Young gods

[Minlister]

I am preparing a scenario in which a Jajagappa priest is reenacting the murder of Yelm in order to summon the night hounds who dragged Yelm in Hell and I was wondering about the ceremonial vestments for Yelm, Orlanth and Ernalda.

Should the runes be the usual ones or should they mirror the "life stage" of the each god at this precise moment of their "career"? 

For instance, does Orlanth already have the Mastery rune at this point in his career? Should I put the Life and Death runes for Yelm (as in RQ:G) even if this probably mirror his passage through death and resurrection, posterior to the murder episode itself ? Or should I go "back" for him to Stasis and Mastery?

And more broadly? Should we see the gods as "mythically" evolving in this way? Which would have interesting consequences on the preparation of heroquests.

[jajagappa]

23 minutes ago, Minlister said:

Should the runes be the usual ones or should they mirror the "life stage" of the each god at this precise moment of their "career"? 

It may depend on whose myth you are telling.  Is it from the Orlanthi, Yelmic, Ernaldan, or Jajagappan perspective?  Orlanthi would likely include Mastery to show off Orlanth's skills, the others probably would not as he has yet to prove his "mastery" over Yelm.

For Yelm, I'd go with Fire, Life, Stasis, and Mastery - he is the Emperor (mastery), he maintains the world order (stasis), and the Sun helps create Life.  He has not yet experienced Death.

26 minutes ago, Minlister said:

Should we see the gods as "mythically" evolving in this way? Which would have interesting consequences on the preparation of heroquests.

I don't think it would be incorrect to do so, but I'd emphasize how the story works and needs to evolve rather than a general evolution.  If Yelm has yet to experience Death, than he should not have that.  If this is Yelm in the Underworld, where he has conquered Death, than yes, he would have it.

If it's Orlanth before he's killed Yelm, and before he's formed the Storm Tribe, then probably should not have Mastery.

[EricW]

Orlanth seems to be holding a nasty big sword...

[Minlister]

@jajagappa

Thanks, that was my feeling too that the runes could vary along the mythical history of a given god, which has to be taken into account when heroquesting

@EricW 

I am not sure to get your point, do you mean that on this specific mythic episode (and consequently re-enactment), Orlanth shoud be considered to be linked to the Death rune?

[g33k]

6 hours ago, Minlister said:

...

I am not sure to get your point, do you mean that on this specific mythic episode (and consequently re-enactment), Orlanth shoud be considered to be linked to the Death rune?

Orlanth, according to the myth, was explicitly wielding Death itself.

He didn't "own" the rune, it wasn't part of his core identity.  So I wouldn't put it on his clothing, I wouldn't "invest" him with it; but even in a non-combat moment he should be "wielding" Death as a tool in-hand.

[Akhôrahil]

17 minutes ago, g33k said:

He didn't "own" the rune, it wasn't part of his core identity.  So I wouldn't put it on his clothing, I wouldn't "invest" him with it; but even in a non-combat moment he should be "wielding" Death as a tool in-hand.

Agree about this.

It’s also part of The Arming of Orlanth, so standard equipment for him.

[Minlister]

@g33k

Quote

Orlanth, according to the myth, was explicitly wielding Death itself.

Thanks, I was aware of that, but slightly reluctant to see Orlanth as fully in control enough for the rune to be part of his "mythic code" at this time. One should wonder who was in control at the moment, Orlanth over Death or Death over Orlanth.

But the main point, and this goes also for @Akhôrahil , there seems to be a consensus here over the fact that a god's "mythic code" (as I call the rune he is tied to) can evolve over "mythic" time.

Am I right on that or do I misunderstand?

[Sir_Godspeed]

9 hours ago, Minlister said:

But the main point, and this goes also for @Akhôrahil , there seems to be a consensus here over the fact that a god's "mythic code" (as I call the rune he is tied to) can evolve over "mythic" time.

 

I'd say so. This evolution is often part of the subcult system, ie. Adventurous can be seen as a younger Orlanth, whereas Rex is a more mature one. That's not all there is to it, of course, but it works. 

An immature Ernalda would basically be Voria (and may or may not indeed be Voria. Myths are weird.)

[Qizilbashwoman]

9 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'd say so. This evolution is often part of the subcult system, ie. Adventurous can be seen as a younger Orlanth, whereas Rex is a more mature one. That's not all there is to it, of course, but it works. 

An immature Ernalda would basically be Voria (and may or may not indeed be Voria. Myths are weird.)

It's Voria as a youth, Ernalda as an adult, and Asrelia as an elder. (And maybe Ty Kora Tek when She's dead.)

[EricW]

On 7/28/2020 at 8:12 AM, g33k said:

Orlanth, according to the myth, was explicitly wielding Death itself.

He didn't "own" the rune, it wasn't part of his core identity.  So I wouldn't put it on his clothing, I wouldn't "invest" him with it; but even in a non-combat moment he should be "wielding" Death as a tool in-hand.

Orlanth was the premier death god at that point in the narrative, he just slew the emperor of Glorantha. It should be possible to contact this aspect of Orlanth through a hero quest and sacrifice for at least single use death magic. 

[Minlister]

Yes, good points, various aspects of some gods are covering specific ages of more specifically life-stages. Although, in the case of Orlanth the runes don't change. 

@EricW I am not entirely satisfied with the idea that Orlanth was a Death god at this point. Obviously he dealt death but he seems to me mostly unaware of its true power. 

[simonh]

7 hours ago, EricW said:

Orlanth was the premier death god at that point in the narrative, he just slew the emperor of Glorantha. It should be possible to contact this aspect of Orlanth through a hero quest and sacrifice for at least single use death magic. 

I think no and yes. Orlanth isn't a death god, yes he wielded death but he never accepted it as a core part of his being. Rather he was revulsed by the consequences of what he had done and risked everything to set things right and remake the world. He could have become a death god, but didn't.

Yes Orlanth obtained the sword death and learned to wield it, so there should be an Orlanthi sword quest. Humakt isn't an associate cult of Orlanth though, so I'm not entirely clear how that should work. Is there a subcult of Orlanth the Sun Slayer?

[EricW]

@Darius West contends there should be a subcult Orlanth Murderous, based on Orlanth killing Yelm. I guess in the absence of canon you can make your own choices.
 

There are enough obscure Orlanth subcults that one more wont change game balance significantly, like “Orlanth Martyred” from “Blood of Orlanth”.

If you need to explain why Orlanthi sever spirit is not widely known you could give the cult an onerous condition of membership, like a requirement to challenge a sun Lord to a duel to the death in front of his followers once per year

Edited July 30, 2020 by EricW