Joerg

Since I have made the death of Sarotar part of the "prequel" to my scenario Norinevra's homecoming, here are my thoughts about that period. 1539: Dragonewts' Dream I'd start with the grandparent's clan reaction to the dragonewt activity, then offer a chance to participate in the Opening of the Big Rubble. The first explorers of the Rubble will be able to bring back a heirloom or two. They might end up in the retinue of Sarotar. 1543: Sarotar's wooing of Arkilia, culminating with his death in 1546 In addition to gaining Esrolian as a language, getting an allegiance or a feud with one of the Esrolian houses is on the table. 1546-1555 or so: the assassination war with Nochet The brothers and cousins of Sarotar wage their campaign of revenge on the Queen, then Reverend Grandmother, of Nochet and her clan. 1548 (IMO): Tarkalor begins his war against the Kitori, Monrogh begins unifying the Old Sartar Elmali into what becomes Sun Dome County. IMO Tarkalor and his companions join the Night Jumper society of the Curtali clan. The Nightjumping magic may become instrumental in the Esrolian assassinations. 1550: Dwarf revenge, Saronil dies rescuing Minara. Possibly ties to Onelisin and her daughters. 1550: Dorasar sets off to start New Pavis. The construction of New Pavis with its Sartarite wall starts, but would last a few years unless Dorasar uses Flintnail dwarf magic. If so, the wall should be finished before Saronil dies. More chances for Big Rubble plunder/perishing. 1555: Jarolar's arrival gives Palashee a crushing victory over King Philigos, who died in the battle. Fame etc. to be had. Regardless of that, Palashee dies in a subsequent skirmish and duel with Phargentes. The Founding of Sun Dome County probably takes place well before 1569, but The Kitori War ends with the liberation of Whitewall to the Volsaxi, which may have come significantly after the liberation of Vanntar and relocation of the Elmali there. 1548 is a good date for that if you go for 1550 rather than 1575 for the founding of New Pavis. The enslaving of the Ergeshi and Monrogh becoming Count may both be tied to the capture of Whitewall from the Kitori. This may play out in Jarosar's reign. 1569 marks the year of Tarkalor ratifying the position and officially giving Monrogh independence from Sartar (which never had sovereignty over Vanntar anyway). Tarkalor's wooing of the FHQ is another longer build-up, with several possible events for people in Tarkalor's retinue, and also for people in Phargentes' retinue. On the Tarshite side, the wars of Phargentes also include slaying kings of Aggar and Elkoi, and even prior to the death of Philigos, there will have been activities of Phargentes as the first Provincial Overseer in Holay, and possibly some tie-ins to the Tarshite holdings in Sylila. Chances to gain connections to either the Tarsh royal house or to the Orindori family which is going to produce Fazzur. 1555 marks the loss of Philigos against Palashee and Jarolar, the victory of Phargentes over Palashee, and the re-dedication of the Reaching Moon Temple. The conquest of Sikithi Vale from the Grazers follows, IMO, not sure about the year. Furthest razed and rebuilt as Lunar city. After Phargentes' death as a result of his overextending himself wooing the FHQ, we get the reign of Moirades with the establishment of the Provincial university, influx of Lunars to Furthest. Reign of Terasarin: 1582: Liberation of the Far Place in the aftermath of Grizzly Peak. Founding of Alone. Last royal road-building/wall building campaigns. 1590: Terasarin fends off a major Lunar invasion. 1600: Moirades projects "a stray moonbeam" to blind/slay Terasarin. Opportunities for Tarshite background, too. Difficult ascension of Salinarg, formation of Household of Death by his children. (No parents or grandparents can join, but could be retainers.)

IMO later, although there will have been a road as early as there was regular trade to that city. There was no Swenstown during the EWF, and little to encourage that southern branch of the modern Pavis Road. After the Dragonkill, the EWF-era road will have fallen into complete disrepair, and the troll seal didn't encourage trade to that place, even though Sartar did visit the Thieves Town outside of the Rubble (now Badside), establishing at least some contact. The modern Pavis Road from Old Sartar was established under Dorasar and his Sartarite counterparts (Jarosar, Tarkalor), though not in the quality of a Royal Highway. The Alda-chur stretch may have been revived under Terasarin, also in connection with the establishment of Alone.

