Ian Cooper

My concern here is that its pretty established that everyone gets some defense against magic. But I agree that perhaps it is a stretch on any rune that is not oriented towards spirits or spirit combat.

Yes it makes sense to me for magic to be able to effect spirits, even though they are not disembodied. I would count it as a stretch unless the magic was specifically oriented to this though (for example I seem to recall some proposal (not official) for RQ spirit combat that let the 4 points of enchantment for Bladesharp 4 affect the spirit but not the blade. Hence why I think this is a stretch penalty.

it's a good question, perhaps we should try to put something together.

IMO it's not quite like that. Individual Sartarites would have left their clans to go to Pavis. Some would have gone when Sartar fell but Pavis was free - those were likely those most unwilling to live under the Empire, or simply afraid of what it might mean. We might term these refugees. Some would just be looking for a new life, others to ferment rebellion from safety. Mostly whole clans would not have gone, unless they were mostly destroyed, and the scattered survivors fled to Pavis. In the pre-Starbrow's Rebellion period survivors of the Telmori annihilation of the Maboder may well be amongst these (we name them in The Coming Storm, not too hand as I write this). After Pavis fell then the refugees would have declined, but the number of exiles would have increased. Now, exiles from one tribe always need to go 'somewhere else' but are unlikely to find a welcome in other clans as these are kinship based societies, so usually would take service with a king, or join a mercenary company, or get a job in a city. Many of these exiles may only have been temporarily sent away, but need to 'cool their heels' until things settle down at home. Some of these will always have gone to Pavis - to avoid those seeking revenge on them, or believing that they can 'get rich quick.' But later the number will increase as rebels against the Empire have to flee, exiled to prevent retribution falling on their kin, often with a price on thier head. These could come from any clan. Those tribes that do collaborate may have many leave, simply because they cannot live with the Lunar sympathies of their kings, such as when the Balymr king collaborates. The destruction of the Dundealos will have produced many refugees, a large number of whom went to the Pol Joni, but other doubltess found their way to Pavis, ad a similar event the punishment of the Firebull clan of the Sambari may have created refugees. In summary, a Satarite exile could probably come from any clan or tribe, but no whole clan or tribe made the journey.

All Illumination is the experience of the All. Witnessing the All is likely to drive you insane if you are not prepared. Schools of Illumination prepare the initiate for the experience of the All and help them interpret it afterwards. The difference then between Nysaloran, Draconic, Lunar and other mystical traditions (such as the Larnstings) is the teachings they may give their novices prior to the initiation and the resulting intepretation of the event afterwards. For example a Nysaloran illuminate may join multiple cults, learn their secrets, and find insights from that shared perspective, but a draconic illuminate may re-intepret their existing cults myths as holding draconic mysteries that if studied allow them to develop draconic magic. So, both are experiences of the all. But they have different ways of preparing for and interpreting that experience.

Runequest established the idea of spirit combat, as well as bound spirits. Whilst in Heroquest we mention a bound spirit as a retainer, and have 'monsters' like ghosts there is no real discussion of how to handle spirit combat in Heroquest. Now, of course, we don't need special mechanics to handle resolution in Heroquest, but I have been thinking a little about how you might handle this aspect in Heroquest if you wanted to. Spirit combat must involve a disembodied spirit. Only a shaman, who can discorporate whilst his fetch inhabits his body, can use spirit combat as an 'attack'. Anyone can initiate spirit combat with a disembodied spirit. Disembodied spirits are found at spirit places. A PC uses their highest rated rune in spirit combat as thier ability. A defeat represents psychic damage and provides a penalty to using that rune. A victory represents a psychic boost that can be used when using that rune. A complete defeat represents possession by the spirit, who now inhabits the body, and the character is under GM control. A shaman could initiate spirit combat to exorcise the possessing spirit, thus freeing a possessed character and effectively returning them to the game. A complete victory allows the PC to 'bind' the spirit and it becomes a follower. The spirit 'dissappears' at the end of the episode unless the PC cements it by spending a hero point. A spirit must be bound into a magic god's blood crystal, if the PC has one, or an animal if a suitable one can be found. Use the normal follower rules for this bound spirit. A spirit bound into a crystal mainly helps with magical contests, the GM should use a credibility test to determine if it can help a PC outside the use of magic. I'm deliberately avoiding special rules. A key goal of Heroquest Core/Glorantha was to remove all of those. So these just identifies how you would use the core rules to model this. It's possible we might want to give some kind of 'specific ability bonus' to use of the Spirit Rune here. I'm not sure. Thoughts? @David Scott?

