londra, londros, a family story

[French Desperate WindChild]

looking to create a character, cousin of Leika, I used the rqg adventure book (GM Pack ) to find some parents

And I found Londra, daughter of Londros II, child (M? F? Helering? ) of Londros I, child (M? F? Helering? ) of Kerreneth.

 

I was happy to  find so many londros, that of course you can find a noble "of Londros" parent of my character in the Taraling clan.

 

but looking for information as a meeting between Londra and the character may happen, I m a little bit confused:

 

in the wiki, her father is chief of the arnoring https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Londra

in the well of daliath, she is a poor noble of the bayberries clan https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/personalities-of-glorantha-londra-of-londros/  (well that s weird, I understand that bayberries =  arnoring, but how can she be from a poor family and daughter of the chieftain ? )

in rqg, I understand she is taraling, as her "londros" parents.

 

so where is my mistake ? is there an update of her origin ? are some people in the rqg tree not taraling but arnoring ?

I know they are all colymar but...

 

 

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

And I found Londra, daughter of Londros II, child (M? F? Helering? ) of Londros I, child (M? F? Helering? ) of Kerreneth.

Londra is a famed character from Greg's original Sartar campaign and was the leader of the Temple of the Wooden Sword.

Best source is Wyrms Footnotes #11 p.15 (and subsequent issues).  As noted here, her father was head of the family "hearth" which may just mean a stead.  Her full RQ2 stats are there, plus this other note about her background (Well of Daliath is based on this).

Edited March 19, 2021 by jajagappa

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

so where is my mistake ? is there an update of her origin ? are some people in the rqg tree not taraling but arnoring ?

I know they are all colymar but...

Since mothers come from different clans, perhaps you can simply reconcile it as:  father was a Taraling of Londros stead, and mother was of the Bayberry clan (i.e. Arnoring) and perhaps she spent time among both kin?

[Ian Absentia]

I guess I never looked at this article more closely.  Ken was playing a 12-year-old girl?  And a Rune priest twice over at that.  Dang, they turn 'em out young in Sartar.

!i!

[French Desperate WindChild]

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Since mothers come from different clans, perhaps you can simply reconcile it as:  father was a Taraling of Londros stead, and mother was of the Bayberry clan (i.e. Arnoring) and perhaps she spent time among both kin?

hmmm that could work,

that means my character's mother could be a sister of the Taraling father of Londra (I have already booked the character's father)

 

42 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

As noted here, her father was head of the family "hearth" which may just mean a stead

and that could be very interesting to have the sister (mother) not very rich after all (and explains some things)

34 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

I guess I never looked at this article more closely.  Ken was playing a 12-year-old girl?  And a Rune priest twice over at that.  Dang, they turn 'em out young in Sartar.

!i!

I saw in the wiki 1598, and now, thanks to you I see a big issue (at least for my story) with this 1605...

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

that means my character's mother could be a sister of the Taraling father of Londra (I have already booked the character's father)

Sartar Companion p.76 has a slightly different version:

Londra of Londros
The heroine of such songs as The Wooden Sword in Dorastor, Defense of the Sword against Zorak Zoran, Quest to the Wounding of Arroin, and the surprising Dissolution of the Wooden Sword, Londra is perhaps the most famous Humakt cultist in Sartar. Londra is from the Colymar tribe and the daughter of an Arnoring clan chieftain. She joined the cult of Humakt during her adulthood rites and proved herself a magical prodigy and the tribal priests marveled at her power.
Londra wears a dwarf-made iron cuirass, and greaves and vambraces on her left limbs. In battle she wears a closed bronze helmet with a fearsome crest. Londra’s iron sword is blessed by Humakt but she tells none its name. She has Urugh-Ugly’s fortune: a vast collection of golden coins that takes 14 mules to transport. Ownership of the gold is disputed with King Kangharl and several other powerful Sartarites.
Londra’s most famous exploit is her Founding of the Wooden Sword and establishing that temple inside of the Sazdorf troll stronghold. She was the Warleader of the Wooden Sword, and the commander of such Humakti as Alebard and the Nameless Humakti. Kangarl was once one of her closest friends; his betrayal of the Orlanthi gods led to her self-exile at Old Wind. Several times, Kangarl has sent jurors from the Colymar tribe demanding that she attend a tribal assembly to resolve ownership of Urugh-Ugly’s fortune, but she has always refused (sometimes violently). Although Londra is a Sword of Humakt, she is not a devotee of the War God and does not serve Death single-mindedly. Londra is also an initiate of Orlanth (specifically as a member of the Vinga subcult) and now serves as a priest of Old Wind Temple.

This doesn't fully reconcile with the lineage in RQ Adventures book.  Perhaps instead of daughter of an Arnoring clan chieftain, Londra's mother is the daughter of that chieftain, and her mother then married Londros of the Taraling.  He's a steadholder then, and could claim lineage to the Taraling chieftains, which would make Londra noble from both sides, but her father could still be rather poor (or became poor due to Kangharl's retribution against Leika's kin).

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I saw in the wiki 1598, and now, thanks to you I see a big issue (at least for my story) with this 1605...

Not sure where the 1605 date came from given the campaigns were in the period 1613-1615.  Even 1598 is pushing it - she'd have been 15 when she began her exploits - but just consider her blessed by the gods.

[Frp]

On 3/19/2021 at 2:36 PM, Ian Absentia said:

I guess I never looked at this article more closely.  Ken was playing a 12-year-old girl?  And a Rune priest twice over at that.  Dang, they turn 'em out young in Sartar.

!i!

I can't believe I never did the math😕

Edited April 24, 2021 by Frp

[Frp]

When's she going to turn up in RQG?

[Ian Absentia]

You know what?  Over the last couple of hours I've fallen in love with the notion of a 12-year-old Rune priest of Humakt.  I'm picturing Hit-Girl from Kick-Ass.

I realise I'm not helping.

!i!

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Sartar Companion p.76 has a slightly different version:

yes it is aligned with the wiki descripion, that the start of my issue

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

This doesn't fully reconcile with the lineage in RQ Adventures book.  Perhaps instead of daughter of an Arnoring clan chieftain, Londra's mother is the daughter of that chieftain, and her mother then married Londros of the Taraling.  He's a steadholder then, and could claim lineage to the Taraling chieftains, which would make Londra noble from both sides, but her father could still be rather poor (or became poor due to Kangharl's retribution against Leika's kin).

that seems to me a good solution

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Not sure where the 1605 date came from

the wyrms footprint, I didn't see the date before @Ian Absentianoticed it (mmm is Ian the avatar of any disorder god?.... mmmm)

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Even 1598 is pushing it - she'd have been 15 when she began her exploits - but just consider her blessed by the gods.

I consider too that 15 as enough to become a hero career. After all Heracles was an hero as 0 year old.

  My issue was more about the potential (I m not yet sure) relationship between a character born in 1594 and a londra born in 1605... when can they meet and discuss. I will keep 1598 until... Sartar publication or other cancel it

[Lordabdul]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I saw in the wiki 1598, and now, thanks to you I see a big issue (at least for my story) with this 1605...

Where did the wiki get its date of 1598? It cites the Sartar Companion as its source, but I don't see any birth date for Londra in that book.

[French Desperate WindChild]

26 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Where did the wiki get its date of 1598? It cites the Sartar Companion as its source, but I don't see any birth date for Londra in that book.

follow my first link

Quote

She was born in 1598 ST

 

[Lordabdul]

6 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

follow my first link

That's a link to the wiki... I was asking where the wiki got it from, i.e. a proper citation from a Glorantha publication?

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

That's a link to the wiki... I was asking where the wiki got it from, i.e. a proper citation from a Glorantha publication?

Found it!  WF#12 p.3.

[Lordabdul]

5 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Found it!  WF#12 p.3.

Oh nice! Thanks. For some reason my PDF search missed that one.

[French Desperate WindChild]

12 hours ago, lordabdul said:

That's a link to the wiki... I was asking where the wiki got it from, i.e. a proper citation from a Glorantha publication?

ah ok... bon ben en français la prochaine fois, je comprends rien 😛

[Ian Absentia]

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Found it!  WF#12 p.3....

Weirdly, I think I remember reading that in the letters col, but never circled it back to the original article in the previous issue.  The joy of re-reading something 40 years later.

!i!

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

The joy of re-reading something 40 years later.

While off-thread, I found these tidbits on the same page rather amusing.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

While off-thread, I found these tidbits on the same page rather amusing.

I had completely forgotten: those amusing questions were one of my (very small) contribution to WF!  Thanks for finding them so many years later.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

WF Issue #11 introduces "The Riddle Man", and has the first question,
    "When was the last time you wished you could use Guided Teleport?"

Issue #13 has  "What is the most useless Battle magic spell?"

Issue #14 features
    "What is the most useless Battle magic spell?", (more answers) plus
    "Has your allied spirit ever misbehaved?"

[Bill the barbarian]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:51 PM, Ian Absentia said:

You know what?  Over the last couple of hours I've fallen in love with the notion of a 12-year-old Rune priest of Humakt.  I'm picturing Hit-Girl from Kick-Ass.

 

Well than we just need a kick-ass!
still not helping!

 

[Michael Cule]

Londros is on the map in THE PEGASUS PLATEAU of the area around the Plateau. It's shown as south of the Stream and thus in the Zethnoring clan, which used to be Colymar but is currently part of the Locaem tribe (which fits some parts of the standard biography but not others). 

Is she still around in 1625 or later? I had the feeling that there had been an announcement of her departing for the Halls of Humakt somewhere. 

When my players passed through the town on their way to try to acquire Hippogriff mounts I told them that the locals believe her dead and have erected a statue of her holding a wooden sword bigger than herself and staring balefully at the Red Moon. 

[Joerg]

Londra was reported as acting household head at Old Wind, the resident priest approachable for normal administrative concerns. in the Moon Design description of the place, as of 1621 or so.

Her Taraling ties appear to outweigh whichever Zethnoring ties her parent may have had.