterious realm of abandoned Roman ruins and faerie magic. As well as all the intrigue at court. And quests 

[Tizun Thane]

2 hours ago, Carter said:

So my setting is that of high chivalry set in a mysterious realm of abandoned Roman ruins and faerie magic. As well as all the intrigue at court. And quests  

A man after my own heart. Welcome!

[Ian Absentia]

Pro Tip for Noobs:  Ignoring the Passions and Traits mechanics streamlines game play significantly!

Enjoix!

!i!

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

Pro Tip for Noobs:  Ignoring the Passions and Traits mechanics streamlines game play significantly! 

At the cost of removing one of the unique aspects of the game.

[Ian Absentia]

6 minutes ago, Morien said:

At the cost of removing one of the unique aspects of the game.

Two of them, in fact.  Twice as streamlined!

!i!

[TerryTroll]

17 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Pro Tip for Noobs:  Ignoring the Passions and Traits mechanics streamlines game play significantly!

You might as well remove Glory while you are at it. I wouldn't call that a pro-tip myself.

They have pretty much been the driving force behind most of the conflicts and drama in our game so far. Without them you might as well not be playing Pendragon IMHO. I'm not sure Pendragon needs much streamlining to be honest. It is a pretty straight forward system until you use the battle rules or get into the nitty gritty of running an estate (it these if anything that need streamlining).

[Tizun Thane]

17 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Pro Tip for Noobs:  Ignoring the Passions and Traits mechanics streamlines game play significantly!

To be exact, do not use passions as an easy way to turn your knight into a super sayan.

Use traits in a way dont enhance roleplaying. In normal circonstances (non-magical or exceptionnal), your player choose his actions and get a check. Never forget checks. But you don't have to roll generous to offer a marvelous gift to your friend (except selfish 16 or a magical compulsion). You don't have to roll chaste to refuse the advance of a lusty wench (except luxurious 16). etc.

[Atgxtg]

21 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Two of them, in fact.  Twice as streamlined!

!i!

But not half as good. Streamlining an RPG isn't necessarily an improvement. Those complicated bits exist for a reason. Taking away stuff like Traits and Passions is basically ripping out major aspects of the Pendragon RPG - to the point where it might not even be Pendragon anymore. I can see a new GM downplaying traits and passions until they (and their players) get more familiar and comfortable with the game system, but ignoring them means ignoring Chivalry, and is as bad as ignoring knighthood, the round table or even that King Arthur fellow that the game is named after. 

 

If someone wants a more streamlined Arthurian RPG, try Prince Valiant (assuming that it returns sometime in the near future). It gives a much more streamlined game, and even includes a streamlined versions of traits & passions as an optional rule. IN fact porting over PVs trait and passion system to KAP would be better than just dropping traits and passions entirely. 

 

 

 

[Atgxtg]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:07 PM, Carter said:

Hi all

just ant to say high. I’ve just bought the new Pendragon edition 5.2 and very impressed so far looking forward to gaming it. Either with my friends or maybe with an online group. So this was just a very brief intro. I look forward to talking much more about this game and others 

Welcome, I'm sure your see a lot of discussion going on about Pendragon. It is both a very good and a very popular RPG. 

[Ian Absentia]

6 hours ago, TerryTroll said:

You might as well remove Glory while you are at it. I wouldn't call that a pro-tip myself.

Dang, I forgot to suggest that, too.  Simplify, simplify, simplify!

We are, of course, discussing the very things that make Pendragon what it is, what draws us to it, and what's going to give Carter a game that's different from his D&D or Pathfinder game.  Not better, necessarily, but different.  And wonderful.  But as @Atgxtg points out above, for the unfamiliar, it's easy to fall back on muscle memory and resort to point-and-click roleplaying.  I've done it myself.  Personality before physics!

My apologies for my lack of irony flags. Welcome to the party, pal!

!i!

Edited July 5, 2019 by Ian Absentia
De-cloaking irony

[Atgxtg]

11 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

My apologies for my lack of irony flags. Welcome to the party, pal!

 

Whoa! I was about to unleash the dragons and there're harder to recall that a squadron of B-52. 

 

Maybe we need an irony banner?