Of these roads, the Royal Sartar Road is the Gold Standard - a paved road atop a bed of gravel, except for the mountain pass between Boldhome and Jonstown wide enough for two wagons to pass one another, elevated above the surrounding land so that the water can run off. Better conditions than many a RW tarmac road... IMO the Hendriki road will be a gravel road - still dry, no mudholes, but lacking the dwarven masonry for the paving. Without the bureaucracy the Malkonwal part of Heortland enjoyed, mandatory road works are a lot less likely to procure paving. The Tarsh road west of Alda-chur is gravel at best, a broad swath of semi-clear land at worst, until it enters the Glowline. Royal Tarshite military roads are fairly high standard. The Pavis road is a secondary road, but probably has bridges to cross the smaller brooks until entering Prax, where it is more of a track. Most not so major rivers are bridged by the Royal Sartar Road, but the Creek at Dangerford still is forded, and I doubt that the pavement continues into the water - some gravel bedding may be applied every now and then, though. The Malkonwal Royal Highway continuing south to Durengard and Mt. Passant might be almost up to the Sartar standard. Beyond Mt. Passant, the road to Refuge probably is little better than the Hendriki road - still very good, but not quite that excellent. In Esrolia, the road between Nochet and Ezel probably is as good as the Sartar Royal Highway. The various roads out of Nochet are likely to be at least gravel, and the highway network from New Crystal City and Arkat's Hold to Porthomeka probably will have paving where the houses tasked with maintenance prosper, and gravel where prosperity has sagged. In the mesopotamia of south Esrolia, the roads are likely to be dam roads between irrigation channels, with some sheep grazing on the flanks - which may be the main difference to the irrigation dam roads in riverine Dara Happa. Next to the rivers there will be open ground for teams pullling river vessels upriver.

The piano is a percussive instrument by this definition, too, as is the dulcimer. Whoever can have harps can also have dulcimers, so I have little doubt these exist in Glorantha. Pianos only if dwarves play music, and IIRC the thread about what music styles which culture would hear said that dwarves would listen to industrial or maybe techno. Iron mostali will enjoy the sound of death metal even without music. Probably punctuated by blackpowder discharges. I have little doubt that somewhere there are trollkin trained to squeal at a certain pitch when tapped with a club, which would mean a percussion instrument, too. Modern use in the symphony orchestra or in the marching band needn't reflect their use in ancient times or earlier. Bells usually have a beater inside, and many chimes, especially those worn by dancers, do so, too, or are activated by dinging them one into another. You can also let a bell sing much like you can do with water glasses. Then there are cymbals (or their modern mechanised version used by drummers to add to their snare and normal drums. (My one trip as a musician in Glorantha was in a MGF system game hosted by MOB where I played a Brithini triangulist with an (unenchanted) iron triangle and the special ability of stage diving. IIRC this was set in Pavis.) I have recently seen a video (I think on neanderthals) which suggested that certain stalagtites in a cave with bone and tool finds might have served as tonal percussive instrument, a lithophone (analogous to the xylophone which uses wooden vibrating bodies) - apparently there was some ancient wear and tear on these. Rattle and bull-roarer are both associated with Storm. The concept of a percussion instrument still goes to Darkness, with the drum and probably other stuff you hit with rocks or clubs that go plonk. Drums can be quite tonal, too - I once heard someone play something like a tune on a bodhran, and timpani/kettledrums can even manage a glissando. Still, on the whole I think they produce dark booms rather than bright chimes.

We have at least one cult for that setting already: Indlas Somer.

Gouger was sent north by the vengeful earth (Kethaa?), and it is possible that Aram, the hero who slew it, followed it from the south. The Aramites are first established in Dragon Pass in the Silver Age, with Aram having won the Necklace of Kero Fin. The Harandings of the Dawn Age are a separate tribe from the Aramites, but there is a good possibility that they share the same roots. I tend to assume a kinship between the Harandings and the Entruli, too.

