Demonic possession and exorcism

[StevenGEmsley]

Any good rules kicking around in any BRP iteration anywhere? Looking for a similar vibe to the classic Exorcist movie (but in late-medieval Europe)

Thanks in advance!

[NickMiddleton]

The BRP-UGE entry on Ghosts briefly sketches ghostly possession; Magic World has a more extensive set of entries for various spirits and the effects of possession by them, as does RQ (albeit that’s Gloranthan specific). I don’t recall any Exorcist-style demonic possession rules per se in BRP sources, but there might have been in a monograph, or in other D100 roll under sources. Stormbringer / Elric! demons weren’t handled that way alas.

I would start by closely reading the MW spirit rules, and then think about revisions that you would want to bring them more in line with your chosen influences. In MW spirits are highly focused (Fear spirit, madness spirit etc), with singular drives. A “demonic” possession would be more multi-faceted, a malevolent scheming, potentially quite cunning entity. IIRC there is always a sense in which the victim of possession is intrinsically valuable to the demon, but also that there can be wider aims of sowing mischief and undermining faith in those close to the possessed individual.

[StevenGEmsley]

That's a great start Nick, thank you.

Now to recall whether I have MW in pdf anywhere...

[StevenGEmsley]

Does anyone have any experience of Aquelarre? I seem to recall it's BRP based?

[Ian Absentia]

2 hours ago, StevenGEmsley said:

Does anyone have any experience of Aquelarre? I seem to recall it's BRP based?

The mechanics of Aquelarre are recognisably similar, but vary somewhat in scale.  Most importantly, though, the game features an abundance of information on the summoning of angelic, diabolic, and demonic powers, and there are rules for possession, both voluntary and involuntary.  You should be able to adapt what you find to BRP with some effort.

!i!

Edited June 23 by Ian Absentia

[Lofgeornost]

There are possession and exorcism rules, though not very extensive, in Mythic Babylon for Mythras. Given the cultural distance from Late Medieval Europe these likely wouldn't be particularly helpful.

I'm not sure if Deus Vult included such rules, but it might well have done, given its focus.

[Ethereal]

The Following is a discussion in Forums in general regards to your question. Hope this helps. 

 

[ThornPlutonius]

Mythras also offers rules for possession and exorcism in the Animism chapter.  Said rules are on p.140 of the 3rd Revision (2018, ISBN: 978-0-359-12582-1) book that I have in front of me.

[Dr_Zarnak]

William Barton wrote some rules for seances, spirits (dybukka), and possession, as part of the occult chapter in Cthulhu by Gaslight 2e, but they were left out of the final product because of space limitations. The material eventually appeared in Dragon magazine #139, in an article titled, “Speaking with the Spirits”.

[Lofgeornost]

I looked over some D100 games over the weekend with this in mind.

Aquelarre does have an exorcism ritual and a very extensive treatment of demons and other such spirits. There isn't much detail about what goes on during the exorcism ritual, which lasts 5 hours, though, so you would have to narrate that yourself and add any elements you wanted. The basic procedure, in game terms, is fairly simple: roll for success of the ritual, using the priest's Theology skill (-40 because it is a 3rd order ritual). Perhaps (this isn't really clear for this ritual) then the targeted demon gets (in effect) a 'saving throw'--if it rolls its Irrationality or under the ritual has no effect. Assuming the ritual did work, you then consult a table to see what the results were. The table depends on comparing the priest's Rationality score with the demon's Irrationality, and results vary from harms of various sorts to the exorcist to expulsion of the demon back to hell. The scores can be modified in various ways.

This might be hard to convert to other D100 systems because of its reliance on Rationality/Irrationality scores, which are an integral (and IMO wrong-headed) part of Aquelarre. It also does not really provide much in the way of 'spiritual combat' between the exorcist and demon; you can influence the outcome by preparing well, but it all comes down to a couple of die rolls and comparing some scores and modifiers.

Since @StevenGEmsley's original post mentioned a late-medieval setting, I thought the Renaissance system would be a good place to look. The free SRD does not include anything closer to exorcism than the 'dispel elemental' spell for alchemists. Mongoose Runequest, on which Renaissance was based, I makes Exorcism a Divine Spell, magnitude 3. Casting it requires a Lore (Theology) roll, like all Divine Spells; if it is cast successfully, the exorcist and the spirit engage in a series of opposed Persistence tests. The exorcist gets a 30% bonus and either party can spend Magic Points for a 10% bonus per magic point (but for one test only). When the exorcist has accumulated successes equal to the demon's POW, it is cast out of the body and cannot re-enter it for a period equal to the exorcist's POW in days. Presumably, if the exorcist fails one of the Persistence tests, the exorcism ends in failure at that point, though the description isn't entirely clear on that.

[StevenGEmsley]

Funnily enough, it is for an upcoming Renaissance game - see my recent review of the Renaissance: 1520 setting in that subforum!

