OpenBRP Project

[Raleel]

13 hours ago, Crel said:

that core rulebook has been a slog for me to read cover-to-cover.

You know, as much as I like Mythras, I understand this comment. It is a very dense book for content, and can be very hard to take in. I swear to you, it took me quite a long time to really have it all ingested. 

[Raleel]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

This is drifting far off from the original "OpenBRP" project.

The more you make subsystems for a 40 year old game systems, the more likely you are to run into someone who had the same gripes and ideas and did it up to their preference  

[g33k]

38 minutes ago, Raleel said:

The more you make subsystems for a 40 year old game systems, the more likely you are to run into someone who had the same gripes and ideas and did it up to their preference  

Yeah.  I mean, I think there are innovations to be had, still; but sure -- the options are pretty well explored these days!

But my point is that any elaboration on the very-core  "roll-low / d100 skill / crit-or-fumble as portion of hit-or-miss"  rule is really exactly that -- an elaboration on the core.  As such, it probably isn't a core element that should be included by default; it's something for an "OpenBRP Companion" or "Advanced O-BRP" document.

(Edit:    also... the more you end up with a product that looks like Mythras Imperative, the more I think you should  just use Mythras Imperative! (including using that as the foundation for further building, if so inclined))

Edited April 11, 2020 by g33k
Mythras Imperative

[Austin]

11 hours ago, Raleel said:

You know, as much as I like Mythras, I understand this comment. It is a very dense book for content, and can be very hard to take in. I swear to you, it took me quite a long time to really have it all ingested. 

Which is frustrating for me, because the main way I learn a new game is typically to read the core book cover-to-cover. One of these days I'll get through it, so that I can manage to talk my friends into playtesting it a bit. A lot of the Thennla content seems like an interesting twist on RQ(G)'s themes.

[Austin]

22 hours ago, colinabrett said:

I'd be interested in joining in with this project, if you have room for a new collaborator.

I'm happy to have more people involved. As I noted in the OP, while this idea happened to pop into my own head I'm not necessarily the best person to manage/organize it. As with most things, I suspect the general process shall be "let us muddle it out together."

[Austin]

On Stunts:

I like the ideas being tossed around regarding a stunts/feats-like subsystem. I think that they could work with the vague "OpenBRP-ness" which floats somewhere adjacent to my coherent thoughts. In particular, I like the notion of them as an effect connected with Special skill successes, because that means that any character can, potentially, attain access to them. As @Jakob commented, I agree that one of the major draws to BRP is that anyone can, with time and practice, do anything. While I don't personally share the same reservations about how feats can lock away particular abilities in other systems—like Lloyd, I enjoy how they add an additional layer of "specialness" or customization—I don't think a stunt subsystem with an "unlock" framing matches the style of BRP.

Above all else, I think that if some sort of stunt system is used in OpenBRP, it should be in such a way that it can been used in all OpenBRP genre/theme packs.

This emphasizes the sort of mechanical unity which, for example, D&D's 3.5 third-party content had, and which some D100 content does not. I'm saying this from the perspective as a GM that tries porting other content into his RQ game and ultimately hand-waves a lot of stuff, rather than actually playing it by its rules. I don't think that the D100 family has as much overlap as is often claimed. In comparison, pretty much anything written under the Pathfinder/3.5 OGL, in my experience, could be played with other core rules using that SRD.

Now, I do think that a skill-based stunt subsystem is viable in any genre; at least, I can't think of one where it wouldn't fit. But if OpenBRP is to include stunts, I think it should be a consistent variation on the core BRP OGL, which each OpenBRP pack supports.

[Raleel]

34 minutes ago, Crel said:

Which is frustrating for me, because the main way I learn a new game is typically to read the core book cover-to-cover. One of these days I'll get through it, so that I can manage to talk my friends into playtesting it a bit. A lot of the Thennla content seems like an interesting twist on RQ(G)'s themes.

It is very much like a chessecake - delicious, one of the top choices, but also hard to sit down and eat a whole one (despite what my wife will tell me).

[Austin]

I managed to steal a few hours from my JC stuff after all. Here's a sample outline of what's in my head for OpenBRP: Fantasy. It's very, very rough, in my opinion, but I hope it gives an idea what I think would be a useful community product.