No. Remember, "no one can make you do anything." Marriage is undoubtedly consensual in Orlanthi society and divorce and individual's right. Although, whether consent was given to please parents etc.may be debatable, and often social pressure is the biggest obstacle to divorce (i.e. telling your parents that the marriage didn't work out).

Incest is always a taboo I believe (anthropolgically). There is magical power in breaking taboos, but it tends to invite chaos into the world (and thus be evil) unless you have specific rituals that allow you to negate those taboos (for example the Humakti can bypass taboos about killing kin, because they are ritually severed from kin - which we used as a concept in a scenarion I played many years ago, where a Humakti had to kill his 'no-good' brother). Given twins are said to be sacred to the Earth (in Tarsh at least, this could be a Shaker Temple thing or even Kodros Island) it is quite possible that the violation of the incest taboos by twins is considered ritually powerful (similar taboos were broken in Ancient Egypt by the Pharoahs). So it's possible

Indeed, in The Coming Storm, the Dolutha were once part of triaty of clans north of the Creek (the other two were wiped out and the Dolutha were pushed south of the Creek, by a series of unfortunate events)

Hi, We give quite a lot of information about how this works in The Coming Storm. Married women 'come from somewhere else,' (with the odd exception where a man from outside the clan marries a powerful woman inside the clan). They will tend to come from clans with which there is a strong tradition of friendship or at least alliance. So for the Red Cow they tend to come from other Cinsina clans: The Underwillow, Frithan, and Blueberry clans. Less come from the Dolutha who are rivals of the Red Cow. The advantage is that when these women join the clan they have an established network of 'sisters' to join who have already married into the Red Cow, providing practical and emotional support. As you suggest, this all serves to strenghthen bonds between these clans, as the women provide kinship ties that allow for dispute resolution or aid to occur at informal levels other than the ring. Of course there is rivalry here. Darna Longcoat for example, doesn't like the Blueberry 'incomers' taking eligible Red Cow men from her sisters in the older Underwillow and Frithan clans. There is some rivalry amongst women from the different 'maiden' clans to support each other for promotion and secure the best marriages for their kin (as the flow of goods - the price in cows - thus flows to their kin, keeping it 'in the family' so to speak). Most clans have porous borders with friendly neighbours and villages on the border can consist of people from two clans - so the Red Cow has some 'shared' villages with both the Dolutha and Blueberry. These locations give young people the opportunity for sex, as they can meet people outside the clan. We talk about these locations in The Coming Storm - and one features in a scenario in The Eleven Lights. This may be a source of the introduction for marriages, if the clans are friendly, but remember that love/lust are different to marriage which is an economic proposition - a woman provides labour and children and her family are compensated for her loss. If she divorces she will take a proportion of the earnings of the married couple with her. So marriages are more often arranged, and about the economics of a rural bronze age society instead of love. The clan negotiates marriages - it is one of its privilidges. Because you are not necessarily going to meet a marriage partner via liaisons with the neighbours, many clans have a 'matchmaker' who arranges suitable marriages between the young people of her clan and others. Likely she will be well travelled between the clans as she spends time talking with the women of other clans about the eligible youngsters in her own clan, and tries to find them a match. Faltika Far-Traveled is the matchmaker for the Red Cow (she is mentioned as a Bread Rebel). Ian

Good spot. Let's go with Christopher's suggestion of Harmony instead.

Lunar foraging parties certainly raided to supplement what they had.

