Grazeland adventures

[Squaredeal Sten]

Are there any other published adventures set in the Grazelands, other than Chaosium's  The Smoking Ruin and the related JC expansion, Korolstead?

I would have thought that with the Grazelanders being a starting adventurer option in RQiG, more people would be locating adventures there.  On the other hand we have a lot of cultural  background on Sartar and Prax. Little for the Grazelands.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[soltakss]

The Other Side of the Dragon, from Sartar Rising #3, involves a trip to the Grazelands. It's for HeroQuest but should be easy enough to use the scenario for RuneQuest.

 

[Nick Brooke]

Here's the thing: Chaosium's default expectation is that your player character party will be led by Sartarites and based out of Sartar. Sure, you can recruit some foreign hangers-on from other homelands (cf. Vasana & Co.), but the default expectation is that adventurers will mostly be kicking around Jonstown and Clearwine, doing jobs for the local Sartarite leaders. At this point, if you want to run a Praxian, Tarshite (either flavour), Grazelander or Esrolian campaign, you've only got the RQG homeland writeups and whatever you can glean from forums and older sources to build on. It is what it is.

[DrGoth]

56 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Here's the thing: Chaosium's default expectation is that your player character party will be led by Sartarites and based out of Sartar. Sure, you can recruit some foreign hangers-on from other homelands (cf. Vasana & Co.), but the default expectation is that adventurers will mostly be kicking around Jonstown and Clearwine, doing jobs for the local Sartarite leaders. At this point, if you want to run a Praxian, Tarshite (either flavour), Grazelander or Esrolian campaign, you've only got the RQG homeland writeups and whatever you can glean from forums and older sources to build on. It is what it is.

Which given how big and wonderful Glorantha is, is a bit of a shame.

[soltakss]

6 hours ago, DrGoth said:

Which given how big and wonderful Glorantha is, is a bit of a shame.

So, it is down to Jonstown Compendium authors to fill in those gaps.

[jajagappa]

51 minutes ago, soltakss said:

it is down to Jonstown Compendium authors to fill in those gaps.

There's only so much bandwidth that Chaosium has, much as we might like it to cover everywhere.

And as @soltakss notes, that is where the JC comes in.  There's a lot of material now set in and around Dorastor, there's content for Glamour, there's content for the East Isles, Kralorela, and Teshnos, there's material on the Hsunchen cultures, there's several takes on Fronela (and Evan Franke's work is well in progress and looking very good), and I've added in my Imther material.  There really is a wealth to draw upon, and it continues to expand.

For the Grazelands, it really just needs someone to start developing ideas - and we've got a forum here to throw in ideas.

Edited April 22, 2023 by jajagappa

[David Scott]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:48 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

I would have thought that with the Grazelanders being a starting adventurer option in RQiG, more people would be locating adventures there.  On the other hand we have a lot of cultural  background on Sartar and Prax. Little for the Grazelands.

If you have the core rules, King of Sartar (and maybe the guide), you have plenty to start a Grazelander game.

[Squaredeal Sten]

OK, the few obvious facts:

The RQiG book says Grazelanders (Presumably not Vendref) spend their time herding horses.  Per Smoking Ruin they also sell protection to traders and travelers.  No farmers, metal crafters, or other trades.

The Featherd Horse Queen is worshiped as" a living goddess.  But available material says not an actual goddess. She is more like the Emperor of Japan.

Chiefs are elected.  

They like Sun cults, of which we have the most detail on Yelmalio. But Yelm = Yo Kargazant is their choice.  The FHQ is High Priestess of the Earth, goddess they call La Ungariant which my spell check wants to distort. Also Kero Fin.

As I understand it, unlike the Praxians the clans are not at war with each other.  

There are trade routes from Tarsh to Esrolia through the Grazers" lands.  Taxed by the Grazers but not run by them, that's the Vendref.  If they can do long distance trade then the Vendref have more mobility than indicated.

The sources of drama should include

-conflict with the Uz;

-whatever Ethelrist may do, though he ought not to be aggressive with neighbors , he sells war, why should he give it for free?

- spillover of Tarsh and Lunar politics

What I don't have a feel for is the flavor customs, things like hospitality, marriage, do they use a clan ring, do they practise casual banditry.  And how seriously do I take this no-crafters thing: Do the vendref make their arrows? Their tents or yurts?  Saddles or do they ride bareback?  If I take it completely seriously they become like the Spartiates.  

Use of mobile clan shrines is Indicated by their rider habits.

Not to speak of inventing some truly unique trademark habits.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spell check doesn't like this.