OBRP Fantasy outline.pdf

[Lloyd Dupont]

On 4/11/2020 at 8:21 PM, prinz.slasar said:

Feats and Stunts for D100 are fine:

MYTHRAS has at least 3 different Feats/Stunts Systems: Combat Style Traits (CRB), Gifts  (CRB) and Traits (Luther Arkwright, other supplements like Worlds United call them Gifts)
Furthermore, CLASSIC FANTASY is full of the DnD feats for each class.

In summary: Feats and Stunts are natural for Mythras and they belong to its core.



 

While I agree in principle...

I found Mythras Combat Styles traits to be too mild, Gifts to be both to hard to attain and too powerful and traits, IIRC are innate and can not really be learned after character creation, can they?! Though they do give individual flavor to your character...

I like Blood Tide stunt better..
(Mysticism talents would be good Allegiance based stunts though )
Except there is no clear limit on how many you can learn...

Edited April 13, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Prinz Slasar]

10 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

While I agree in principle...

I found Mythras Combat Styles traits to be too mild, Gifts to be both to hard to attain and too powerful and traits, IIRC are innate and can not really be learned after character creation, can they?! Though they do give individual flavor to your character...

I like Blood Tide stunt better..
(Mysticism talents would be good Allegiance based stunts though )
Except there is no clear limit on how many you can learn...

Okay, this is legitime point of view.
Since you have abandoned Mythras (according your postings on BRP Central) this is a opinion not to be considered indepth.
If you want to discuss I'm glad that you are opening a thread on the Mythras subforum.

Edited April 13, 2020 by prinz.slasar

[Lloyd Dupont]

Mm... I don't claim my opinion to be more than a matter of taste!  
I don't think there is a logical argument to be had.. it's just that ultimately there is a different underlying fantasy in the GM and players mind!  

Looking at different system I found system that pleased me more.. and I wanted to point out how those BRP stunts system (most typically the well known Blood Tide one) feels different to Mythras combat style and gifts!  

But your point that stunt is an integral part of many system.. well.. agreed and like!  

Edited April 13, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Prinz Slasar]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

But your point that stunt is an integral part of many system.. well.. agreed and like!  

My point is that the feats/stunts-system is a substantial element of Mythras.
No words about other RPGs.

[Lloyd Dupont]

6 minutes ago, prinz.slasar said:

My point is that the feats/stunts-system is a substantial element of Mythras.
No words about other RPGs.

Mmm... When one come to be particular about precise wording... one is lead to wonder.. is there a problem I am failing to see?! 😮  Are we in some sort of disagreement?
I have a feeling I am missing some implied statement here.. 😮 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Prinz Slasar]

12 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I have a feeling I am missing some implied statement here.. 😮 

I've just corrected that my point is only regarding Mythras, not about "many systems".
I don't know about them, to be honest.

Edited April 13, 2020 by prinz.slasar

[Al.]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:05 PM, Jakob said:

I'm totally fine with that; what I really dislike, however, is things like: "You may be a competent warrior, but you can't even try to disarm someone, because there's a special Feat for that, and you don't have it."

 

EDIT: However, this actually brings us pretty close to how Mythras does it anyway, where you get to choose special effects on higher succes levels than your opponent and also a self-designed special feature for each combat style you learn.

My fave is the way that PenDragon Pass deals with it:

FEATS

You can attempt a Feat with any combat skill or physical statistic, except Riding, by rolling under half the skill or statistic's value. Success = critical hit; double damage or game effect and possible added Status. Failure = fumble, with automatic Knockdown in addition to other fumble effects. Always name and describe the Feat you are about to enact.

Anyone can try.

It's incredibly flexible (I'm not limited to the list of feats that someone else has written*)

It's high risk but high potentially reward.

(It allows me to use my beloved double feint from older versions of PenDragon in all but name).

My only reservation is that the choice is made before the dice are rolled.

 

*which is my only real grizzle with Mythras Combat Effects. The idea is very clever. Picking the result after having seen the die result appeals to me more but looking through a big long list slows things down and the big long list constrains imagination at the table and these two are in conflict; longer list more possibilities but longer list more dead time.

[Lloyd Dupont]

But... what about the riding skill?! 😮 

[Prinz Slasar]

46 minutes ago, Al. said:

The idea is very clever. Picking the result after having seen the die result

It's not only "after the die result". Some SEs have a tactical component regarding specific combat situations: e.g. to withdraw, to regain Footing, altering Reach, dealing with Overcrowdings etc.