Dragon Pass: Land of Doom introduces a strangely named tribe called the Orvantes, which has the same name form as the three Summer Tribes of the Vingkotlings (Orgovaltes, Koroltes, Vestantes). I am inclined tth o see Orvantes as a mis-spelling or mis-pronunciation of Orgovaltes. I am not sure whether a Theyalan word stem and a Pelorian word stem like "or" necessarily have to share a meaning. Orlanth is the mountain storm, and I am sort of inclined to associate the "or" with mountain. But that's falling into the same trap as I warned of in the previous paragraph - the term "orogenesis" for "formation of mountains" certainly influences this identification. Doing Pelorian linguistics, I tend to think that Oria is really O-ria, with similar forms in e.g. Denegeria, Orogeria, Naveria - perhaps meaning "-land". If "or" stands for mountain (which is an aspect both of dragons and of giants), we also find it in the name of Orlanths sister Inora. (Gonn Orta probably is a "pun name" similar to good-on-ya, the current Kralori emperor, possibly "gone out of...", which is why I hesitate to make linguistic comparisons like G*n*rt or pointing out the "or" in Orta.) Yes, Orlanth established his kingship of the world by wedding the Earth Queen. I thought that percussive music was the realm of Darkness, with Hombobobom the Drummer (and shamaness) the first such musician. Such a darkness connection also exists for Shargash (whose drummers are part of his ceremonial warfare facing the advance of Oslira). If wind instruments are Storm/Air, and string instruments (derived from the bow?) Fire/Light, we have too elements without clear musical instruments. Earth instruments appear to include bells and chimes,both clay and metal, which I wouldn't quite include under percussion. and in case of chimes as dancing implements as much as as instruments. The music of water may be dripping, the rippling and burbling of animated water, the whooshing of waves.

That Sartarite prince is a prime candidate for one of the five returning Arkats of Ralios, not exactly sure which one, though. His help from Ralios certainly had a prequel where he earned that friendship, even if it isn't mentioned in King of Sartar.

There shall rise a durulz... Durulz-tossing? Or is this Arquack a wind lord?

Use of a skill to get the attacker into the blind side of the attackee. Harder to do if the attackee is warned by friends (who have to make a perception roll to notice that specific danger in the middle of their own battle), but still at a disadvantage. If a player character advances before his comrades, there will be flanks to be exploited. In case of doubt, sacrifice a wannabe-champion of the opposition and give the players advantageous shots on that poor sucker to teach them what will happen if they pull a Leroy Jenkins.

I don't have any evidence for it, but I always assumed the elurae to take the shape and characteristics of red foxes. Possibly because those are the main type of fox you would expect in Dragon Pass. There is this talking red fox stepping forth as a sort of ambassador of the Lady of the Wild in the King of Dragon Pass game demanding that your clan cease to cultivate more land in their tula. I don't think that that's an elura. There are two fox clans mentioned in King of Sartar, the Running Fox clan which produced Monrogh Lantern, and the Jenstali aka Red Fox clan whose king tricked King Ortossi of the Colymar (from the Karandoli clan) into an Other Side hunt from which he did not return. Sounds like a possible involvement of a fox trickster, doesn't it? One of the roles of a Trickster used to be to make a change in Gloranthan reality and myth permanent. Not saying that Monrogh was a trickster, but he did change the cult of the Elmali...

Basically that is because nobody has yet submitted a scenario where the fox-women (or swan maidens as per the Hiording clan history in KoS, or similar female-only followers of the Lady of the Wild) have played a major role. Their role in Kralorela quite likely suffers from this, too. But then the Guide has muliplied the available info on Kralorela by a factor of about five, and still only provides a bird's view level of detail. I don't think that the elurae are among the movers and shakers of the Hero Wars, but that doesn't mean that they cannot play a role in a few of these events. I think that befriending one of these creatures might open up hero paths into the wild myths of Dragon Pass beyond the stuff we have seen for Varanorlanth or the various "hunter heroes" named in King of Sartar. Playing around with the beast folk and natural spirits of Dragon Pass in a faerie Other Side way has been underused IMO. But beware the dragonewts who are at home in these, unless you follow the steps of the Hunting and Waltzing Bands.

Your go-to document to date would be "Men of the Sea" written for HeroQuest 1, which has a good list of books to read up. Quite a bit of extra material and inspirations were discussed in the various incarnations of the Glorantha Digest and its predecessors and successors. Gloranthan canon is naturally strongest in the Guide. Some references in "Men of the Sea" reference concepts which are no longer strictly canonical. Mythic Gloranthan sailing is mentioned quite a bit in Revealed Mythologies. The very interesting period of the Middle Sea Empire and its extraordinary vessels is revealed in the book of the Stafford Library by the same name, and History of the Heortling Peoples has some additional info on the Slontan vessels of the mid 800s and the Machine Wars. RuneQuest ship rules are worth a look in any incarnation of the game that has some.

I didn't mean to imply that they were non-canonical or even non-existant. They probably just fall out of focus from the "birds' eye" view shown in the Guide. Elurae and Tiger-walkers are just two magical species that are found both east and west of the Wastes. It isn't clear when or how they came across, but there are various mundane opportunities when there was some exchange between the Genertelan East and central and western Genertela, most recently the Seleric Empire. The Elurae are manifestly present before the Dragonkill, and probably way earlier than that, so they may have been part of the population of Genert's Garden in the Storm Age or earlier, too. Uncounted species and cultures disappeared as consequence of Earthfall, and other species besides the elurae may have been split into an eastern and a western population. Not a problem of the wind children, however.

There are astonishing amounts of detail for the God Learner period, presumably all from stories following some of Greg's heroes. I suspect that characters like Halwal or Avalor have at least story outlines or fragments similar in style to Aftal the Waertagi. I wonder when the Praxians developed from the Barbarian Horde or Jaldon, and what EWF stories remain untold. Drang (and presumably Isgangdrang) and Alakoring sound like some written drama, too. It is a pity that Greg's stories and story fragments get so limited distribution. They may not be publishable as stories, but whatever I have seen were excellent mood-setting pieces. Perhaps some future publications touching those topics could use them as such.

Greg told how he had that Arkat stories when he made White Bear and Red Moon, and that he changed the name to Argrath for that game. Writings on the Gloranthan West predate the publication of WBRM. Thus the list of the Ralian gods in the Guide shows a time before the Theyalan gods were realized. IIRC, the first story may have been of Snodal, in Loskalm.

Apart from the city of Xiaowei in Jaubon province, I couldn't find any mention in the Guide.

The Malkioni have a weekly "Worship Invisible God" service run by wizards. I suppose that works just like with priests wrt POW gain rolls - the officiating person handles a lot of magic, and that may increase their personal POW.

I intended it as part of the non-civilized, tribal culture prevalent in the foothills of central and western Genertela, and spreading out into river lowlands like Esrolia or Saird. A majority of these are Storm worshipping Orlanthi, but there are numerous other such groups. Theyalans is a collective term for those hill barbarians (another such term) around the lands of the Unity Council. One unifying aspect is their mode of personal initiation to a single deity or two while performing communal sacrifices to a big pantheon, unlike the Pelorian culture. The Yelmalians definitely fulfill this criterion.

In Fonrit, the "Earth King" could be a slave of Ompalam. The Guide lists him as a minor god, unlike Ernamola. Pamalt of the Jungle - what would be his characteristics? The humans of Maslo would know the same entity as the Embyli around them. The former lands of Somelz may have been re-structured away from Pamalt. IMO they are the same kind of descendants of the (limited number) Agitorani who chose drinking over childlessness as are the Doraddi of the Veldt or the Men-and-a-half of Prax. The main difference is that they held on to their urban culture when the southern Doraddi abandoned it along with their cities - possibly as a consequence of the Skyspill. No such catastrophe here up north. Banamba is what I call "Black Fonrit" - hardly any torabs here, let alone blues or Thinokans. The Pujaleg threat keeps them occupied. For the record: I do think that Garangordos and his siblings were the product of a Doraddi lineage, too. In the lush forest north of the Fense that distinction may have been lost over the many generations, however, and urban roles or necessities may have replaced that element of Doraddi culture to some extent even before the dictate of slavery overwrote it all. Apart from a few Masarin families, there are few if any forms of marriage, and I wonder whether the Fonritians have some kind of family structure or whether all children born into Kaddam slavery are separated from their mothers as soon as they are weaned, to be prepared for the toils of their future roles. Yad slaves might have a semblance of clan life, and Masarin children probably are reared by the harem as an organisation. Still, it is the Mother of the Family (head?) whose allegiance decides about tsanyano or bolgaddi stance. But overall, I cannot imagine a society more different from the Doraddi than the Fonritians.