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Per Smoking Ruin they also sell protection to traders and travelers.  No farmers, metal crafters, or other trades.

Clearly there are caravans that run overland from Nochet to Furthest. It seems natural that merchants will buy "guides" and "protection" from one of the Grazelands clans to ensure their caravan passes through successfully. The FHQ will encourage this, including specific stops at one or more of the Posts and their caravanserais. 

There's also a lot of occasions where the Grazelanders appear on one or another side in the various military campaigns between 1580 and 1625. So, they serve as much as mercenaries, perhaps more so, than the Sun Dome Templars.  And if they haven't been hired, then they'll go raiding through Esrolia, Sartar, Tarsh, and perhaps beyond.

I think Jeff has indicated in various FB posts about other aspects of Grazelands culture:

On their gods, but notes the dichotomy of "ranchers vs farmers" and the range of crafters in their cities: Notes on the Grazelands – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com) 

And more useful notes here: Notes on the Grazelands – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com)

 

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

The Guide

40,000 humans in he Grazelands.  This would include the Vendref.  37,000 rural, 3,000 urban.

"Th Pure Horse people worship their horses"! "and raise mighty herds of superior creatures which they sell and with which they carry goods across Dragon pass."  ? So besides being horse traders they are merchants  or at run pack trains?  Interesting, this has not been visible in more recent rliterature.  And i note, they don't seem to do issaries.

Culture similar  to Prax - never herd cattle -

Men are generally considered superior to women (despite the FHQ).  [Here is one aspect for which i am looking for some background, color, and customs].

The Vendref are Orlanthi, enslaved  OR enserfed [which? There is a difference] not allowed to have weapons or ride horses. many of the Verndef meerchants.  the FHQ speaks for and is protector of the Vendref.  I don't see a Vendref population figure.

The Grazelanders retire their disabled and elderly to fortified settlements alongside the vendref crafters and merchants.  These are designated places for trade with outlanders.  The map page 176 names three settlements each with populations of about 1,000: North Post, Queen's Post, Rich Post.  so there is not much room in these figures for other small settlements.  There is also a question as to whether Vendref are in smaller villages near these settlements.  [we need to investigate how this works.]

The Vendref are forbidden to worship Orlanth.  They do worship Ernalda, Barntar... and as I recall from another passage, Issaries.

More (rare) sources of conflict & adventure: Dragonewts hunting humans.  Carnivorous dinosaurs..

Edited April 25, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The Vendref are Orlanthi, enslaved  OR enserfed [which? There is a difference] not allowed to have weapons or ride horses. many of the Verndef meerchants.  the FHQ speaks for and is protector of the Vendref.  I don't see a Vendref population figure.

In Jeff's notes on the cults, look at the figures for Orlanth worshippers. That plus a likely equivalent number of Ernalda initiates will give you the approximate vendref population.

23 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The Vendref are forbidden to worship Orlanth.  They do worship Ernalda, Barntar... and as i recall from another passage, Issaries.

Superseded. Review Jeff's notes.

23 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The Vendref are Orlanthi, enslaved  OR enserfed [which? There is a difference] not allowed to have weapons or ride horses. many of the Verndef meerchants.  the FHQ speaks for and is protector of the Vendref. 

Also largely superseded. They are protected by the FHQ and are the farming population. Definitely not enslaved, and don't think enserfed is correct either. However, they don't rule. Perhaps more caste-like?

[Beoferret]

Saving runaway Vendref from Pure Horse People oppressors could be a fun adventure seed for PCs from outside the Grazelands, but maybe not one that's canonically supported right now. Though maybe a small band of bandits or PHP purists might try to recreate the old ways of Vendref serfdom in a remote area? And even if Grazelander culture hasn't been completely fleshed out, one could always look for inspiration from historic horse-focused cultures and myths in ways that could provide adventure scenes or seeds. Like, what about an annual gathering of clans that (similar to the Three Winds Festival), incorporates various competitions, like mounted archery, horse racing, etc. and is topped off by a stallion fight - the winner becoming a wyter or being sacrificed. Of course, not all goes well. Or one could take inspiration from Hrafnkel's Saga: a clan is in turmoil after someone accidentally broke a geas/taboo by unknowingly riding a horse dedicated to Yu-Kargazant and was killed for it. Possible revenge killings loom on the horizon unless the PCs can restore harmony.

Other ideas for possible Grazeland adventures:

1) PCs are hired to support a small caravan led by a merchant who (perhaps unknown to them) refuses to pay protection money to the PHP clans due to some past grievance. Opportunities for diplomacy and fightin'.