[Cornelius]

22 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

To be exact, do not use passions as an easy way to turn your knight into a super sayan.

Use traits in a way dont enhance roleplaying. In normal circonstances (non-magical or exceptionnal), your player choose his actions and get a check. Never forget checks. But you don't have to roll generous to offer a marvelous gift to your friend (except selfish 16 or a magical compulsion). You don't have to roll chaste to refuse the advance of a lusty wench (except luxurious 16). etc.

As mentioned by others. Traits and Passions are the core of the system imho. It creates the drama of the questing knight. When he has to balance his love for his lady with his loyalty for his lord. Or when his valor fails him when confronted with the giant threatening his home.

They are also the anchor for a novice player. Knowing your character is honest will help you in defining the character and play it out. 

[Sir Carter]

Hi

Some interesting comments here. Personally I would want to leave Passions and Traits in. It seems core to the games theme and will encourage roll play. Otherwise you might just as well play any Fantasy game. Reading through the rules I cannot wait to start a game

Whilst I'm here can anyone suggest the best supplement to pick up? I will eventually pick the all up for the new Pendragon 5.2. Also are the original Pendragon supplement titles worth picking up from sites such as eBay?   

 

Thanks

[Morien]

10 hours ago, Carter said:

Whilst I'm here can anyone suggest the best supplement to pick up? I will eventually pick the all up for the new Pendragon 5.2. Also are the original Pendragon supplement titles worth picking up from sites such as eBay?   

Check out this thread:

 

As for the earlier books, the regional & adventure books are well-worth it, although I wouldn't bother with Ebay and just buy them as pdfs from Chaosium.

[Hzark10]

1 hour ago, Morien said:

As for the earlier books, the regional & adventure books are well-worth it, although I wouldn't bother with Ebay and just buy them as pdfs from Chaosium.

I second the first part.  For the latter half, it depends on what you like. Personally, I like having the actual paper copy. So that would mean buying the pdf and then printing it (paper and ink costs) or buy the book where you can.  

Welcome, btw. Hope you find everything you need. Be aware, some/most of us have opinions one way or another, but we all agree that Pendragon is a great game.

If you want to concentrate on quests, then you might want to look at the Classic Pendragon section at "Tales of Chivalry and Romance" or "Tales of Magic and Miracles" to see how you can create your own adventures.

The best advice I can give you is, Your Pendragon May Vary.  Choose what works for you and just have fun.

[creativehum]

15 hours ago, Carter said:

Hi

Some interesting comments here. Personally I would want to leave Passions and Traits in. It seems core to the games theme and will encourage roll play. Otherwise you might just as well play any Fantasy game. Reading through the rules I cannot wait to start a game

Whilst I'm here can anyone suggest the best supplement to pick up? I will eventually pick the all up for the new Pendragon 5.2. Also are the original Pendragon supplement titles worth picking up from sites such as eBay?   

Thanks

I suspect I am in the minority around these parts, but I advise is to get King Arthur Pendragon 5.2, the Great Pendragon Campaign, and then stop buying for a while. 

Take the time to read through these books. Get a sense of what the game is, what you want to do with it, what excites you about it. 

Then ask yourself: "Is there anything else I really need to play this game? Do I feel like anything is missing?" 

Because the fact is, out of the gate all you really need is KAP. Seriously. I cannot stress this enough. KAP is a brilliantly designed piece of RPG design and it has all you need.

Then, if you want some support (and it is good support!) grab GPC and you'll have a trove of advice and ideas for play. These two books alone get get you going and give you months, if not years of play.

All the other books, while great, can swamp you. They put a microscope to certain details of the setting or history or mechanics... and if you are not interested focusing or expanding on all those details they can gum up the works for a game that works elegantly out of the box.

But if you ask yourself "Do I feel like anything is missing to be able to run this for my friends?" then you'll most like find a resource in one of the supplements. 

Here is a link to a post someone wrote about The Essential List of King Arthur Pendragon Roleplaying Books.  I am linking it because I happen to agree with it. 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by creativehum

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, creativehum said:

I suspect I am in the minority around these parts, but I advise is to get King Arthur Pendragon 5.2, the Great Pendragon Campaign, and then stop buying for a while. 