You might have to replace Gondo Holst with some other major villain by now, too. I am not entirely certain what authorities from the Empire are involved in maintaining the Lunar presence in Elkoi. Is Appius Luxius involved just in his official persona, or does he have personal/family interest there? Does Tarshite royalty still run part of the shop? A few of the other secret identities may have been made public by now, too, and may be up for replacement by new teenage drama. 1622 will have seen serious troll movement towards Dagori Inkarth from the Elder Wilds, probably with memorable events in eastern Balazar. That's the same event as the Horde traveling from Guhan via Halikiv and Tarsh into Dagori Inkarth, and the Elder Wilds trolls may have been joined by Blue Moon trolls and possibly even Ignorants and Borklakelans. A certain degree of deforestation may remain to remind of this event. I would expect nothing new from Greatway or the Aldryami, and little new weirdness on the dragonewt front. The southern Votanki would have fled their usual hunting grounds in the Windstop and may have been decimated badly. Lunar officials who made it out of Sartar might have been re-assigned to Elkoi as a "Corflu-posting", but most prominent ones will have fed the Brown Dragon. Bands of Lunar symp Orlanthi no longer welcome in Sartar might flock to Elkoi or Trilus.

Culturally, they are Orlanthi or Theyalan, or Hill Barbarian (even lowland Saird qualifies as such). Much like the Caladralanders, the Rightarm Islanders and the Esvulari are in Kethaela, or the Jajalarings and Sylilans in southern Peloria. Palangio's original templars probably weren't Theyalan at all. The Tharkantus cultists who fought against and for the EWF most decidedly were of the broader Orlanthi (or perhaps better Ernaldan) culture. Yes, the Orlanthi are well known to be all harmonious, united, and peaceful among themselves - NOT. I have no idea whether that special choreography/liturgy between Light Sons and Wind Lords is common to all Yelmalions or whether this was introduced or heavily emphasized by Monrogh as a mark of their dissociation with their Orlanth-worshipping neighbors. Maybe my expectation of "phalanx" is too high - I am thinking of Marathon, the Sarissa-armed Macedon infantry of Alexander, or the Swiss Pikemen when I hear "phalanx warfare", with the Roman legions a special case with rather different armament. All of these are renowned for being able to maneuver in formation. Another parallel is the difference in quality and maneuverability between the Prussian-trained professional musket units in the Independence War of the USA vs. the musket-equipped militia bolstering their numbers. "Phalanx until tested" is an optimistic use of the word. They surely aren't Pelorian in culture, although they are aping Dara Happan culture. The Dara Happans will distance themselves from the Sun Domers much like the Hellenic world distanced themselves from the upstart Romans playing at adopting their civilization. Latest mention in this thread here: Could you please point me to the reference? Doing a word search of that pdf yielded two instances of "file" or "files", one describing the military formation of the Sun Dome Templars in Sun Dome County on p.35, the other as "rank and file" on p.64 describing the situation before the Battle of Night and Day. Reading the article on p.41, it almost reads like Tarkalor recruited Far Place Elmali to populate Vanntar. Given the language spoken in Vanntar (Heortling, not Tarshite, if I recall a previous debate against me correctly), I sort of doubt that was the case. The Dinacoli were part of the Jonstown confederation at that time, but the Aldachuri were either independent or part of Tarsh. Only Tarkalor's (at the time of this conflict yet unborn) son Terasarin brought them into the fold of Sartar. What reading do you suggest? Ideally something readily available e.g. in the Gutenberg archives or in university libraries. On parade ground, maybe. On a battlefield? Phalanx training would IMO require muscle memory overcoming the basic instinct to run awa from threatening warriors, and that requires a lot more than just parading for half an hour on Godsdays. Different values of "barely trained" at play, here. The peasant rubble fielded in medieval battles or skirmishes might be classified as completely untrained, then. One-handed spears like the ones e.g. used against Shaka Zulu's assegai-armed "legions"? Hoplites shipped overseas to defend colonial interests (e.g. on Sicily) went for both civic duty and for the plunder. Some of those who survived disastrous defeats may have become mercenaries out of necessity, others possibly out of desperation about their talent-less leaders. I am aware of occasional peltast phalanxes (for a certain meaning of Peltast), but other than that, I have only seen the term Phalanx associated with Hoplites or non-Greek equivalents thereof in Hellenic context prior to the Macedon Sarissa phalanx (more lightly armored, rural recruited, ... all the points you want to make about Yelmalian militia except the professionalism), or its rebirth in the Middle Ages as highly mobile Swiss pike-and-halberd formations, quickly adapted and a major component of the Spanish armies e.g. in the 80 years war in the Netherlands (the last 30 of which were shared with the 30 years war in the Germanies). I wouldn't calll the English dismounted knight formation at Agincourt a Phalanx. They were a spear hedge behind field fortifications (stakes in the ground etc.). Highly effective in holding the line, not trained to move and attack as a cohesive body - completly outclassed by the Athenian hoplite nobility at Marathon. The few US style wargames I have tested would classify most spear militia as "irregulars" rather than as serious spear formations. Just an opinion, right. The copious exports of Duck Point or the Lismelder Valley might be channeled that way rather than along the Royal Highway, and the occasional amphora of clearwine might, too. I am unaware of any trade goods coming out of Beast Valley except cattle herded by the Centaurs and Minotaurs in exchange for wine or similar luxuries - usually carried in by boat on the River - and maybe occasional hides or other stuff that might be hunted. Most of this trade would happen at or near Duck Point or New Crystal City. In the rare case that you would want to move trade goods that came to Duck Point from Esrolia or Tarsh to Whitewall, you would use the royal road 99 times out of 100. Using Sun Dome County for toll evasion would be a singularly stupid idea - a place full of Truth rune cultists with a healthy paranoia that smuggled goods might embolden their Ergeshi slave population. This region was my shared backyard when I played a family game using Hero Wars, coordinating world building and similar ideas with other campaigns located in the region (I had a Balmyr game, Alex Ferguson played a Kultain campaign, numerous other folk brought in their campaigns, Jeff Richard gave input from his Volsaxi campaign, a fairly good time was had by all). The Balmyr and Sambarri control over much of the trade and the unfortunate location of Halfort smack-dab in the middle of Kultain and Locaem lands in DP:LoT was quite the hot issue back then, one we tried to solve cooperatively. Sharing campaign resources like clan names, clan leaders' names, clan events etc. really was a handy resource for the various campaigns. Not quite on the level of detail provided in The Coming Storm, but nothing to scoff at. And I did take a closer look at the neighborhood when I wrote up possible routes for my "Norinevra's Homecoming" scenario, which has so far only been printed in German and which needs more work than I anticipated, especially on the Nochet part. All of which is meant to say that I did take a quite close look at how to move through this very region way before I objected here.

