Joerg

Each of the two Yelmalio settings that have been described in some greater RuneQuest detail have their alibi light lady of Yelmalio, although in case of Starnia Stormrender, she has rather few male rivals. "Devotee" translates as rune level. I wonder how many templars will be (biologically) female. Or is Vega just the only biologically female rune level in the Sun County hierarchy that openly identifies as female-gendered (i.e. taking on the female role in a marriage, risking or even welcoming motherhood - or at least a successful pregnancy)? What is the proportion of "covert females" in the ranks (including male-plumbed templars strongly identifying otherwise)? The templars are likely to have "sacred brotherhood" relationships with fellow templars. No idea whether these are monogamous or polyamory in nature...

And, as of today, Yahoogroups will be taken off the net. At the moment, the content is still available, but that might change when the date changes in Silicon Valley. Has anybody salvaged the World of Glorantha and HeroQuest RPG groups?

I wonder what kind of "The Lion Cub" story one might weave from the Solanthi. Hakkuna Mattata, anyone? Yes, there definitely should be heirs to the Pendali lineage, although every able-bodied male of weapon-bearing age should have been involved in the raid/mercenary business. The Greymane business has been the hottest investment the Solanthi and their neighbors have seen in generations, whether led by the old lion or his two sons Hardral (who sided with Broyan) and Varstari (who took Lunar silver). How much lion behavior do we want in the Pendali/Basmoli lineages? We know that Greymane has several wives, and that his favorite wife owns the farm where he would usually spend his time after the 1618 raid. We don't know anything about the mother(s) of Hardral and Varstari. Could be his favorite wife if he chose his favorite by her fecundity, could be other wives if he chose his favorite wife for her qualities as his hostess and entertainer inside and outside of the bed-chamber. Greg wrote a couple of lineages for the Pendali kingdoms, with the divine lineage descended from Ifttala unbroken by other lineages edging in - not even cousins with a similar lineage. But then, Greg distanced himself from those Pendali houses As to ancient Pendali culture: Do we have a pride of female queens supporting the strongest male as their alpha? This kind of social structure would be a form of polygamy where the females determine the membership in the pride, with the male acting as the genitor for their offspring and occasionally called in to aid in the hunt on extra-dangerous prey? But then, the Pendali and their distant heirs among the Solanthi aren't hunter-gatherers (with rather little gathering), but a nobility among pastoralist/agriculturalist subjects, acculturated themselves to such life. Tenants take the role of infertile wives in a pride - contributing to feed the alpha and the mothers of the pride. The Holy Country section of the Guide refers to Ditali and Solanthi collectively as Entrulings. But given Greymane's boast that even the Solanthi shepherds drink from golden cups after his 1618 raid, we can assume that while the boar and pig are playing a bigger role in their sacrifices than among the Heortlings, their agriculture is pretty similar to that of the Heortlings. I wonder into which direction the Arstola aldryami want to go with their magical seeds. Apart from the bottom of the river valleys, Maniria is pretty much forested already, until you come to Ditali lands and Longsi Land (where the Esrolian shepherds are strong). While the climate is a lot more clement, the degree of cultivated land appears to be similar to what Caesar and Varus found east of the Rhine, with too much bloody forest already. Not an obvious target for magical reforestation, rather a target for a takeover of a woodland council as in Umathela. The two big targets with unforested lands are Ramalia (which is adjacent to Tarinwood rather than Arstola) and Esrolia. Do the Redwood aldryami have any plans to participate in this venture, or does it require a forest with a Great Tree? But then, if Peloria is going to be subject to this, there a no such elf forests outside of Dorastor in Peloria, and the closest strong presence of aldryami are the refugees from Erigia in Rathorela who lack such a Great Tree, too. But then, the reduced fertility of Prax might be an additional problem for the Redwood aldryami, although it wasn't Chaos that destroyed the Redwood savannah, but the humans directing Oakfed against the trees.