2) PCs have to deal with a vicious, corporeal horse-related spirit that only haunts areas a particular PHP clan frequents. While the spirit does prey on them, it primarily attacks non-PHP along their migration round. For some clan magic reason, they are unable to deal with it themselves and are not enthusiastic about asking other clans for help. The afflicted clan is thereby looking for outside help and/or assistance from discrete Grazelander adventurers.

3) Bandits (or just a disgruntled individual) have stolen some prize Goldeneyes. The majority of the clan's warriors/authorities can't take the time to do the job themselves (they're off to a very important hoedown), so it's up to the plucky adventurers to get those horses back. And perhaps not all is as it seems. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

If the Grazelanders actually do worship their horses then that takes care of one type of mobile shrine.  Hard to interpret in terms of RQ mechanics though.  Would the king stallion be or host a Wyter?   

This still doesn't cover Yu-Kargazant worship.  For some of this we might have to wait until the 2024 releases in the Cults of Runequest series.

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

Looking over Jeff's posts in those two documents:

the first one, March 11th 2023:

The population figures need some mental gymnastics to match what's in the Guide, but the big news is that the Vendref are about half the population.  Slightly smaller news, Jeff's urban population is 1,000 higher than the Guide. 

"Roughly 18,000 are Pure Horse People and another 18,000 are farmers. About 4000 people live in the three trading towns. Tensions between these groups get resolved by the Feathered Horse Queen."  That's 40,000, OK, but only if the townies are in addition to the two aforesaid groups.  And the guide told us many of the townies are pure horse People and many are Vendref.

Other figures from this:

Total adult population = 26,000

Cult breakdown, re-ordered to size instead of pantheon vertically, and stereotypically female / male horizontally

                                                Female    ?         Male

Ernalda                                     9250

Yelm                                                                  5000

Orlanth Thunderous (Barntar)                         4500

Other Lightbringers                            2000

Maran Gor + Babeester Gor     1575

Humakt                                                              1325

Seven Mothers                                  1325

Misc. smaller cults                             1725

Subtotals by sex                   10,825 -5,050 -  10,825

So  as I read it, the approx. 9.000 male Pure Horse People are slightly more than half Yelmites, and the other 4,000 are Humakti, Seven Mothers, and smaller cults.  It is ambiguous whether any of them have joined Orlanth.  But this implies an "other Lightbringer' contingent of at least 1,000.

Looking at the female population,  9,000 PHP and 9,000 plus  ?? Vendref- If we split the Ernaldans evenly between the two groups, and since the Vendref are not allowed weapons the PHP get all the -gor cultists - then the PHP female population is:

4635 Ernaldans,  1575 -Gor cults, leaving 2790??  Lots of Seven Mothers and smaller cults, in fact most of those!  And basically one out of every six PHP women you meet will be a -Gor Cultist. Maybe more.

 

Next subject:  Relations between the cowpokes and the farmers: 

".....Instead, the Feathered Horse Queen crushed the Pure Horse People ranchers and enforced a compromise both groups could deal with. The farmers trade fodder and food to the Pure Horse People and in exchange the herds are kept away from their farmlands in the valleys.

The Pure Horse People view the farmers as tenant peasants, the Orlanthi view themselves as free farmers who coexist with the Pure Horse People."

This leaves open to interpretation what the face to face relations are.  Given that the Pure Horse People view the Vendref as very inferior, my own interpretation is that the PHP not polite to the Vendref and the unarmed Vendref endure it.  Detail to be generated later.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
giving myself an edit, also typing

[RandomNumber]

There is a thread on Grazelander-Esrolian tensions in the 'Wine and Wild Horses' scenario outline in Velhara's Mirror in the JC.  This is a Beast Valley campaign, but the Grazelanders are one of the factions.

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The population figures need some mental gymnastics to match what's in the Guide, but the big news is that the Vendref are about half the population.  Slightly smaller news, Jeff's urban population is 1,000 higher than the Guide. 

Remember the Guide is 1621, RQG is 1625.

[DrGoth]

19 hours ago, jajagappa said:

In Jeff's notes on the cults, look at the figures for Orlanth worshippers. That plus a likely equivalent number of Ernalda initiates will give you the approximate vendref population.

Be careful comparing initiate numbers to population numbers. AFAIK, the former ignores children but the latter includes them.

[jajagappa]

39 minutes ago, DrGoth said:

Be careful comparing initiate numbers to population numbers. AFAIK, the former ignores children but the latter includes them.