That difference doesn't impact their lives, or their own mythology, very deeply, does it? Apart from the land goddess, they brought their own gods with them, and kept them alive. The God Learners meddled, and might have tried to use the knowledge won in Fonrit and Jolar to plug some of the Pamalt Pantheon into their believes, but all of that experienced extreme and harsh backlash. The only nearby peoples with some connection to Pamalt are the black Fonritians. The Fonritian Veldang were aware of the Pamalt pantheon the way that the Heortlings are aware of Buserian, Antirius, Biselenslib etc. - associates of enemy gods that had been conquered. The Thinokans frankly didn't have any awareness of the Pamalt pantheon before the Garangordites inflicted their version of it on them. Outside of Banamba and the gap between Tarmo and Mari or the Vralos forest and the yellow elf jungle, there was no awareness of the Pamalt pantheon north of the dividing mountains. (Ok, there were the Men-and-a-Half in the ruins of Genert's Garden.) Internally, yes. To their subjects and their neighbors, little of that shines through. The Vadeli inheritance might be more apparent to the Blues. We're bound to disagree, here. For these myths to matter to the people, there have to be people interacting with these myths, and there is nothing to suggest that e.g. the meeting contest is even known north of the Fense mountains, let alone practiced. That's a non-sequitur. The people of Esrolia trace their ancestry to the grandmothers' betrayal of the Vingkotlings. There is no such event in the past of the immigrants to Umathela, Thinokos, Kimos or Maslo. Blue pre-Garangordite Fonrit had broken with the deities that were worshipped in the Gods War, and had reverted to a wretched existence which almost feels like a continuation of Greater Darkness survival until the arrival of the Banamban Garangordites. Banamba, or black Fonrit, was the only place with a Pamalt tradition anywhere near the coast, and Garangordos and his folk acted like Darkbringers to the Blues of Fonrit, also destroying the Thinokan culture which appears to have emerged a lot less traumatized from the Gods War than the Blues, with already Gray Age return to awareness and civilization. Fonrit was the place where Pamalt went to follow Vovisibor back to his homeland after having used the Necklace to defeat it on his own turf. That mainly refers to western Banamba and the river valley emptying into Koraru Bay. All the Doraddi-descended Agimori in that region (starting with the Exigers) are deviant from the Pamalt culture, by retaining the urban culture, by emphasizing a warlike culture, etc. etc. - they are seen as the victims of Bolongo by the majority of the Doraddi south of the Fense. That is of course a very negative way to describe their pre-Garangordite culture. I used to date the Garangordite take-over in Fonrit to around 500, but I have come to think that date is more likely to mark the completion of instituting the Garangordite travesty, and that the development of that travesty may have started with the Sunstop, at first finding resistance in Garangordos' homeland, later conquest of said homeland after neighboring lands had been converted by the expelled Garangordites. If you will, a bit of a parallel of the Hijrah/Hegira. (My conjecture, no sources to back this up.) Pre-Sunstop Banamba appears to have been a rather nice place of city states surrounded by not too unfriendly jungle, with free people following a variant of the Pamalt pantheon which supported city life etc. as used to be practiced in Tishamto. Whatever reason the southern Doraddi may have had for their abandoning the civilized, urban ways of Tishamto, those don't appear to have applied to the Agimori of this region. Yet, a massive turn to evil like that of Garangordos doesn't happen out of the blue, just because of the Sunstop. There must have been something to have stirred up problems in the region. And looking at modern Banamba, why not something related to the Pujaleg? The God Learners may have been just an intermezzo for their influence on the region. Yes - this rather small movement harkens back to the pre-Sunstop civilization, trying to reconstruct it from the infected memories carried over by the Gargangites. They may have imported Veldt Doraddi teachings to get there. But none of that really got into contact with the theist worshippers of Umathela or with the Masloi. The Malkioni may have had contact with this during the Middle Sea Empire overlordship in Fonrit, but they are the least likely