That's not bad advice. A new GM needs the core rules\ book, and the GPC is timeline for the entire campaign, so those two are probably the best placwe to start, and probably take some time to "digest" . 

5 hours ago, creativehum said:

Take the time to read through these books. Get a sense of what the game is, what you want to do with it, what excites you about it. 

Then ask yourself: "Is there anything else I really need to play this game? Do I feel like anything is missing?" 

 

Because the fact is, out of the gate all you really need is KAP. Seriously. I cannot stress this enough. KAP is a brilliantly designed piece of RPG design and it has all you need.

It might not just be what you need, but also what the other books can add. No one needs to be able to play during the time of Uther, but it can be nice. No one needs to be able to improve their manor,or build a castle, or play a lord or some sort, but they can all add to the experience. 

But I agree with you about how/where to start. For those of us who have played the game for decades, and have most or all of the existing supplements, incorporating something new is pretty easy and can add new elements and more depth to the game, and help to keep all the campaigns from feeling the same (they do all share the same timeline of major events).  But at the start? Better to learn how to handle the  the core game mechanics and storyline. They are key.

[Tizun Thane]

14 hours ago, creativehum said:

Here is a link to a post someone wrote about The Essential List of King Arthur Pendragon Roleplaying Books.  I am linking it because I happen to agree with it. 

And yet, there are factual mistakes in it. For example,

Quote

Tales of [Spectre Kings, Chivalry & Romance, Mystic Tournaments, Magic & Miracles]: these are compilations and repackaging of stuff from earlier setting supplements. You are better off getting those earlier supplements.

Not at all. All of these are compendium of adventures (quite good, for the most part actually).

Quote

The Grey Knight: This is a 1st edition supplement and would need reworking of some stats and rewards to make it relevant. The Spectre King book is essentially a rewrite of it to fit 3rd edition.

You mean, tales of mystic tournaments? The Spectre King is not a rewrite of the Grey Knight Adventure. They share one element (an undead knight) and that's all. They're both good by the way.

[Morien]

38 minutes ago, Tizun Thane said:

And yet, there are factual mistakes in it. For example,

And also the claim that Book of the Estate is superseded by Book of the Warlord. Nope. They now have the same system in place and are complementary.

[Atgxtg]

 

6 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

And yet, there are factual mistakes in it..

Yes, but in creativehum's defense (guess there really is a first time for everything) the basic statement of just what is "essential" for Pendragon still holds up. All a GM really needs is the core rules and the timeline from the GPC. And technically the GPC isn't actually essential (quite a few people on-line feel this it too much of a straitjacket although I do not agree), as GMs do not have to follow Greg's Mostly Mallory based timeline. So all that is "essential" is the core rules, and (probably) the GPC.

 

Of course that is (or should be ) true or virtually every RPG. A good RPG should be complete and not require supplements to play. One of the nice things I have to say about Chaosium is that in general you don't need to buy any of their supplements to enjoy their RPGs. The supplements to enhance the experience but are not required (except maybe Cults of Prax for RQ2, but that's was one supplement). 

[Morien]

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

And technically the GPC isn't actually essential (quite a few people on-line feel this it too much of a straitjacket although I do not agree), as GMs do not have to follow Greg's Mostly Mallory based timeline.

I may have said something along those line in Nocturnal Forum, back in the day. More of a complaint that there are limits what you can do in Salisbury, what with Camelot and the High King two days away (one if you push it). Of course, one is free to toss the timeline aside, and I tend to juggle the events a bit, so that they match the current twists and turns of the PKs' story arc better.

After wrestling with a Middle-earth campaign where you have a couple of sentences of events every few centuries of history as your campaign skeleton, one comes to appreciate the crutch that GPC gives even to an experienced GM! Of course, if one is just playing KAP as a 1 adventure per month D&D variant, then GPC's breadth of years is less of a concern. But at the same time, one would miss out on the dynastic aspect that really sets KAP apart from games like D&D. Also, one thing I really like about KAP is that the characters are not orphaned murder-hobos that they so easily tend to be in D&D. Not to say that you can't have a very interesting and socially-connected characters in D&D, but the stereotype of a wandering adventure without a past or a future is quite valid, I think.