46 minutes ago, Al. said:

but looking through a big long list slows things down

The list ist not very long, because the SEs are separated by Weapon traits, Combat situations, Unarmed, Ranged either it is a Parry or an Attack. It's not that you have to choose a SE from the complete list.

Furthermore, the SE are very straightforward, because your Weapon allows you always the same SEs, you are fighting with always the same combat tactics and since the list of useful SEs are limited and always the same for the decades of Mythra's gaming, after a couple of combats and using the same SEs over and over again, you know them.

To be honest, in most of the cases only 1 or maybe 2 SEs are useful or can even get picked. It's always the case that 98% of the complete SE list cannot be picked, because the situations are specific and disallow nearly all SEs but 1 or 2.
It's not about the 98% SEs you cannot pick but the 1 or maybe 2 you can pick. And what you are able to choose is straightforward and self-explaining out of the given combat situation. (see my examples above)
 

46 minutes ago, Al. said:

nd the big long list constrains imagination at the table and these two are in conflict;

The list of SEs are not constraining imagination because you can make maneuvers if you have the upper hand / the advantage / the momentum. What maneuver you want to make is mostly very clear. And then you pick the apropriate SE.
The SEs don't limit your imagination or possibilities in terms of apropriate creativity. Many possibilities are prohibited, yes. But these are because of reasons which are quite logical: weapon, combat situation, is it a parry or attack?, etc.

Yes, you have to invest time and effort into this SEs. You have to read 'em, you have to look up what apropriate tactics your combat style and weapons would be fun (or possible).
I would rather read and think about the SEs of Mythras than investing time and create a new combat system or my own houserules.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by prinz.slasar

[Al.]

38 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

But... what about the riding skill?! 😮 

I don't understand that either. But as with most things in life I don't understand* I just ignore it.

 

*honestly; 26 dimensions wtf?** I understand the first 5 and assume that the rest are nonsense

** what's that for?

[Al.]

34 minutes ago, prinz.slasar said:

It's not only "after the die result". Some SEs have a tactical component regarding specific combat situations: e.g. to withdraw, to regain Footing, altering Reach, dealing with Overcrowdings etc.

Furthermore, the SE are very straightforward, because your Weapon allows you always the same SEs, you are fighting with always the same combat tactics and since the list of useful SEs are limited and always the same for the decades of Mythra's gaming, after a couple of combats and using the same SEs over and over again, you know them.

To be honest, in most of the cases only 1 or maybe 2 SEs are useful or can even get picked. It's always the case that 98% of the complete SE list cannot be picked, because the situations are specific and disallow nearly all SEs but 1 or 2.
It's not about the 98% SEs you cannot pick but the 1 or maybe 2 you can pick. And what you are able to choose is straightforward and self-explaining out of the given combat situation. (see my examples above)
 

The list of SEs are not constraining imagination because you can make maneuvers if you have the upper hand / the advantage / the momentum. What maneuver you want to make is mostly very clear. And then you pick the apropriate SE.
The SEs don't limit your imagination or possibilities in terms of apropriate creativity. Many possibilities are prohibited, yes. But these are because of reason which are quite logical: weapon, combat situation, is it a parry or doge?, etc.

Yes, you have to invest time and effort into this SEs. You have to read 'em, you have to look up what apropriate tactics your combat style and weapons would be fun (or possible).
I would rather read and think about the SEs of Mythras than investing time and create a new combat system or my own houserules.

 

Thanks for clarifying

The list ist not very long, because the SEs are separated by Weapon traits, Combat situations, Unarmed, Ranged either it is a Parry or an Attack. It's not that you have to choose a SE from the complete list.

You and I may have different ideas of long lists
 

The list of SEs are not constraining imagination because you can make maneuvers if you have the upper hand / the advantage / the momentum. What maneuver you want to make is mostly very clear. And then you pick the apropriate SE.

The SEs don't limit your imagination or possibilities in terms of apropriate creativity. Many possibilities are prohibited, yes. But these are because of reason which are quite logical: weapon, combat situation, is it a parry or doge?, etc.

And quite possibly use of imagination

Yes, you have to invest time and effort into this SEs. You have to read 'em, you have to look up what apropriate tactics your combat style and weapons would be fun (or possible).
I would rather read and think about the SEs of Mythras than investing time and create a new combat system or my own houserules.