to adopt any of that. On the whole, the Pamalt pantheon is as well known outside of Banamba and black Fonrit as the Lunar pantheon is in Safelster and Seshnela. There is a manifest living deity that does exert some influence, one from the land, the other one in the sky. but that's as far as the influence on myths and culture go in these places. As immigrants who entered about the same time as Umathela was first settled by humans since the Gods War. Kareeshtu lies beyond Thinokos, which means it did not have any Pamalt pantheon presence except as enemy of the old Artmali. Northern Fonrit (Kareeshtu and Afadjann, and the mountains south of these) used to be blue homelands. The earth of the entire coastal region was Aldryami controlled. The Vadeli. Artmali. Thinobutans and the Antigods carved out niches for themselves from that Aldryami presence east of Somelz (which had deleted any Pamalt links in its area of effect IMO). This makes Umathelan earth a blank slate, with only local spirits of broken ancestry remaining to be contacted. RQG reads like Seshna worship is back among the non-sorcerers (p.389) Most Pelorians don't initiate to a single deity. They still have rune priests casting the divine spells of the pantheon for them. Rokari Tanisor might be very similar, if operating from hiding rather than with official approval, and priesthood of Seshna and related deities teaching the spirit magic known by these folk which doesn't come through Daka Fal.. The Vadeli-controlled lands were lost to the uniformity of Somelz. I think that Pamalt is at best very weak, possibly effectively dead in the extent of Somelz. Maslo may be diffeent, but it would be the Aldryami interaction with Pamalt, not the Agimori one. (And yes, the Thinobutans are of Agimori racial type, but they aren't of Agitorani descent, but had their own Maker.) It is a continuation of the problem I have with the use of Baraku and Desero in Umathela. WIthout a culture preserving these deities, how did they enter the myths of the people who brought their own sets of mythic reality with them? And that in a place that was effectively a clean slate during much of the Gods War, Somelz. I have no idea when and how the Enkloso forest grew out into Somelz. Now, with the Somelz repair project (pulling the Jrustelan shard back into the position it swiveled out of), it is the clash of mythic realities between Enkloso Aldryami and Somelz Mostali, both sides aided by their own human lackeys. The Umathelan Aldryami wouldn't have much interest in involving Pamalt, and to the Slon Mostali Pamalt is just a directional power without much jurisdiction about their world repair plan. I withdraw my impression that the Lascerdans may have been a relation of the Pelmre: their description in the Guide makes this rather unlikely (p.621): Without the Pelmre origin, that's one less possible tie to the Pamalt pantheon. The Umathelan settlers had their own knowledge of the deeper earth, and despite the Earch Cube being shattered into at least four major shards (two of them being in the process of being re-united by the Mostali, undoing the damage Zzabur did to the Earth), their deep earth deities continued to work in both Jrustela and Umathela. Local land goddesses were contacted through the Seshnan or Kethaan/Ernaldan rites. The Umathelan God Learners don't seem to have had any inclinations to repeat the "success" of the Goddess Switch in their own domain. Their expectations of the Pamalt mythology when entering Jolar as the Six-legged Empire may have been colored by what they learned in Fonrit, without any idea how different the oasis culture was from the urban culture of Banamba. Actually, I have a number of ideas for merman campaigns which are very reliant on Earth and its goddesses. The Mostali are quite likely about to destroy an entire culture of aquatic and/or chthonic rift-dwellers on the flanks of the Pamaltelan and the Jrustelan shard that they are pulling together. These two immense vertical reefs will have been colonized by Sea entities unknown to surface dwellers, possibly colonized from the faces of the Earth cube shown to Sramak's River. These depths may even be less dim than expected, with glow from exposed lava or possibly even ashen brilliance of Biiiif (or whatever the Pamaltelan name for Veldara's father is) escaping up the rifts from the surrounding Hell Darkness. There is also the underworld section of the Southpath somewhere roughly in this region. Such a setting might be too alien to interact with, but it sure would be exotic and fairly unique.

