BRP Lifting Scale / Chart

[RogerDee]

Is there a lifting chart anywhere in one of the books somewhere?

If so, what page?

[hix]

Roll STR on resistance table vs SIZ would be the standard way to do it, so by referencing SIZ chart you can get an idea of lifting capacity.

Edited July 24, 2020 by hix

[RogerDee]

Just now, hix said:

Roll STR on resistance table vs SIZ would be the standard way to do it

Thanks, but that is not what I am after. I am after Str X can lift weight A etc.

I know it was in one of the books, but now I am looking for it I cannot find the darn thing. lol

[rsanford]

Maybe Super World? 

Edited July 24, 2020 by rsanford

[RogerDee]

6 minutes ago, rsanford said:

Maybe Super World? 

Darn it, that is one game I do not have. Any others?

[rsanford]

31 minutes ago, RogerDee said:

Darn it, that is one game I do not have. Any others?

Roger pm me your email address. I will send you the super world table when I get home. 

[seneschal]

Axtgxt has dealt with this extensively In some of the old threads.  Even had a revised SIZ chart.

[rsanford]

7 minutes ago, seneschal said:

Axtgxt has dealt with this extensively In some of the old threads.  Even had a revised SIZ chart.

That's good because all I can find in Superworld is the standard STR versus SIZ on the resistance table....

[tooley1chris]

Either BRP Grimoir or MW have a SIZ to weight chart IIRC. Could probably plug STR where SIZ is to get a decent count?

[Atgxtg]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:20 PM, RogerDee said:

Darn it, that is one game I do not have. Any others?

The formula used in Superworld and latter adapted to RQ3, CoC, and BRP is kg=2^(SIZ/8)*25.

The key point is that the mass (and weight) double for every +8 to SIZ.

In RQ3, CoC and others this progression is flatted out a bit at the low end (SIZ below 8 ) and at the high end (SIZ above 88). Also, someone goofed when copying this into CoC and misaligned the kilogram and pounds tables. Either they made a cut and paste error, or got confused that 1000 kg equal a metric ton, while it takes 2000 pounds to make up a short ton.

Way back, when the BGB came out I pointed this out and asked Jason which coulmn was correct, and we told me to use one or the other, which I did in the table I posted. I beleive that Chasoium updated the table sometime latter on. 

On 7/24/2020 at 1:41 PM, RogerDee said:

Thanks, but that is not what I am after. I am after Str X can lift weight A etc.

Well, that actually doesn't exist in most version of BRP as the game uses the SIZ table. But any SIZ that is ten points below STR is automatic. To be honest this isn't all that great, as, technically, most characters would have to roll to see if they can pick up a bowling ball. THe orginal intent of the table was for things like characters heroically lifting large rocks to throw at enemies, or a portcullis or some such. It wasn't designed for determine what a character could relaible bench press or carry around in a backpack.

Still, if we use the old Superworld table and STR-10 as the automatic success point, we get around 25kg/55 pounds as a carrying capacity for an character with STR 10).

 

On 7/24/2020 at 4:10 PM, seneschal said:

Axtgxt has dealt with this extensively In some of the old threads.  Even had a revised SIZ chart.

Uh, yeah,. 😳  I think I posted the revised chart on the forums somewhere the one that went with the goofed up table in the BGB, I know I still have it on a hard drive, somewhere (I did it up over a dozen years ago, and have a couple of dozen terabytes to search through). I also have the old RQ3 SIZ tables and the Superworld SIZ tables as well as a few alternates and additions (using the SIZ table to rate eletrica POWer, or to denote Speed).If anyone want's I have spreadsheets with the tables as well as a method to covert a given mass or weight into a SIZ score. I kinda use that sort of thing a lot when stating up animals and vehicles. I find it a lot easier and consistent to be able to look at the mass of a real world animal and use the cube-square law to scale a similar creature up or down than to work entirely from scratch.

 

IMO the original Superworld SIZ table is the best one, as it sticks with the doubling progression, which makes a lot of things easier in terms of design and play-ability. For instance a Showa-era Godzilla that is SIZ 156 or so is much easier to use in game than one that is SIZ 2000

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Atgxtg

[Lloyd Dupont]

I never realised that, ideally, there is this precise relation between SIZ and weight.

That implies that body significant length (height for human) is somewhat proportional to 2^(SIZ/24) (and also depends on the geometry). Hence every +24 SIZ  point should be a doubling in height or length.... 

Cool new precise perspective on that characteristic  

Edited August 12, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Atgxtg]

47 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I never realised that, ideally, there is this precise relation between SIZ and weight.

Yes, at least initially, when Superworld was done up. Later the progression was altered a bit at the low end to prevent SIZ from going negative, and at the high end to try and make it more linear. Mostof these changes didn't matter all that much though, as the game rarely uses SIZ scores below 8 or above 88. 

47 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

That implies that body significant length (height for human) is somewhat proportional to 2^(SIZ/24) (and also depends on the geometry). Hence every +24 SIZ  point should be a doubling in height or length....

Yes, by applying the square-cube law we can determine that if you somehow magically doubled the height, width, and depth of a creature (or object) would would cube it's mass  for +24 SIZ.

47 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Cool new precise perspective on that characteristic  

Glad to be so illuminating ().

The nice thing about there being some sort of defined formula is that there are a lot of tricks we can do with it. Scaling creatures being one example. It can also help with vehicle design and performance, if you know something about the relationship between velocity, force and power, you can almost reduce vehicle speed down to a (STR-SIZ)/2 sort of formula. . Weapon damage better yet another. If you look at the damage bonus table you can see that each +16 is worth +1D6. That means that each quadrupling of the force is worth +1D6. With a little work, that could be used to determine a weapon's average damage based upon it's kinetic energy. 

 

[Mugen]

The non-linear nature of Mass/SIZ ratio has strange implications on the meaning of STR versus SIZ opposed rolls.

Adding X points to SIZ means you multiply the associated Mass by an exponential factor (2^(X/24)), but your chance of success is only reduced by a very linear -5*X%.

[Lloyd Dupont]

mass is multiplied (or divided) by 2 every 8 points, and chance go from 50% to 90% or 10% when the difference increase from 0 to 8...

Seem fair enough?

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Mugen said:

The non-linear nature of Mass/SIZ ratio has strange implications on the meaning of STR versus SIZ opposed rolls.

Adding X points to SIZ means you multiply the associated Mass by an exponential factor (2^(X/24)), but your chance of success is only reduced by a very linear -5*X%.

Yes, but chance of success isn't the same thing as ratio between tho stats.

While people intuitively think of things as being proportional, that's not how everything works. For instance, lets say you had tug-o-war between someone who was STR 8 vs. someone who had STR 16. While the stats are in a 2:1 ratio, and the amount that each can lift is also in a 2:1 ratio, the reality is that outcomes aren't going to be in a 2:1 proportion, and  the stronger character is going to win the tug-o-war pretty much every time, and the 10% vs 90% chances of success are much closer to the actual outcomes.