Sir_Godspeed

From what I understand, a good deal of this is deliberately unspecified for the benefit of players, however, I've seen a few suggestions: - The King of the West is believed to be a Seshnelan, a further consquence of the unification of Seshnela/Ralios. - At some point, much of Fronela will be flooded due to a plot by the trolls of the Great Glacier, along with Kethaelan, Kerofinela, Maniria and Prax at least.

My Scandinavian tendency for understatements strikes again.

I was thinking that too, but I wasn't quite sure if Conan's notable skepticism towards magic was mostly a comic book thing, or whether it was present in the original stories as well. Nevertheless, a Gloranthaesque Sword&Sandals story will probably contain a lore more, and more casualized (in the sense that it's seen as a normal part of the world, not that it's easy necessarily) magic.

Crocodile Games has a 28mm range of tabletop wargaming miniatures both in a fantasy bronze age Egyptian and Greek mythology setting. Some of these might be Glorantha-friendly, afaik. https://www.crocodilegames.com

Would the Krashtkid digestive system create methane or other potentially dangerous gases, perhaps? I mean, they are Chaotic, they can be written to do whatever, I suppose, but it could be a narrative explanation for the gases, at least. The same goes for Uz, I guess.

Were Caladra and Aurelion already considered God Learner-created gods at this point?

Were tribes still around at the time of the zenith of the Darkness?

I absolutely love this perspective (it integrates the Fire element nicely, and adds complexity and, as you said, exotic and endemic differences). However, Alkoth is surrounded by marshlands, if I recall correctly - and the slash-and-burn agriculture aspect seems also covered by deities like Veskarthan (who may not be Lodril exactly, but at least is identified with a version of him).

The impression we get of Shargash from most of the available myths seem to be from a non-Alkothi viewpoint. Some seem to be from a more generic Pelorian/Dara Happan viewpoint (I'm leaning towards an "orthodox" noble Raibanthi or Yuthuppan perspective, but it might as well be a highly genericized Pelorian one, if such a thing exists), or a somewhat more distant Theyalan one (albeit under another name). He generally comes off as either a boisterous bully (Golden Age myths), or a raging, unstoppable, all-destroying bersker (Storm/Darkness Age myths). In either case, he is almost rage incarnate, and relies heavily on being restrained by the "innate justice"/authority of Yelm. We know from the Sourcebook that Shargash is explicitly associated with Tolat by the few scholars in Glorantha that understand such matters, and we know that Tolat is a much more nuanced deity, however, whether he appears in Pamaltela or coastal Genertela. Some people have suggested that Tolat's more amorous aspects have been separated to Shargash's son, the city/regional patron deity Alkor. I was just thinking about the difference between Greek views on Ares and the Roman views on Mars, and how that relation is quite interesting. There's a lot to go into there, of course, and I won't overanalyze stuff (neither were the sole war gods for their cultures of course, and they also have a separate origin - Mars started off as a Shepherd god, while Quirinius was the original Roman war deity, rendered quite obscure later on), but in short, they made me think of what seems to be a lack of an Alkothi perspective of their own founder deity, to whom their entire city is a temple. In short, the Greeks did not like Ares. They generally portrayed him as a boisterous, bullish brute, who was best appeased in peace time, and reluctantly released in war. Even Sparta, stereotypically the most militaristic of the Greek City states, would much, much rather worship Artemis and Apollo, Athena and many other deities before Ares. Ares was in many ways the personification of the forces of destruction, unrelenting, cruel, and horrible. Not someone you elevate to a major part of a state's cultic practices, but more like a WMD you break out when necessary. The Romans, on the contrary, seems to have delighted in Mars, dedicated plenty of things to him (temples, areas, months, days, etc.), and saw him as an ancestor (possibly in a metaphorical sense, I forget if Aeneas is supposed to have descended from him or not. I'm sure you will tell me). Mars started off as a shepherd god, a guardian of livestock from thieves, bandits and wild animals, and gradually become a general protector of boundaries (hence the name being etymologically related to "march", or border-land). As the Roman state expanded, bit by bit through war after ostensibly defensively-based war, Mars became a general war god. He was overall a good dude to have around. Now, I want to add here that I am not suggesting that the Alkothi view Shargash as the Romans did Mars. What I am rather saying is that I strongly suspect that they have a more nuanced and expanded view of not only Shargash's actions, functions, and qualities, but also his motivations. I have seen some fan-writings trying to expand on this (which I like), but I'm interested in hearing more here what people think. For one, I wonder how the Alkothi view the relation between Shargash and Yelm. Do they secretly hold him as high as Yelm, or do they play up the "filial piety" aspect of things, by emphasizing that the reason why Shargash destroyed the world after Yelm died was due to grief/rage, or possibly to prepare/purify the world for his father's return? Do they add other facets to Shargash beyond simply fighting itself? Is he a maker of citadels (he did make at least one giant magical wall), a judger of duels, a protector of his family, or a keeper of social order? Does he still dance and bang his drum as a spectacle beyond preparing for battle? Is he an agent of vengeance against the dishonorouble/injust/rebellious? In short - how does the ordinary people, as well as native nobles, that sleep, eat, defecate and love, marry and procreate inside of Alkoth's wall view their city's founding god? Or do they, as Sparta, simply not hold him to a special reverence above other, more immediately relevant deities like Oria, Alkoth or what have you, and the extreme emphasis on Shargash for the city is to some degree a foreign fixation?