Glorantha does have phalangites. Among the Orlanthi, the phalangites are the Sun Dome Templars, otherwise combat in the phalanx isn't suited to their magics. The Orlanthi may have different shock formations than a phalanx, e.g. the hogshead formation used in Germanic warfare to break an enemy shieldwall (the typical close-order formation that almost provides the advantages of a phalanx, except for forward momentum), or flying and leaping feats. Having the cake and eating it... We're talking city states here, with the rural backdrop firmly tied to the city. Vanntar is located in a rather broad valley in the hills of Dragon Pass, so: hillfolk. I was referring to the non-urban Yelmalions in rural Tarsh around Goldedge, who are hardly different from their Far Place cousins. You have temple lands, which include rural area and the urban part of the temple, and you have normal tribal lands around them. People living on temple lands may be organized along the same rules as shown in Sun County. People from the surrounding clans are clansmen first and Yelmalions second, meaning no file training except maybe during temple duty. A disorganized phalanx is a group of dead wannabe-soldiers waiting for the transition, unless their opposition is even more inept. Doing all that in close order - less than an arm's length from the man before you, only a few inch to the men left and right of you - with a long pole and possibly a slung shield, too, will require about as much training as those high precision marching band displays I occasionally see on youtube. Your average high-school marching band is the equivalent of militia. Sure those weren't rather shield walls or less organized formations like the Germanic hog's head? If I look at Daxdarius' hoplites, I see citizen soldiers turning into professionals, much like the Greek. These orderly regiments make up maybe 50% of the troops, with weird cultic groups using magical formations that don't make any sense in a mundane setting, fighting alongside beast brothers or spirits, changing shape, using exotic means of transportation or locomotion... and lots of tribal groups without even a semblance of uniform equipment or formation. Sure. The stuff getting slowed down in the lakes or the more stagnant parts of the Marsh (at least on the edges) offers an opportunity to harvest them, without having to send lumberjacks up into the hostile hills. By next Dark Season this will be well-aged firewood or charcoal. In normal years two or three weeks, yes. Those fields are usually left as pasture. No. I have given the situation for traffic from Karse, taking into account seasonal variations after you chided me for only presenting optimal conditions. With roundabouts every two miles or so, yes. Look, there is trade going into and out of Vanntar, and most of that will be across that stretch of comparatively clear land a quarter of a mile wide and full of tracks trying to avoid the mudholes that is a B road, and which is still better than going cross country. It may be possible to use light canoes for water transport, letting a single boater handle two mule loads. There is hardly any transit trade through Vanntar as there is no equivalent Holyhead at the end of that road, only a seasonally usable ford across the Stream which leads to the Royal Highway.

"It needs to be findable" - as if anything connected to the Trickster is going to listen to "need". It might listen to "want". Making the location fuzzy may actually make it more accessible. And if you think that a bound trickster will your clan more harmonious, boy have you been duped.