I wouldn't expect many Solanthi to return home from that battle. Many would have been slain by an enraged Harrek Those who broke and ran may have been rounded up by cavalry on that wing, and may have ended up as prisoners waiting to be ransomed. As successful as Greymane's earlier raids may have been, ransoming back thousands of warriors will have been above the financial abilities of their kin, so many of the captured survivors may have ended up in slavery. If Greymane or any of his closest companions - including his sons - survived, then possibly as the result of a successful Divine Intervention, but an enraged Harrek might be able to interfere with even that. The Battle of Pennel Fort may have hit the western barbarians almost as badly as the Dragonkill hit Saird and Peloria.

You can have your cake and eat it: while the tribes existed in that place, dissident clans may have been displaced from the Alda-chur region and forced to take refuge in the Alone confederation. Where exactly did the information that they weren't originate? As far as my short research found out, Sartar Rising: Barbarian Adventures created this information. It was the first official product presenting such information on the tribes of Sartar, and its presentation was met with some disbelieve and criticism. Dragon Pass: Land of Thunder basically copy-pasted that previous publication, embellishing it here and there, and adding local detail. DP:LoT is one of several fan-sourced publications from the HW/HQ1 era. While this was a very nice acknowledgement of the Glorantha tribe which had kept the interaction with the setting alive, this publicized detail information where Greg Stafford had already created such detail info earlier, but due to the (temporary) loss of the master maps to this scale and their gazetteers, Issaries Inc needed to put out something, and this crowd-sourcing was an invitation for fans to let stuff from their campaign settings flow into published canon. I cannot say for sure, but I suspect that the information in Barbarian Adventures had to be created out of whole cloth as the previously made concise documents were AWOL The designers decided to up the ante, to set up the "rebels" vs "enslaved tribes" polarisation in that publication to illustrate the consequences of the occupation. I think they overshot that target... With Composite History of Dragon Pass their main document, the authors somehow cobbled together their list of tribes, and as Harvar's recent victory over the Righteous Wind was a lot more immediate than Terasarin's obligation to some Tarsh Exile refugees, the BA version saw print. TL,DR: The special composition and origin of the Tres may have been the product of losing Greg's detail info on Sartar. One thing that Barbarian Adventures and Dragon Pass: Land of Thunder did quite well was their section on "inns in Sartar". An inn usually is a hamlet's meeting hall, with the proprietor something like a thane in charge of dealing with assemblies, and with travelers seeking hospitality. I would suggest that they have tribal moot places away from settlements, on sacred hills or similar. Their tribal kings may have been on the itinerary between the clans, or even the clans' thanes, and have their administrative building in the city. Unlike with the Quivini tribes, that city was available basically from the time of creation of those new tribes. Tribal villages were built around the same time as the city was built. The Amad were more exposed to hostile interaction with the trolls than the other two tribes, so making a tribal stronghold may have had a higher priority for them than for the Bachad and Tres. I suspect in the maps analyzed by Jeff they were written as of 1621 or even 1613, if they are based on those master maps. Those numbers are now being taken kicking and screaming to the onset of the current timeline. From my experience working with Jeff, he is more likely to make an educated guess on such numbers than to start a spreadsheet calculating filters like losses from the Windstop, and recovery efforts, and return of folk from exile, to calculate these new numbers. I have some old notes that had 500 inhabitants per hex, each hex one clan, and exact hex outlines for each tribe (matching the White Bear and Red Moon map). I think that this kind of info led into the Sartar campaign, and into the creation of this finer scale map. WF15 is set prior to the Windstop, IIRC. People may have perished, may have ended up as slaves, or may have fled out of the Windstop area. The Torkani occupied that place before the arrival of the Bachad, and the Bachad may have acknowledged that prior claim of the Torkani.

Listen to that individual: sure. Believe everything that lunatic writes: don't.

This still leaves the tribal Yelmalians among the Aldachuri and the Dinacoli. Coming from Saird, these tribes possibly have been converted from Elmal for significantly longer while remaining Orlanthi rather than striving to imitate the Dara Happans - why else would they have fled from the Conquering Daughter into Dragon Pass? The Aldachuri accepted dissidents from Vanntar, possibly about some of those policies which make Vanntar into a variant of Confederate Louisiana.