The horse-collar is unlikely in a bronze age setting, it's much more likely that we have the yoke or a throat-girth harness. The former is for oxen, slow at 10 miles a day, and two oxen pulling a cart carry about 1000lbs the same as two pack mules. A throat girth-harness is inefficient and has a limit for two horses of about 1100lbs, about the same as two pack mules. After the horse-collar is invented a horse can pull about 2500lbs, which allows greater efficiency than a pack animal. In addition, you are still really restricted to roads (if you don't like fixing broken wagons), and low gradients, even when you do opt for a cart. Generally, the ox-cart was used by the farmer, who also used it for his plow team, to take goods to market. Otherwise in this era, you use pack animals, such as mules, for long-distance cargo if you couldn't go by water. Water was always the best choice, if you had it.

I'd say that the Darkness mythology of the gods is useful here, and most of the water deities continue, in some form, even if their free flowing movement is lessened. We know that both Engizi and Heler worshipers continue to have magic during Orlanth is Dead, so there gods are not 'dead' within the zone. A 'hard' GM might make it harder to use water magic based on fluidity and movement. 1) We know that the middle air is cloudless in the 'dead zone' so we don't get rainfall. We also know that it is cold. So, yes, many rivers freeze over. Probably there will be some water under the ice, but its thick enough so that you can skate on the surface. You can saw a hole in the ice to fish or pull up buckets of water. You are right that with no further rain/snow then the rivers would 'dry up' over time just leaving the ice, but I think that will take some time. Rivers tend to be fed from water in the rocks that builds up over years, not just surface run-off from rain or meltwater from snow. I'd think of a dry winter and how that affects water here on Earth, usually the effect of a dry winter becomes evident later in the year. Things are out-of-whack even after the Battle of Iceland. However, I don't believe that Skyfall stops at any point. This means that the River continues to get a fresh supply of water from the sky, and won't dry up. It may not even freeze in parts. It also means that the Skyfall storm will deliver rain/sleet to areas around Skyfall Lake. 2) Like any swamp the water will tend to freeze easily because it is not flowing so fast that ice cannot form easily. So I think that the Upland Marsh does freeze. However, the ice will be thin in many places, and not suitable to skate on, making travel hazardous. I suspect that there are zombies under the ice, ready to claw through the thin cover of frozen water 3) See above. I think the effect is gradual over the whole of 1622, and that some of the impact is felt out into 1623 as nature 'rebounds.' 4) If you need to melt snow or ice for water, then your issue is going to be the permafrost will have turned the trees to iron and made them hard to cut. Supplies of winter fuel will run low in late Storm Season and early Sea Season. You'll want to continually melt ice to get fresh water, whenever your fire is burning because you don't have the spare wood to do both separately. If you well freezes over your best bet is dropping buckets weighted with rocks down to smash the ice - but relying on a well and having that freeze over is more likely IMO to lead to a water shortage than living near a frozen river. PS One major way that the Empire gained converts in my playtest of The Eleven Lights was providing magical healing for cold injuries, or just hot soup.

From Revealed Mythologies: "Thella’s symbol is the White Moon that spreads gentle light and reveals the true path... Avanapdur’s symbol is the Black Moon that sheds unlight and leads astray. He is now the god of false dreams and nightmares."

I did have some notes on some ideas on this somewhere as I used it in our 'Star Trek*' game when the PCs visisted the East Isles. I believe that Revealed Mythologies was a big influence. * Given the Lunars were trying to reach the sea when they invaded Corflu and Karse we created a campaign where the first Lunar ship set forth to discover new lands, seek out moon magic, and boldly go where no Lunar has gone before. Gave a new meaning to redshirts amidst the crew...

If I wanted to do something really Howard or Leiber I would definitely do Safelster and Jeff and I have played games together there. Perhaps we could open the bidding with a Wyrm's Footnotes special or the like. Be good to gauge some interest. One model I have for western sorcerers is what would happen if Plato, Sophocles, Pythagoros etc. all taught magic to their students as part of their 'philosophy' teaching alongise logic, mathematics, epistimology etc. What if Marcus Aurelius's Meditations wasn't just about the rational philsophy of stoicism but a sorcerous grimoire too. Plato's stories of Altantis become tales of the Kingdom of Logic etc.

What am I looking at here: why it must be layout for The Eleven Lights (part of the heroquest, The Stealing of the Giant's Cows which is how the Red Cow birth the cows that give their clan its name). Don't forget you can pre-order The Coming Storm and get money of the print version.