Maybe there's a Beaver Spirit that makes this easier. Sounds very beaverish, at least.

Could be Eurmal. Could be Larnste. Could also be a Western Sorcerer (one of the Blue People) doing some pre-/proto-God Learner meddling (unlikely, but not impossible). Sounds a bit like a collective geas to me. Sounds like Alarya heroquested for lactose tolerance, which is pretty dang cool. Wait... Genert's people are Agi? I mean, I know the Men-and-a-Half supposedly migrated to Prax in the God Time, but I thought that was after they became Wastes. These Agimori aren't explicitly mentioned as being taller than average, so it would seem they are a different Pamaltelan people. And Tadans/the Oasis folk aren't described as being Agimori-looking anywhere I know of, so the conclusion I guess is that Genert had a lot of different groups/ethnicities living in his domain. Hm, some kind of proto-Odaylans of God Time Sylila, before they were subsumed into the wider Vingkotling/Heortling culture, perhaps?

The Indus Valley civilization appears to have had open sewage canals leading out of the city. This isn't quite a proper avenue for sneaking, but it does mean that someone putting some rock slabs above something like that and enclosing it from view is not entirely unfeasible, even as far back as early in Bronze Age times. Once you introduce the arch (which is well-documented in Glorantha), and upscale the cities to large metropolises, underground systems for sewage are even more feasible. On the face of it, they would be limited by the size of the city above - however, as many Gloranthan cities have been built, razed, and rebuilt above ruins, I don't think it's unreasonable for a town to have an oversized sewage (or even aquifer) system compared to its current population. There's also a possibility for other underground passages: Rome famously hosted the persecuted Christian minority in its myriad of catacombs, and Paris is similarly a swiss cheese underground, not only from catacombs, but also form centuries of mining and quarries. On the topic of aquifers (man-made or not), it's possible that there is a seasonal variation to these - when they're full during the rainy season, they can't be traversed, but when the dry season sets in, some tunnels might be passable for a person. Just a thought. Lastly, it's possible that some ancient walls or defense-works might have secret escape tunnels in them, that are only known to a few. Another alternative is of course straight up bribery. The Watch Captain needs something extra on the side to feed his apetite for fine crockery or whatever.

Is it possible that the Darjiini/Manimati are mostly demilitarized? They are the targets of the Alkothi We Hate Darjiini Usurpers Wars (in a form that vaguely resembles the Spartan-Helot relationship), and have supposedly been unable to claim any kind of independence since the Dara Happans stole the Broche of Manimat. Obviously there will be guards and soldiers in the area - but perhaps they might be prohibited from fielding full regiments of any kind? Beyond that, the term "Stork People" mostly makes me think of light skirmishers. This is purely speculative, of course.

I don't have much else to add to M Helsdon's comment, but I just thought I'd mention that The Illiad makes a big deal out of the number of hides that are stretched out over the wooden shield frame (I think I remember seven and more, but I haven't read it since middle school, so I might be off, and I don't know whether it's historically accurate or just exaggeration for narrative purposes), and mention them being covered with what seems to be a bronze "finish", as it were.