I have no doubt that you are right and that practice makes easier.

You have found a published set of rules which suit you down to the ground, there's no real value for you in looking at alternatives to those.

[Lloyd Dupont]

On 4/11/2020 at 4:43 PM, Jakob said:

I don't want to deter you, but I must confess that the lack of Stunts/Feats is one of the main features of BRP for me. I like the idea that everyone can try pretty much anything

Hi Jakob, this was at the back of my mind for the last few days.. so i felt I must replied, even though much later...

Everybody got their own fantasy so I can't really argue what you want.... But I am going to argue that the most desired trait here by many GM/players is not that all characters are able to do anything, but that most characters can learn (and maybe try and likely fail) anything...

A very obvious example are spells. Everybody can learn spells, sweet (yea yea in the rule they say you "must be"  a Wizard or have POW 16, but who cares, hey?) , but the crux is.. not everybody got the spells... (even though they are there for the learning)

Think of stunt as new Power section, section 5, Stunts!  
 

It has been tried many times before!!
- Legend/RQ6: Heroic Ability
- Mythras: Weapon Combat Effect (mild and not really unique to your character), Gift (powerful, hard to acquire and kind of magical)
- Blood Tide (BRP): Stunt
- Revolution D100: Stunts (the whole system works on it)
 

I just wrote my version... most inspired by both Blood Tide and Revolution D100..

Edited April 15, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Mankcam]

I ran a 1930s Pulp Action BRP game (before Astounding Adventures or Pulp Cthulhu were published), and I created a pretty simple yet effective Pulp Talents system. A few months later, Blood Tide was published and it was so close to what I was doing that I just transposed it over. In many ways, that's all I need for Stunts, and although they were for a Pirate setting, most of them fitted a Pulp Adventure setting as well.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Mankcam

[hix]

Rewritten rules for using Strike Ranks. This should be distinct from the BGB's wording.

Strike Ranks
Combat rounds are divided up into strike ranks, counted up from 1 to 10. Ties are simultaneous. If your total rank for an action is over 10, you can’t act. At the top  of a round of combat, the GM calls out Strike Rank 1, counting upwards. Characters act on their associated rank. To get the total strike rank for an action, add the character’s Dex Rank plus the weapon’s strike rank to the current Strike Rank.

DEX Rank

Compare your character’s Dex to the table below. The number listed is your Dex Rank.

Example: Bob has Dex rank 2 is punching a mook. Fist attacks are SR3, so Bob’s first attack launches on Strike Rank 5, and again on Strike Rank  10.

DEX	Dex Rank
1-9	4
10-15	3
16-19	2
20+	1

Multiple Actions
Characters can act repeatedly, as long as their total rank is less than 11. Combining movement, attacks, powers, and item use is as simple as adding up the ranks  and counting to 10.
 

Defense
You can Dodge or Parry unlimited times without using Strike Ranks, but you can only parry once per Rank.

Powers

Powers are activated on the Strike Rank equal  to the number of Power Points being spent on the effect.

Movement
Base movement is 3m per strike rank, rounded up. The GM may divide up the movement or resolve an associated action with it as he sees it.

Surprise

Base surprise costs 3 ranks to overcome, adjusted by the GM up to a full combat round.

Preparing a Weapon

Switching to a holstered or shouldered weapon costs 3 Strike Ranks, as does pulling an item or grenade out of a belt. If the item is in a backpack, it takes 6 ranks.
 

First Aid

Performing First Aid requires concentration and time. Use requires a full uninterrupted combat round, 10 ranks.

Aim/Rush

Take more time or hurry an action. Each strike rank delayed adds 10% to the hit chance. Each strike rank hurried subtracts 10%, maximum 20% adjustment.

Edited April 15, 2020 by hix

[Prinz Slasar]

13 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

- Mythras: Weapon Combat Effect (mild and not really unique to your character), Gift (powerful, hard to acquire and kind of magical)
 

This list is incomplete.
Mythras has: (Character) Traits, Gifts, Combat Style Traits, Combat Special Effects, Weapon Traits, Class Abilities/Class Talents (Classic Fantasy)

Edited April 15, 2020 by prinz.slasar

[rsanford]

I think Chris Tooley converted D&D 3.5 traits to BRP or Magic World several years back. Y'all might want to ping him and see if he uploaded it.

[Lloyd Dupont]

...

Edited April 15, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont