Broadsword vs. Short Sword "problem"

[SDLeary]

51 minutes ago, Monty Lovering said:

Duel wielding is not attacking “simultaneously” and confusing your opponent.

It’s often a substitute for a shield because shields are a pain in the butt to carry.

Correct. However, it confers upon the wielder the ability to attack from either position, using the other weapon as both a device to deliver a feint, and to function as a replacement for a shield.

 

54 minutes ago, Monty Lovering said:

There’s a video game and RPG obsession with it as people think it means you attack twice as often.

It doesn’t.

Also correct. It confers the ability to choose to attack from differing vectors, or perhaps more accurate a wider range of differing vectors.

 

57 minutes ago, Monty Lovering said:

Your offhand weapon is your parrying weapon. If your opponent misses their attack THEN you should be allowed to attack with the offhand weapon. If you want to attack with both weapons you get no parries.

That is the thing. When you have two weapons, if you have enough skill with your off hand, you can choose to use that hand instead.

If the opponent misses their attack, that shouldn't allow attacking with your off hand, which in your method is for parrying. This is because during your opponents attack, you have (more than likely, unless you are well armored) you have committed the parrying hand to parrying. I would posit that it would be more "realistic?" to allow repost on a significant parry result, such as a Critical Parry. This would denote that your parry has created a significant opening or thrown your opponent off balance enough that you can get an additional blow in.

SDLeary

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, SDLeary said:

If the opponent misses their attack, that shouldn't allow attacking with your off hand, which in your method is for parrying. This is because during your opponents attack, you have (more than likely, unless you are well armored) you have committed the parrying hand to parrying. I would posit that it would be more "realistic?" to allow repost on a significant parry result, such as a Critical Parry. This would denote that your parry has created a significant opening or thrown your opponent off balance enough that you can get an additional blow in.

The last bit takes us into the "How to make combat more exciting" thread - with particular reference to the options that Mythras has.

[Mugen]

11 hours ago, Monty Lovering said:

(...)katana even means ‘sword’ (...). 

I know two kanji which can refer to "sword"-like weapons, 刀 (which can be read katana, tô or chi) and 剣 (tsurugi, or ken).

Although both can be used as a generic word for "swords", the first one is strongly attached to curved, one-edged weapons, whereas the second one commonly describes straight, double-edged, swords.

It also seems to me that 剣 is more generic, as it's used in kenjutsu (剣術) or kendô(剣道).

But even a hatchet is literally called a mountain katana (yamagatana/山刀), so...

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Mugen

[Monty Lovering]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

I know two kanji which can refer to "sword"-like weapons, 刀 (which can be read katana, tô or chi) and 剣 (tsurugi, or ken).

Although both can be used as a generic word for "swords", the first one is strongly attached to curved, one-edged weapons, whereas the second one commonly describes straight, double-edged, swords.

It also seems to me that 剣 is more generic, as it's used in kenjutsu (剣術) or kendô(剣道).

But even a hatchet is literally called a mountain katana (yamagatana/山刀), so...

 

The root word for sabre is ‘cutter’. Scimitar might just be an old Iranian word for sword as it’s etymology it unknown. 

The kanji for katana is the Chinese logogram for a single-edge sword which the Japanese have used with great economy. The curve of what we call a katana as opposed to other terms, as you know, was a later feature adapting the Chinese-inspired straight single-edged blade trust preceded it.  

As you not above, a two-edged sword or swordsmanship is 剣

All good fun but doesn’t really change my point that a curved sword is a sword. At least IMG the shattering thing is all about cruciform swords being Death runes. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monty Lovering
Missed a bit

[Shiningbrow]

刀 in Chinese is the word for knife, of various types. With different prefixes, you also get cleaver or meat cleaver. And, as above, also sword (by extension).

大刀 translates literally as "big sword", but might be what we think of as a Chinese "broadsword" - 1-2H, bit of a curve, thicker at the pointy end, with a sharpened bit at the end.

However, 剑 (Jian) is the fairly thin 2-edged "tai chi" sword we would think of. Quite a different skill set.

[Darius West]

15 hours ago, Monty Lovering said:

Spear are better than swords against armour because history.

I have rolled back quite a bit of complexity after six months of play testing with my players.

I started off VERY crunchy.

I’ve trimmed stuff that added nothing to the fun and kept stuff I think makes the weapons more believable.

Your table might enjoy that detail.

This sounds interesting Monty, please consider starting a separate topic to let people know what you have done with the system.

[Darius West]

22 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I see, I hadn't picked up on that specific Humakti theological point. I was thinking of it purely as a Sartar-vs-Lunar social situation, "using the weapons of the enemy".

Yeah, np.  So in terms of the Sartar-vs-Lunar problem, it seems to me that Sartar has been under occupation for 22-23 years as of the liberation.  During that time it hasn't been a great source of its traditional weapons.  That means that most weapons made in this period will likely have been for Lunar clients and made according to lunar methods and patterns for Lunar use.  Now I imagine that Sartarites have captured plenty of that material, but much of their gear will be captured Lunar army surplus, somewhat reworked with refitted rune markings i.e. stripped off moon runes, added on air runes, etc.  In terms of kopises, this will amount to reworked hilts and guards.  No more bat motifs, more cat motifs.

[Monty Lovering]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

刀 in Chinese is the word for knife, of various types. With different prefixes, you also get cleaver or meat cleaver. And, as above, also sword (by extension).

大刀 translates literally as "big sword", but might be what we think of as a Chinese "broadsword" - 1-2H, bit of a curve, thicker at the pointy end, with a sharpened bit at the end.

However, 剑 (Jian) is the fairly thin 2-edged "tai chi" sword we would think of. Quite a different skill set.

No extension of meaning needed really. It no more means single-edged knife than single-edged sword. It means single-edged blade.

And is used unmodified as dao to donate the single-edged counterpart to the jian you mention: both swords.

Only reason a Chinese person might not say sword if you asked him what the long blade at his waist was, is if it was a sword. As we only have sword. Just like the Greeks have five words for love compared to our one so too do some languages have two words for sword.

But no one in Warring States China or the Anarchy in England would call their sword by the classification we use today. They’d call it a sword. Not an arming sword or 大刀, not unless they had two and needed to disambiguate.

Broadsword is, funnily enough, probably the worst name for a sword as it is just so not bronze-age, has meant several things none of which are what it is in RuneQuest, including a now defunct term for arming sword, and now is basically the basket-hilted double-edged transition away from the arming sword in the early modern period before they died out in favour of back swords (single-bladed versions).

 

[svensson]

I ran across a blade smith competition show that might be interesting. Two smiths were asked to construct and test the xiphos. Because it wasn't specifically germane to RQ, I posted a link down in Alastor's.

 

[davecake]

On 5/10/2022 at 9:00 PM, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, in movies you see warriors smacking each other with their shields all the time. This never happens in RQ because there's never a mechanical advantage to doing it.

Not quite never. When weapon arm is injured or weapon is dropped due to fumble or disarm. A Berserk is likely to attack with their shield - sure, a second weapon would do more damage, but it’s likely at a small percentage, while shield is high, and a shield is still a bit useful to a Berserk for passive defense while charging etc. But not as much as you’d see fighters doing this.
 

An argument could be made, though, that shield bashes are not really designed to injure most of the time, but to stagger the opponent enough for the real blow to land, and it’s just part of a shield fighting style but the blow that counts comes from the other weapon? It would be very hard to inflict real damage with the flat of a shield, it’s so spread out (oddities like spiked shield bosses notwithstanding), and hard to strike with the edge of a shield consistently  without reducing its effectiveness as a shield.