Apart from that crazy dragon outline that was supposed to become the new dragon (one of the oldest "secrets" we learned about the EWF), becoming a dragon as individuals or groups appears to be the main goal of the EWF. Obduran is the only Orlanth-worshiper who managed to become a dragon and then to ascend even further. Ingolf had been pretty far on the way when he stumbled and used his draconic powers in an entangling way. Most of the leaders on the Third Council were "short cut" practitioners like Isgangdrang, whose method was a variation on the Immanent Mastery path. The Dragon Sun emperor of Dara Happa may have been a more conservative mystic, and Lorenkargatan/Labrygon and his goals remain a mystery. Great Lord Burin apparently was mainly interested in becoming a force of war, similar to Drang the Diamond Storm Dragon, the Great Dragon shape of Isgangdrang. Great Dragons were similar in shape and magical power to the True Dragons, but unlike those they weren't transcendental beings. It isn't quite clear to me whether the EWF ever fielded True Dragons or just Great Dragons (physically transformed mystics, or possibly entire mystical schools). Their enemies probably didn't care either way, in victory or defeat. King of Sartar mentions schools that advocated a communal ascension to Dragonhood, and if there were dragons born from the EWF who participated in the Dragonkill, then I will assume that these communal approaches must have been successful as they weren't exterminated in 1042. (Or alternatively, they were forcibly ascended in the mass utuma of 1042.) Or they were dragons born into a human shape whose limits they overcame by meditation etc. Godunya did teach in and meddle with the EWF before returning to Kralorela to deal with Shang-Hsa MHNBC.

Joy - or Henosis, oneness with the Creator - is the basis for Hrestolism even in its earliest manifestation in Year 2 ST. Hrestol's teaching basically is that there is more than the dour Solace which doesn't really promise anything as you decay by aging. (Which, incidentally, doesn't seem to be much of a problem for Hrestol himself as a third generation Brithini - both he and his sister were obviously born before the self-sacrifice of Xemela, which appears to have occurred a good while before the Dawn). But yes, apart from a few schools that may have formed from isolated Brithini colonies (looking at the Ingareens here), Henosis is a basic tenet that separates Malkionism from Zzaburism. The Ascended Masters are probably less common a trait than Henosis, and IMO henosis is still pursued among at least half of the Malkioni in the Kingdom of Seshnela. Just not confessed. Do the Rokari watchers have a Joy Division, and do they sound like love will tear them apart?

I think that they were meant to be the Warrior magic, Tailed Priest magic and Winged Priest magic. When the 'newts finally were published, their magic was no longer following the rules for rune magic.

I thought barbarians weren't dependent on that grey goo stuff inside their skulls? What is a secret, what is a long publicized former secret? Griffin Mountain is where the Wind Sword is hidden, and Balastor's Barracks may yield the axe of that champion of Pavis. Oh, and Baroshi may be found in the depths of Snake Pipe Hollow. Listing these here doesn't really make those scenarios invalid or unplayable. If you are discussing ogres hiding in human society and give examples, every such example will of course make that hidden group public. You cannot discuss these critters with examples without uncovering some secret. The topic is a spoiler all in itself. Yes, there are ogres in Glorantha, and that's how they work! Likewise we cannot discuss the Black Fang without spoiling them as something that has to be experienced before it can be researched. A certain Light Lord in Sun County is an illuminate? The son of a Citadel King in Balazar has been seen? Garrath Sharpsword is a descendant of Sartar? There is a giant baby on the Cradle? Pinchining is a Gold Wheel Dancer? All of this has been mentioned hundreds of times. I think I have found a way to warn of potential spoilers without having to do anything soon again... Can you spot it?