I wasn't looking at overall population. The initiate numbers give us Orlanthi/Vendref adult population, and there are a lot of Orlanth worshippers.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 4/24/2023 at 2:20 AM, David Scott said:

Remember the Guide is 1621, RQG is 1625.

Yes, and 33% growth over 4 years is 8% a year in town populations..  This indicates either amazing fertility, perhaps  a wave of twin births-  or in-migration.  But

Who would immigrate to become a vendref? Your Sartarites are not likely to find it attractive to give up their Swords and Orlanth worship.  

Can you immigrate to join the Pure Horse People?  IMHO probably not often, though there might be an adoption rite.   But town life is not their style unless elderly or disabled.

This leaves outlanders coming to the towns for trade, but how many can the towns absorb?  Few unless the customers or state of prosperity change.  And we are just coming off the Great Winter, 1625 is not the culmination of a boom.

I may just postulate a mysterious magical wave of twin births.  Did someone heroquest to Uleria for fertility?

Edited April 25, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Fertility? And spelling

[hipsterinspace]

5 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Who would immigrate to become a vendref?

Nearby Esrolia had a rather large civil war take place, civil wars tend to create refugees.

19 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So  as I read it, the approx. 9.000 male Pure Horse People are slightly more than half Yelmites, and the other 4,000 are Humakti, Seven Mothers, and smaller cults.  It is ambiguous whether any of them have joined Orlanth.  But this implies an "other Lightbringer' contingent of at least 1,000.

Supposedly most of the Humakti are drawn from the Vendref. In the GM Adventures book there is a Pure Horse Orlanth cultist in Apple Lane, so I would presume some Orlanth presence among them too. Another deity that makes an appearance among the Pure Horse People in an adventure book is Polaris (in The Smoking Ruin), I would think his cult is a decent share of the miscellaneous group.

Edited April 24, 2023 by hipsterinspace

[Squaredeal Sten]

4 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

Nearby Esrolia had a rather large civil war take place, civil wars tend to create refugees.

Supposedly most of the Humakti are drawn from the Vendref. In the GM Adventures book there is a Pure Horse Orlanth cultist in Apple Lane, so I would presume some Orlanth presence among them too. Another deity that makes an appearance among the Pure Horse People in an adventure book is Polaris (in The Smoking Ruin), I would think his cult is a decent share of the miscellaneous group.

According to the guide the Vendref are not allowed tohave weapons.  How do Humakti function without a sword?

Edited April 25, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
typing

[Ironwall]

48 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

According to the guide the Vendref are not allowed tohave weapons.  How do Humakti function without a sword?

Exemptions granted to specific people. 

[hipsterinspace]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

According to the guide the Vendref are not allowed tohave weapons.  How do Humakti function without a sword?

They are the personal guardians of the Feathered Horse Queen, they also ride. They serve as the enforcers of the Queen's will and defenders of the Vendref.

I would guess that that's another section of the guide that has changed since publication, kind of like initiation being rare and illiteracy being strictly enforced among the Dara Happan peasantry.

[Squaredeal Sten]

7 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

They are the personal guardians of the Feathered Horse Queen, they also ride. They serve as the enforcers of the Queen's will and defenders of the Vendref.

I would guess that that's another section of the guide that has changed since publication, kind of like initiation being rare and illiteracy being strictly enforced among the Dara Happan peasantry.

So by this statement you are contradicting the comment above that for Grazelands i have what's necessary in RQiG, Ling of Sartar, and Guide to Glorantha.  So there is another necessary reference.

So where did you get this?

Edited April 25, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
KOS

[hipsterinspace]

6 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So where did you get this?

From the RQG core book, p. 114:

The vendref are not always complacent serfs, and sometimes serve their overlords as warriors or join invading armies, and have even moved en masse to a new location... The Pure Horse People must be careful how they treat the vendref, and their rule is far lighter than that of a slave and its owner.

From the next page, regarding the Feathered Horse Queen:

She is guarded by fanatical Humakti from the Hiia Swordsman subcult.

The Humakti Vendref, as referenced in the Well of Daliath link I posted upthread, follow Hiia Swordsman, a hero of Humakt who joined with the Feathered Horse Queen to serve her during her "revolution". The subcult who take their name from him remain the personal guardians of the Feathered Horse Queen, who serves as the protector of the Vendref as well as the queen of her people. This seems to be the most up to date reference for how their society actually fits together. The article even mentions that the Vendref have Orlanth Adventurous among them, again tied to the Feathered Horse Queen.