One common question folks seem to ask About Heroquest is when and how often to use an extended contest. There is a lot of advice in Heroquest Glorantha, and I don't want to repeat that here. However one technique to use is just to remember that any extended contest is just a series of simple contests fought on a 'first to five' basis where you get points for the victory. That means that you can always choose to pick a simple contest, and then if that seems unsatifactory treat the results as points awarded in the first round of an extended contest, and go to extended. There are two smells here: the victory is somehow unsatisfying, this was pitched as the big confrontation and yet we just get a marginal defeat etc. or the victory turns out to be just the first task in a larger conflict and you are about to run back-to-back contests for another action. At that point, just switch over to extended. This demand based approach is very reminiscent of The Shadow of Yesterday by Clinton Nixon (now called The Solar System) itself a 'love letter' to Hero Wars. In that game the choice to switch from a simple to an extended contest was called 'bringing down the pain' in The Shadow of Yesterday and was an explicit player act. The player might invoke it because they lost, and wanted to fight for their victory as it was important to them, or because the victory was not satisfying enough. The move away from the AP mechanic of earlier editions allows Heroques to pull the 'bringing down the pain' trick and simply make an extended contest a 'player choice,' when the first simple contest is done. My experience is that it can take a while to get used to for players, but if you decide to make extended contests a 'player choice' as a result of 'bringing down the pain' the question of when to have an extended contest becomes easier. Of course this works better with experienced players who have moved on from the 'mini-games' of other systems detailed resolution mechanics as a default i.e. combat is always extended and actually pushed over to the other direction - why not just use a simple contest. I don't think this is really a house rule, more a technique based on the observation that the simple and extended contest mechanics are linked in this way. If anything it just adjusts the flow chart to be: it's a simple contest - do you want to bring down the pain. BTW, this is incompatible with pre-contest hero point spend, as the two are trying to achieve similar outcomes.

@Steve All good, his choices fit with the text

it's worth re-reading p.110 as the guidance there was taken from experience of folks trying to run missile combat. It's all about getting a statement of intent - what can those opposing missile combat credibly do: try to run away, try to hide under shields, or try to close the distance spring to mind (assuming one-sided). Their initial ability used in the contest will depend on the abilities used against those with missile combat, but in the case of closing I might switch up once I figured the ground had been closed i.e. those whose intent is to close make successes on enough rounds that I think they have covered the distance. At this point, you probably have people drawing swords so it is new contest new resistance.

In The Coming Storm some Orlanthi rebels hide out on an old crannog on the Still Lake along the Praxian border. This picture is not far off what that would look like.

Their status as a 'deep source' is such that they are a collection of Greg (and others) writings on Glorantha and of interest to deep scholars, but some parts may no longer be canon having been superceded by later writing. Something like Arcane Lore is very dubious, though fascinating for intent, whereas something like the History of the Heortling Peoples is much more accurate withe some errors. My take is that they are bit like Herodotus's Histories, particularly if presented as a Gloranthan document. Much is of interest, and some of it is tremendous scholarship, but parts may turn out to be lies under examination ;-)

That's a great example. Jonstown in Sartar Companion provides great links into the Cinsina area, as the Cinsina are one of the tribes of the Jonstown Confederation. In my house campaign the PCs often visited Jonstown, and this is reflected in some of the scenarios in The Coming Storm.

Another question, slighlty related is: what if I want to co-create a clan with my players, instead of using the Red Cow, but draw on the rich background here to place my clan in. The other clans of the Cinsina (i.e. not the Dolutha or Red Cow) here are intended to help here. The clans have a short decription and named NPCs but are intentionally left as a 'fruitful void' otherwise to allow GMs to stamp their own creativity on the tribe. In one playtest, we created the Greenhaft clan as a group, using the clan generator from S:KoH and played out their story. The only constraints we took into the clan generation process was the knowledge that Orngerin Thundercape and the other rebels had sought exile and the remainder of the clan's leadership was a Lunar client. That helped us build quite a different story around a clan whose leadership were collaborating with the Empire, and whose rebel leadership were 'in exile.' The material in the setting remained valuable, but was viewed from a slightly different angle, and the clan we created was co-authored. Making this possible was an explicit design goal for the setting.