I wonder if we'll get to see the I Fought We Won and the Lightbringer/Lifebringer Quest from the perspective of the Riders/Berenethelli. That must be a maze of references to navigate for the writers.

No worries. It does make sense, if Oria is the goddess of the physical fertile Earth (which is frozen), whereas Nyalda, like Ernalda, is more a goddess of the metaphysical/extended boons of fertility. So not just the literal earth, but animal and human fertility, happy marriages, group cohesion, etc.

Interesting. I guess she is only seen as the particular Land Goddess of central Peloria, and not the goddess of the Fertile Earth in itsef, then? This makes me wonder about the modern situation in Peloria: Oria is the Land Goddess (sort of the local equivalent of Esrola) and so Dendara is the local equivalent of Ernalda... but she is also associated with Sky(?), and Air through Entekos? Untangling those Pelorian goddesses is always a mess.

Of course the libraries already have a standard system catalogueing! The problem is that they all have *their own* standards of catalogueing, and if someone tries to impose a *foreign* system, the Temple's guardian spirits will make their ink run dry and vellum crack and lower back ache indefinitely.

No worries, I could probably have worded it more clearly.

Just to clarify - I did not say the group did not have warriors. I was just describing what I thought such a splinter-group looking to form a new clan would probably look like: demographically varied, reflecting more or less the same proportions of society overall, with dedicated warriors in a minority. In other words: it wouldn't be an army. It would obviously have warriors - inasmuch as every Orlanthi group containing adults, and containing even a modicum of a political leadership has warriors by the very nature of Orlanthi clan structure.

The idea of multiple differentiated units being part of a undifferentiated whole should not really be too hard to imagine to someone grown up in the mostly Christian West: The Son is God, the Father is God, the Spirit is God: but the Son is not the Father, is not the Spirit. In other words, Ernalda is The Goddess, Seshna is The Goddess, Asrelia is The Goddess, Maran Gor is The Goddes: but Ernalda is not Maran Gor, is not Seshna, etc.* Or, put into some phenomenological form: my left arm is me. My right arm is me. But my right arm is not my left arm. The question "thea-sophists" of the Theyalan Earth Tradition are going to disagree vehemently on, probably, is what exactly the deeper nature of the The Goddess is, and what the limits of The Goddess is. This is an area very fertile for some great plot lines, where players are probably free to declare this or that as incorrect or correct. As you mentioned, I'd imagine plenty of orthodox Earth Priestesses would find "pseudo-pantheistic" argument heretical and self-evidently wrong. Others might bob their head from side to side and admit that there are deeper truths into the identity and workings of The Goddess, and us mortals can only ever spy a little of Her. Some might take this further. Who knows. (*The Voria-Ernalda-Asrelia trinity is already pretty obvious, and might even be considered a trinity-within-a-pantheity, or more simply put, comparable to the differentiation of the fingers on a hand versus the differentiation of all limbs to a body. Still separate, but more closely linked.)

Somewhat more prosaically, isn't this just the Heortlings dismissing something that doesn't really make sense to them, and which ended in disaster, as the work of their usual scapegoat?

A lot of Gloranthan cosmologies appear to be based on magnitudes of transcendence/emanation/degradation (pick your preferred term). The Malkioni are very explicit about this, of course, but Earth with its age-progression view of the Goddess might also tap into this kind of perspective to a degree. The Land Goddesses are local instance of THE Land Goddess. Ernalda is a particular "refraction" of Gata, and so forth. In that sense, the idea that Ernalda is some kind of higher deity, indeed Glorantha herself, or Arachne Solara does not really have to be so much a manipulation, as it is a logical conclusion drawn from the already underlying logic of their worldview.

On the topic of the whole Moon business, keep in mind that some DH texts refer to the White Moon as the "sun" of Mernita (or is that only in Six Ages?). The whole deal with planets, suns and moons is a tad fluid in Pelorian myths, imho, perhaps as much based on mytho-political competition as observation of celestial movement (or rather, they probably go hand-in-hand somehow).

Welp, this was utterly nightmarish to read. I didn't that was a thing that could happen. (Pretty cool though).