Ransom for an allied spirit

[Godlearner]

What would be a ransom for an allied spirit?

[Akhôrahil]

Same as the person’s, perhaps? So often 1000 L? Seems like a reasonable sum to me.

I could imagine cult interventions in some cases, because it’s possibly mildly sacriligous to keep the spirits of your god hostage.

Sacred animals in general would have at least the same wergild as a free person. I believe there’s something about this in Storm Tribe or Thunder Rebels. Plus again, the sacrilege angle.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Shiningbrow]

14 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Same as the person’s, perhaps? So often 1000 L? Seems like a reasonable sum to me.

I could imagine cult interventions in some cases, because it’s possibly mildly sacriligous to keep the spirits of your god hostage.

Sacred animals in general would have at least the same wergild as a free person. I believe there’s something about this in Storm Tribe or Thunder Rebels. Plus again, the sacrilege angle.

When you ransom back a person, do they come with all their gear as well?

Honestly, I would think not automatically. And so, if an allied spirit is held within an object - or animal - then I don't think they'd automatically come back for free.

Besides which, it's only sacrilege if it's your god that your offending. I'm fairly sure an Orlanthi wouldn't care less if they offend Yelm or Yelmalio... Also, I suspect an Orlanthi would consider it fine to hold an allied spirit of a Wind Lord who was caught (say) in a cattle raid... because, it should be seen as shameful, and might even call into question having the allied spirit in the first place...

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Besides which, it's only sacrilege if it's your god that your offending.

Yes, completely agree, but quite often, ransoms will be paid within the culture. So if it’s Orlanth or Ernalda, there might be priests who express their Opinions.

[French Desperate WindChild]

You can manage your hostage gently

pretty sure that a devoted clan will bring back the allied spirit (same Panthéon of course I agree) without any ransom (expecting or not some benefit from the god itself )

a less devoted clan will respectfully ransom the spirit. Maybe the priest will spend a lot of time with it

and a shameful clan (or a clan with another pantheon) will just consider it as any other hostage 

 

for the ransom level I would ask for the noble ransom at least. The spirit is sent by a god after all

[Darius West]

*Snortlaugh* Now this is a story that should be epic in the retelling.  How did someone get their Allied Spirit captured?

[Akhôrahil]

20 minutes ago, Darius West said:

*Snortlaugh* Now this is a story that should be epic in the retelling.  How did someone get their Allied Spirit captured?

Most of them are in an animal or an item, so it doesn't seem so hard?

[David Scott]

For me this falls into the same category as getting your allied spirit killed or its object broken, you haven't looked after it well enough so it leaves. You gain +1D3 Rep as the Priest / lord who lost their allied spirit.

 

[Akhôrahil]

52 minutes ago, David Scott said:

For me this falls into the same category as getting your allied spirit killed or its object broken, you haven't looked after it well enough so it leaves. You gain +1D3 Rep as the Priest / lord who lost their allied spirit.

I would apply this only if you didn’t pay the ransom. Being captured is unfortunate, but not the end of the world, and if you get captured, it isn’t weird if your sword, cat or bison also gets captured.

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

You can manage your hostage gently

pretty sure that a devoted clan will bring back the allied spirit (same Panthéon of course I agree) without any ransom (expecting or not some benefit from the god itself )

a less devoted clan will respectfully ransom the spirit. Maybe the priest will spend a lot of time with it

and a shameful clan (or a clan with another pantheon) will just consider it as any other hostage 

 

for the ransom level I would ask for the noble ransom at least. The spirit is sent by a god after all

Actually, I might disagree with parts of this.

I think the temple is going to pay that ransom automatically, along with the ransom of the Lord, Priest or whomever has the allied spirit.

When the clan who has the prisoners says to the clan that they came from that they have said prisoners, then the temple will just automatically gather all the loot together - there won't really be any negotiations (unless there's feuding, or some other special reason to negotiate - eg, blood was spilled, people injured or killed, etc). After mass battles, it can get pretty complex.

But say if it was Balmyr & Greydogs? Same pantheon - but if there's bad blood between them...???

(So, I'm saying, it might not be as simple as having the same pantheon, and the clan is more or less devoted to that pantheon).

 

[PhilHibbs]

If a rune level is captured, and they have their allied spirit in a physical item, then there's a good chance that that item will be taken from them. So should being captured in a battle mean the automatic loss of allied spirit? I don't think so. If the enemy is honourable and willing to ransom back the RL, then surely they will ransom back the AS as well. Or maybe it's traditionally considered part of the same transaction, that the typical higher RL ransom includes the AS.

[French Desperate WindChild]

Well from my perspective nothing is automatic.

some priest may be happy to not pay for a competitor , of just let some weeks before paying just to see what would happen. Politics is not white or black

and when I talk about devotion it is not about a % but about a reaction facing a situation

 

If the greydogs capture a « holy » element (allied spirit or some holy person, or some holy artefact) they have a choice to make:

will they consider the element as an enemy, considering their feud as more important than the holiness of it

or will they consider their relationship with their god more important than anything ?

that not so simple and help to create tragedy:

 Some would prefer to not have the hostage then the choice

some need the ransom just to survive (need of food…) 

some have their ancestors who want revenge even with pseudo holy person 

etc

[Joerg]

Anybody with an allied spirit will have a noble's ransom, I suppose, even if they are just of Godtalker status. At that price, the allied spirit should be included.

The captor of the allied spirit might ba a different individual (and from a different clan or even tribe) than the captor of the rune level, though. Praxian rune levels with their allied spirits in their steeds might be the victims of such circumstances more often than rune levels with smaller animals or inanimate objects as allied spirits.

Biurian's captivity in Sun County prior to his role in the Thee Blows of Anger did not result in a separation from Wind Whisperer.

[Darius West]

On 6/26/2022 at 6:44 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Most of them are in an animal or an item, so it doesn't seem so hard?

Still... Careless... 🙂

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Still... Careless... 🙂

To lose one allied spirit may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.

[Godlearner]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Still... Careless... 🙂

In this particular case both the Wachaza priest and his allied spirit were captured after sucessful divine interventions (one by each). The priest now has a POW of 6 and his allied spirit is at POW 3.

[Darius West]

19 hours ago, Godlearner said:

In this particular case both the Wachaza priest and his allied spirit were captured after sucessful divine interventions (one by each). The priest now has a POW of 6 and his allied spirit is at POW 3.

My party calls that a "power spanking".

[Godlearner]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

My party calls that a "power spanking".

Yeah, and now he owes a Ransom on top of that.