Shaman

[allenowen]

Can anyone, regardless of cult, become a shaman? I know some cults, like Daka Fal and Waha,  have shaman in place of priests. But can an initiate of Orlanth become a shaman? There's nothing of what I've read in the Shaman chapter that says otherwise.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, allenowen said:

Can anyone, regardless of cult, become a shaman? I know some cults, like Daka Fal and Waha,  have shaman in place of priests. But can an initiate of Orlanth become a shaman? There's nothing of what I've read in the Shaman chapter that says otherwise.

No, there are cults that prohibit shaman (or at least prohibit some level such as Rune Priest or Rune Lord from being shaman).  Most of that will be spelled out in the full cult writeups though that will be coming in the Gods of Glorantha work.

[allenowen]

Which I am looking forward to getting..

[Kloster]

9 hours ago, allenowen said:

Can anyone, regardless of cult, become a shaman? I know some cults, like Daka Fal and Waha,  have shaman in place of priests. But can an initiate of Orlanth become a shaman? There's nothing of what I've read in the Shaman chapter that says otherwise.

I was asking myself the same question, and I have reread the rules especially for this. The answer, for me, is that nothing in the rules forbids it, contrary to RQ3, where rune levels were explicitly forbidden to be shaman except where explicitly authorized (or even required). I think this is a good point that the rules don't prohibit it.

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

No, there are cults that prohibit shaman (or at least prohibit some level such as Rune Priest or Rune Lord from being shaman).  Most of that will be spelled out in the full cult writeups though that will be coming in the Gods of Glorantha work.

Of course. The rules should not forbid it, but the world has to give guidelines and rules, absolute or relative. It is logical that most cults restrict the activities of their members, especially the high ranking officials as rune priests and rune lords. This makes the cult book mandatory to know the details.

8 hours ago, allenowen said:

Which I am looking forward to getting..

Same for me.

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

I was asking myself the same question, and I have reread the rules especially for this. The answer, for me, is that nothing in the rules forbids it, contrary to RQ3, where rune levels were explicitly forbidden to be shaman except where explicitly authorized (or even required). I think this is a good point that the rules don't prohibit it.

Cult prohibitions shouldn't be rules prohibitions in a setting where all kinds of illumination are pursued by the protagonists and their allies and opponents. Becoming one of the Warlocks of the Sartar Magical Union may lead individuals from cults normally forbidden to go the shamanistic way into doing just that.

[soltakss]

In theory, anyone can become a Shaman, if you have POW.

If you belong to certain cults, you are forbidden to become a Shaman. presumably, becoming a Shaman means you get thrown out of the Cult.

 

[Kloster]

38 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Cult prohibitions shouldn't be rules prohibitions in a setting where all kinds of illumination are pursued by the protagonists and their allies and opponents. Becoming one of the Warlocks of the Sartar Magical Union may lead individuals from cults normally forbidden to go the shamanistic way into doing just that.

Agreed.

30 minutes ago, soltakss said:

In theory, anyone can become a Shaman, if you have POW.

If you belong to certain cults, you are forbidden to become a Shaman. presumably, becoming a Shaman means you get thrown out of the Cult.

 

Also agreed.

[allenowen]

So if the rules or the cult write ups we currently have don't prohibit it, then yes, anyone can become a shaman. It's kind of implied in the Vasana's Saga stuff, since I believe she learns some shamanic techniques. 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, allenowen said:

So if the rules or the cult write ups we currently have don't prohibit it, then yes, anyone can become a shaman.

But keep in mind the following notes:

p.275: In many cults, initiates may not become shamans or sorcerers. [So may not be currently, explicitly prohibited, but you can gauge some of the restrictions.]

p.287: Priests must spend 9/10 of their time at the temple, or on temple business.... Many cults impose additional duties and restrictions on their priests. [Even if not explicitly prohibited, the time commitment as a priest may exclude entirely.]

Overall, the gods are jealous and want worship for themselves, not given away to other petty and rebellious spirits.

[allenowen]

Presumably more guidance on this will be in Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, allenowen said:

So if the rules or the cult write ups we currently have don't prohibit it, then yes, anyone can become a shaman.

Anyone can become a shaman. There may be consequences of doing so, for example you might be kicked out of a cult for becoming a shaman, but you can still become a shaman.

It is the distinction between "can" as "able to" and "can" as "allowed to".

[g33k]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

...

It is the distinction between "can" as "able to" and "can" as "allowed to".

There is also the sense of "can you" that asks, "can you survive?"

If you do it, and doing it pisses off your God severely-enough, there may be effectively-infinite supply of Spirits of Reprisal, and they may be deployed at the worst possible moment(s)...

[GAZZA]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

There is also the sense of "can you" that asks, "can you survive?"

If you do it, and doing it pisses off your God severely-enough, there may be effectively-infinite supply of Spirits of Reprisal, and they may be deployed at the worst possible moment(s)...

I'm not sure that would be appropriate just for awakening your fetch and becoming an apostate. That's more a "I worshipped Humakt but went around distributing Resurrection matrices to everyone" sort of response. Though I suppose there may be some sort of anti-Daka Fal type god that feels the same away about shamanism as Storm Bull does about Chaos.

[French Desperate WindChild]

As GM we have several ways to manage the player wish to become both shaman and any role in a cult

 

the GM agrees :

- the cult (GM + rules + background) accepts it -> no problem

- the cult (GM + rules + background) refuses it but the god (GM + rules + background) doesn't care -> allow the PC to find a shaman and learn in secret.

- the god (GM + rules + background) refuses it -> allow the pc to find a way (some heroquest or the big joker -> "illumination" instructor)

 

the GM disagrees :

- the cult (GM + rules + background) accepts it ->  sorry guy, shaman is not for everyone, and your soul and body cannot accept a fetch, that's sad

- the cult (GM + rules + background) refuses it -> any shaman the pc can find refuses to teach the pc

 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

As GM we have several ways to manage the player wish to become both shaman and any role in a cult

And don't forget, the GM sends them off to meet Argrath, who has strange and unusual magic, and is surrounded by really weird deviants and warlocks.  You can learn anything with them (or so they say), but perhaps more than you want.

[Shiningbrow]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:12 PM, allenowen said:

So if the rules or the cult write ups we currently have don't prohibit it, then yes, anyone can become a shaman. It's kind of implied in the Vasana's Saga stuff, since I believe she learns some shamanic techniques. 

Learning a few techniques is very different to binding yourself to a role, society, "worshipping" spirits, and gaining power from them in return for devotion and sacrifice... And awakening your Fetch.