Despite that moonin' troll, night visibility in Glorantha can ignore the Red Moon. Gianni wants a dark night for his Kralorela games, and reducing the apparent size of the moon was his proposed solution, when the Red Moon isn't really the problem. That's something the Mongoose Second Age setting got wrong, too: Regardless of the size and phase (or even presence) of the Red Moon, Lightfore messes up a good night's darkness in a clear sky. Lightfore was even brighter and possibly larger until the Bridling of Kargzant (late in the first century ST), and it was his presence that made the difference between the Greater Darkness and the Gray or even Silver Age. Further East, the Sun Disk apparently never went away all the way, and only the Emperor (HeenMaroun/Govmeranen) left the world. Kralorela (and Teshnos) may have received more of the Greater Darkness than the rest of the East due to the neighborhood of the Wastes. Despite the apparent size of the Red Moon being roughly the same all over in canonical Glorantha, the intensity of the moonglow might diminish with the distance. The glow might interact badly with the draconic energies permeating Kralorela - Argrath's dragon magic even nullifies the Glowline effects. Voila, a lot less reddish glow from the west. And there is the possibility that a quest or huge ritual that weakened a specific deity may result in that deity's celestial representation being dimmed regionally. The eastern myths have a lot less to say about the death of the sun - they don't know or at least talk about that... Likewise, Lightfore might be dampened in Kralorela since Godunya took over again from Sheng. Having an imperial magic that dampens the influence of Kargzant is well within the capability of the dragon empire IMO and might be a precaution against another such horse warlord incident. My question about Shadows floating above Ignorance was another suggestion to get a pitch black night, or at least one a lot less bright than the Gloranthan norm. With that many demons/infernal antigods hiding under Kralorelan cities, there might be something like the opposite of the Dara Happan glowing city spheres in the sky, too. A sort of sunglasses effect.

The Brithini way probably is impossible, within Time. Mistakes are accumulated even if one goes on tiptoes to avoid them. Taking Brithos out of Time may have conserved a bit. Having an interface by which the Brithini can influence the Surface World (and harvest energies they don't create outside of Time any more) might mar that existence. The Rokari are using a God Learner scripture for their imitation of ancient Malkioni ways while condemning what that way was. I think that Godtime Brithela offered a nice and pleasant way of life, before the Ice advanced and the Vadeli ruined it all. The six tribes of the Logician men of Danmalastan followed each their intellectual challenge with sorcery derived from logic -- empirical experience (Viymorn), communication (Kachast), shaping (Kadenit), syncretic cogitation (Enro(l)val), external memory (Tadenit), and Sea (Waertag). Waertag's endeavor doesn't seem to be that intellectual when formulated like this, but maybe there was something else, less physical and more intellectual, at the base of his move to the sea. Perhaps Domination? The mastery over the Sea Dragons and the behavior of some of the Blue Folk of the invading waters in western Peloria point into this direction. Leaving the land in pursuit of this might originally have been little but a side effect. Or the Logician who did this was Wartain, a triton. When I was involved in an (aborted, very early stage) project to explore the Seas of Glorantha, I came across a theory that the Seven Kindred of the Merfolk each had one of the ten tritons as their ancestor, and that the remaining three tritons were the shaman, the priest and the sorcerer of the seas. The Wartain tribe text from Wyrm's Footnotes 11 was slightly altered in the Sourcebook, replacing the name Wartain with that of Waertag, with the funny side-effect that Waertag becomes his own great-grandfather (father of Warera, grandfather of Malkion, who in turn sired Waertag). A case of incarnation in the third generation (or a later one if there were generations between the original one and Warera). Deities can do this stuff, Zzabur the son of Malkion claims a similar pre-existence as an Erasanchula. IMO Brithela was home to King Drona, the boar earth king (son of Kala? Britha?) and friend of Eurmal, who left his ancestral lands for Fronela - possibly to escape the dictates of the Logicians. Possibly leaving his brother Dromal behind to do the bidding of the Logicians. Anyway, with the Dromal caste (children of Kala, led by Dromal, the son of Malkion Aerlitsson and Kala, a mountain goddess of Brithela), the Logician men tribes received a caste of brown-skinned workers to do all the material stuff. Malkion had three (or four) sons with Phlia, the Tilnta, and (according to the genealogies in Hrestol's Saga) two named daughters, which then married two of their brothers - Menena marrying the supernumerary brother who doesn't have a caste named after himself, and Eule marrying Talar. (Blame @scott-martin for inspiring this convoluted concept...) I have the impression that Malkion Aerlitsson provided a son each to all seven tribes of the Logicians for the founder to incarnate (or, in case of the female logicians, to marry their leader - for whom he provided a daughter to incarnate, anyway). Thus we get the branch of the family which Hrestol married into when he arrived on post-Dawn Brithos. Hrestol's Saga throws some confusion into the use of Holar for the Red Caste son and Horal as the husband of Menena, of the Talar caste although he is a (full) brother of Talar, and one of his son emerging as "Duke" of "Horalwal" on coastal (southeastern?) Brithos.

Maybe a Lightfore cult with special cases Yelmalio and Kargzant and mentioning others might be less problematic? The Planetary Son Reladivus that becomes known as Kargzant happens to be the south-eastern Son of Yelm in the Copper Tablets (with Nivorah somehow winding up north of Alkoth due to stronger meandring of the Oslir River on the tablet than on modern maps). Only three of the eight planetary sons survive Umath's invasion of the sky, and all are changed by it. Verithurusa follows Umath into the near underworld and gets pregnant by him, Shargash emerges as the Red Planet and dismembers Umath beyond reconstitution, releasing the sons of Umath as his heirs, and Reladivus becomes Lightfore, a troubleshooter in the changed world. Still separate from Antirius, BTW. Along with Star Captains, Lightfore leads many a retreat of the forces of light and life, in many different guises. Antirius remains as the lesser Disk above Raibamus, and has mostly vertical movement, sinking lower and lower. It accompanies the Emperor (or his substitute) to the Hill of Gold twice in its role as the wyter of the Empire, once in preparation of the Dara Happan Dome, once after that dome was broken. Lightfore Kargzant appears in the Gray Age and empowers Jenarong. In return, Jenarong established Lightfore's superiority over Shargash with his resources. Antirius is recognized as the Sun Disk returning at the Dawn. Lightfore remains in the night sky. This creates a dual existence for Kargzant and Elmal each of whom carries the sun Disk in his chariot during the day and roams the sky at night. No idea what the aldryami have to say about their Yelmalio, and Daysenerus (the Iron Vrok's Yelmalio) wasn't around yet. That entity may have been born during the 375 ST Sun Stop, and then broke the Compromise three years later at the Battle of Night and Day. Unlike Elmal, I don't think that Kargzant had a presence as the last light on a high place in the world (ziggurat, tree, or mountain). Or rather, I am not aware of any high place that could have held that light, after all the ziggurat of Nivorah had been destroyed by Valind's Glacier. (His light might have rested on the glacier? And then retreated north to Kalikos as the glacier was parted by the Chaos invasion?) Aldryami Yelmalio might have rested in the crown of the Great Tree(s), and Elmal is known to have maintained a weak and cold light on top of Kero Fin. (Actually aided by Inora?) Yet both Elmal and Aldryami Yelmalio also were active on the ground/among the Stars (as above, so below) during the Gray Age, just like Kargzant was as his only known manifestation. It remains weird.

A wyter using a hero or demigod as the pre-existing entity (godling, hero, founder) definitely has passions like "Hate Dara Happans" or "Hate Trolls", and woe to the clan/tribe/warband when they go against one of these. The creation of the wyter is a contract, and if the obligations of the contract are broken, the wyter may act. Harvar Ironfist had personal control over at most four wyters - the Alda-chur confederation wyter, the Alda-chur city wyter, the Princeros wyter, his own clan's wyter. Perhaps that of a warband. The tribal wyters of all the other Aldachuri tribes were never at his disposal. Unless his position as Prince of the Far Point gave him access to Orlanth Rex' Command Priest, but I am not entirely convinced that a priest (tribal king?) under the influence would be able to command a wyter. Let alone to command it to act against the interests of its community. It isn't entirely clear to me which blessings a tribal wyter would bestow on the clans that would be so powerful that removing it would hurt the clan. Calling in the tribal cattle from that clan will hurt economically, but that has nothing to do with the wyter.

Barntar is possibly the most venerable "subcult of Orlanth" with a life of its own. Odayla is similar. Hedkoranth the Thunder Slinger has always been a Thunder Brother, as have the two aforementioned deities. The Thunder Brothers are one of those collective cults that defy normal rules, much like the Seven Mothers. Identifications are often only semi-correct - look at the difficulty to make sense of Dendara's relationship to Entekos. Likewise the Lightfore deities...

I have become quite sceptical of statements telling "tribe A has this speciality" or "tribe B is this". Tribes are made up from clans, and clans can be extremely diverse. The Varmandi are a tribute taking war clan inside the Colymar tribe, but their specialities aren't those of the tribe. If you have played King of Dragon Pass, you will have assembled your tribe from a number of quite disparate clans with hardly anything in common between all of them. Tribal identity may be imposed by the dominant clans who usually carry kingship. So, if you want the Bachad to be renowned troll fighters, having one or two clans with such experience may create the renown for the entire tribe. Your clan founding myths are usually so far back in time that the location where it happened may have become completely forgotten. The tribal founding often is more recent, although there are a few venerable tribes around. The Aramites for instance. Those in Dragon Pass tend to be a lot younger, unless you have an ancient subtribe (e.g. a triaty) having made the move back into the pass as a group - the Runegate Triaty may have been such a case, and the sub-tribe sort of survived the destruction of one of its clans with the founding of a replacement clan picking up a significant number of survivors of the previous clan. Elsewhere, no priestly council of Orlanthland has made tribes obsolete (and the Dragonkill only affected fairly newly re-founded tribes after 1042).

I'd say yes. Ghosts should be able to attack animals with the goal of possession. Including covert possession. Dominant or covert possession? Ghosts prefer to possess their own species, or at least beings of as close a body plan as they can manage, if they want to bring physical skills of their previous life into play. Herd men surely are a good ersatz human. A Pain Spirit would prefer organisms that are sensitive. A Lust Spirit wouldn't usually target geldings. Disease spirits take whatever target they can affect. Ghosts aren't "spirits" in this sense. Ghosts bound as spirits into crystals or matrices act like random spirits, but ghosts bound to a place via the Bind Ghost ritual or Thanatari head processes are not subject to this rule. "When the binder dies" may have different meanings for "dies". I don't think that crossing into and out of Alkoth releases your bound spirits whenever you enter this part of the Underworld. (I might be wrong about that...) Entering Hell on a heroquest had better not strip your questers of all their bound spirits, either, although if you You might be able to transfer the property of place (or unmovable object) into a movable portion of that place or object, and move that elsewhere. The Thunder Oak wyter of the Varmandi might be moved into a blessed acorn, or into a shoot kept alive and then either planted elsewhere or grafted onto another tree. Whether a dryad could be moved about like that I am not quite sure. I'd think so. The object itself may even survive the destruction of the binding if the inscription of the binding is destroyed or amputated (in case of bound animals). A binding might be flayed off its carrier. But then, a familiar with sufficiently long existence in an animal body may become an entity of its own, adopting the nature of the animal body and taking it along when the binding is terminated for whichever reason.

Sure about that? The problem closer to the Shan Shan, the more it might be eclipsed by the mountain peaks, but otherwise I always thought of the Red Moon as being as big as our moon say 3 hours after moon rise. Subjectively, that is. While being the largest object in the night sky, the Red Moon isn't the most luminous, but Lightfore is, despite being only the third in size. And Lightfore probably is about a luminous as our half moon. Absent cloud cover, that means you'll be able to navigate in open territory (outside of forestation). Also, along with Mastakos, Lightfore is the planet guaranteed to be in the night sky. The second half of the night will be darker, as Lightfore moves away from the Gates of Dawn. However that is balanced by the pre-dawn appearance of Theya. What does the Red Moon have to contribute to the night lumination? Her glow comes from a strange angle. On a clear night, you may have a number of planets out or not, Orlanth's Ring might be traversing the sky or not, and the Red Moon might look into your direction or away from you. Those are the variables. Lightfore is a constant, although it changes its angle. And Lightfore is complemented by the eastern and western Jumpers. The position of the Celestial desert might affect your local night light slightly. But in Glorantha you won't experience a New Moon's Night under a clear sky. Cloud Cover will do its job, though. So might wandering shadows. Does Ignorance have them?

It is not a separate existence as a cult with its own (independent) altar or temple, just a shared subcult. Much like Arroin is a shared subcult of Chalana Arroy and Humakt. For a fringe case, Hedkoranth the Thunder Slinger might be a better case, as his subcult was almost an independent cult in the HeroQuest era. Probably not any more, though.

Helamakt exists as a subcult of Heler. Heler is a quite complex deity, important to the Sea Pantheon although tragically severed from it, and the Orlanthi subcults probably cover only parts of what Heler once had. He is a friend to the Blue Moon and her husband Lorian, for instance, and aided them in their rise.

Syranthir and his lot had fought the usurper Arimadalla who had taken over Loskalmi (or Akemite, I have seen no details beyond the Guide or Middle Sea Empire) kingdom, and fought a long retreat with the forces he could gather. The Carmanians encountered Idovanus and found him to be an emanation of Irensavel, and Ganesatarus as a good approximation of what they accused Makan of. The foundations for Irensavalism are apparently laid by the writings of Tomaris, a Fronelan disciple of Hrestol during the time when he unified it into a kingdom - I think after his spell as Vadeli Judge, which probably came to pass after he had to flee Brithos with his Brithini wife following the unpleasantness with the successor of Talar Gresat Hoalarsson (who had been slain on the steps to the altar for his own wedding by Faralz. The three approaches to be the perfect Man-of-all are mentioned briefly in Missing Lands, the first in Seshneg ending with his exile to Brithos, the second in Fronela creating the Malkioni kingdom there, and a third attempt still in Fronela, cut short by his capture by Brithini from Akem. I think there are differences in the doctrines of the Seshnegi Hrestoli and the Fronelan ones who learned directly from Hrestol, and neither were satisfactory for Hrestol himself. While there will be some exchange between Fronela and Seshnela, Arolanit and Erontree prevented a full unification. I think that Hrestol himself only ever was exposed to his ancestor, Malkion. He received his first revelations in meditation, and his second and third ones probably too. He then would act on these revelations, applying them to the problem of the Malkioni he lived with, testing them and leaving behind changed societies. (In Brithos, he acted as a catalyst to unleash latent conflicts, and his term as Vadeli Judge may have left those folk changed, too.) The term Makan for the Invisible God probably was in use after the Gbaji Wars, at first in Jrustela and Seshnela. The Abiding Book spread that form of Hrestolism to all Malkioni who would accept it, including converts in Ralios and Maniria. I am not sure whether Syranthir and his bunch ever embraced it, but post Adalla-dynasty Loskalm certainly adhered to the Abiding Book as its scripture, with its references to Makan. Interestingly, the "Sharp Abiding" grimoire was the basis for the Order of New Order (Pilif the Magus) and the basis for Malkioneranism. Like the Sharp Abiding Book, this is a redaction by humans on the manifested word of God. The Rokari live within sight of the afterglow of the Red Ruins. Anything leading to magical excesses like that needs to be avoided. These aren't my original thoughts, I'm mostly mirroring what I remember of Nick Brooke's theories from 25 years ago based on glimpses of Greg's western stories like Hrestol's Saga: The first thing Hrestol did as a Man-of-all was to fight a battle against the Pendali and win. The second thing was to go on a quest to slay Ifttala, the ancestress of the Pendali and their link to the land goddess. Ritual preparation, a ride into the wild, meeting quest guardians and gaining support or overcoming obstacles, until he had left the mortal realm and was walking among the gods. There he applied his sword to the task... Afterwards, Hrestol was released from the Underworld at his father's intercession, another quest to the Great Temple of Seshna Likita. Froalar succeeded, fathered Ylream and Nebrola, and got Hrestol released, who afterwards went into Exile in Brithos. Arriving there in flagrant caste transgression, he slew several of his would-be captors. In the end he was allowed to remain if he restrained himself to his birth caste of Talar. Upon his arrival in Fronela, he seems to have built up his participation in the four castes again, and somehow quested to establish a united Malkioni kingdom in Fronela. Only which one? Seliset, the place where Tomaris conserved his geometrical wisdom, lies in Tawars, almost in what was Akem in the second century, but otherwise part of the Enjoreli lands. But Nenanduft might have been somewhat bigger under Hrestol or his successor. I wonder whether Hrestol did some quest against the Enjoreli, too. If so, he probably refrained from slaying another daughter o the land goddess... This could be written in the board header...

Jaldon's original tooth magic ate a hole into the Rubble Wall in 940, when the EWF still was at large - Labrygon/Lorenkargartan had just about finished his Puzzle Canal. He received his relevation upon visiting the Plateau of Statues with the giant representation of perfect tooth smiles on those statue heads. So, yes, there are a number of other toothed being possible. Krarshtkids, Boggles (Trickster's Swallow?), Dragonteeth (but that's Argrath's magic, inherited from Iason or Phoenician Cadmus, creating demigod warriors from a pouch of dragon's teeth), Darkness (trolls or giants), or Enostar's New Teeth forcing one of the gates open or just helping an advance element over the wall. Personally, I favor some giant and or trickster connection, and a physical breach of Dorasor's Wall, no simple fuzzing with the gate. Gate-breaking was how Jorbal Rhino-Khan entered the original city. With Jaldon present, I think we should see Jaldon's name-giving magic at work.

I would offer Boggles as an alternative to Krarshtkids. Boggles are infamous for nibbling away at anything in the Celestial Palace, leaving Tylenea's scarf in tatters, and loving Uleria to bits.

To be exact: he was the Prince from 1582 to 1600. Outlived his children by two years or so. Nope. New model city of the same type as Wilmskirk (the prototype), Jonstown, Swenstown and the hardly inhabited Duck Point. Building cities is what the dynasty excelled at. I would expect that to extend to the initial bunch of interior buildings, too. The Princedom of Sartar had a significant population of masons, and a royal project to start a city within a year would have attracted a fair bunch to the new city, with good prospects to remain in demand as provisional housing was upgraded. Completing the Aldachur road down into Traders Valley made the Sartar route even more attractive to traders, whether onwards past Whitewall to Karse or down the River to Nochet. Refugee pressure overcomes a lot of obstacles. The loss at Grizzly Peak may have been inevitable - it was the first battle that the Sartarites fought inside an active Glowline, and while Tarkalor had the King of Dragon Pass title, it didn't prepare him for imperial magic. Or Moirades' home-grown imitation of the Imperial college. Enslaved people? You don't enslave entire tribes, you dissolve them (see the Maboder, the Dundealos, the Kultain). You may enslave the captives in a battle, or you may raid a place and take the survivors into slavery, but if you do so, you exterminate the clan. Alda-chur was an important staging area, and the Sartarite terminus of the Trader's Valley leg of the road across or around the Dragonspine. Alone would have been left alone except for a tax collecting bureaucracy - it has little strategic value (as long as it doesn't harbor rebels) compared to the other places with Sartar dynasty fortifications. If Harvar did carry off lots of people into slavery, those would have ended up in Tarsh or Saird, probably on maize plantations. Or perhaps in the Grantlands, doing the foundational work for the earliest settlers there. Depopulating the city would have given the refugees from displaced clans or the dissidents moving away at least housing for the winter. The grain harvest would have been lost, but the transhumant herds may have been salvaged to a good extent. Even with the Yelmalio cult strong in Alda-chur, I don't think Harvar would have been able to manage an occupation force on his own even if the Lunars would have let him. I don't think so. Herongreen sits on the northernmost end of the Dinacoli tribal lands, with most of their clans further south. Blue Boar Fort wouldn't have seen any Far Point folk re-settling to the vicinity of Alda-chur. That's a very harsh tribute, but not quite slavery. And Harvar's followers included Yelmalians, but the majority of the Far Point folk were Orlanth worshipers. Sure, professional Yelmalio warriors would be more reliable as occupation forces than Orlanth worshipers, but do you really think that Euglyptus would have allowed a permanent presence of armed natives in his province? Demographics: across Germany, Bronze Age wives traveled back and fro several times from the Heuneburg region to the region beyond the Tollense. A prestigious lady, but "traded" across distances like between Caladraland and Sylila. Possibly across a language divide, as the Baltic Sea region would emerge as source for Germanic language migrations rather than Celtic. The very narrow nature of the valley may have created a distuption to travel times to the fields. Many people here on the forum will be familiar with the side valley at Bacharach (below castle Stahleck) and how long a walk through that part of the city up to the castle feels.