Mechanics-wise, if there was no great existing system to steal, I was planning on adapting the mechanics for dispelling ghosts from the Renaissance Creatures chapter, but I do like the sound of the Mongoose RQ rule, which I'm sure I have somewhere.

[StevenGEmsley]

Also, thanks to all respondents for taking the time to look things up for me!

[Lofgeornost]

14 minutes ago, StevenGEmsley said:

Funnily enough, it is for an upcoming Renaissance game - see my recent review of the Renaissance: 1520 setting in that subforum!

Mechanics-wise, if there was no great existing system to steal, I was planning on adapting the mechanics for dispelling ghosts from the Renaissance Creatures chapter, but I do like the sound of the Mongoose RQ rule, which I'm sure I have somewhere.

I thought it might be for Renaissance, based on that very interesting review you wrote. You could combine the MRQ approach with the Renaissance ghost-dispelling one, too. The Renaissance system gives you an opposed test of the exorcist's righteousness vs. the ghost's persistence, and different effects for different levels of success. The MRQ system provides a way to make the exorcism cumulative, taking several 'rounds' (or hours, or whatever) to succeed or fail.

If I were designing a subsystem for this in a c. 1500 European setting, I think I'd want to include the following:

• The ability for the exorcist to boost the chance of success by using things like holy water, sacred relics, and/or making the demoniac wear or touch holy items, like a priest's vestments. The place where the ceremony is done could also have an effect--better on sanctified ground, perhaps best near the tomb of a saint credited with exorcism miracles.
• The possibility that the ceremony leads to physical damage to either the possessed or the exorcist. The demoniac might attack the exorcist physically (though this seems to have been rare), or the exorcist and/or his helpers could be injured trying to restrain the demoniac as he or she thrashed around or (in theory, anyway), levitated. And the possessed might exhibit inhuman strength. Likewise, demoniacs could be unwittingly hurt in fighting against restraints. Some exorcists might intentionally strike the possessed.
• Dialogue between the exorcist and the demon. Of course, the ritual involves the exorcist speaking to and commanding the demon, but the demon should answer back. We tend to think of exorcism as casting out of demons, but the Greek roots from which the word comes actually imply something like 'forcing to speak under oath.' It was standard to ask the demon what its name was, how it had come into the victim, and how it could be removed. An exorcism was counted partially successful if it forced the demon to answer such questions. And answers to them could increase the chance of success in further rounds of the process.
• The idea that there are varying degrees of success in exorcism. The goal of course is to remove the demon and have it never return. But some possessed people went through repeated exorcisms, some giving only partial relief, before full freedom from possession was gained. This could be reflected in game terms either by rules that say the demon must leave for a specified period of time (but then must return), or perhaps through a mechanism where, as the exorcism reduces a demon's POW (or whatever) it becomes less able to affect the victim. Push the POW down far enough and the demon is still there, but has little or no influence until it regains POW.

[Mugen]

On 6/23/2023 at 10:32 AM, NickMiddleton said:

(...) as does RQ (albeit that’s Gloranthan specific).

What makes RQ possession so uniquely gloranthan ?

I've read it a long time ago in RQ3 and I don't remember it very well, but it didn't strike me as something that couldn't work in other settings.

IIRC, both possession from the spirit and exorcism by the shaman/exorcist required a Spirit Combat.

[NickMiddleton]

11 minutes ago, Mugen said:

What makes RQ possession so uniquely gloranthan ?

I've read it a long time ago in RQ3 and I don't remember it very well, but it didn't strike me as something that couldn't work in other settings.

IIRC, both possession from the spirit and exorcism by the shaman/exorcist required a Spirit Combat.

Was more thinking of the approach and nature of Spirits in RQG, as that’s the RQ version I’ve read most recently and which is easily available. The RQ3 take was more generic iirc, but is out of print. My vague recollection is that the MW rules are based on the RQ3 rules, but Id have to double check to be sure.

[SDLeary]

15 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

Was more thinking of the approach and nature of Spirits in RQG, as that’s the RQ version I’ve read most recently and which is easily available. The RQ3 take was more generic iirc, but is out of print. My vague recollection is that the MW rules are based on the RQ3 rules, but Id have to double check to be sure.

There are spirit types that were pulled from RQ3, but the base Sorcery rules are all from Elric and Bronze Grimoire. AFAICT, there are no rules specifically for exorcism. Exorcism, as a spell, appears in Advanced Sorcery under Necromancy.

Specifically:

• Requires two hours to cast
• POW vs POW roll on the resistance table at the end, the spirits POW being the passive value
• Concentration must be maintained
• If roll fails, a strong spirit may then try to possess the caster

SDLeary

[soltakss]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:57 AM, StevenGEmsley said:

Any good rules kicking around in any BRP iteration anywhere? Looking for a similar vibe to the classic Exorcist movie (but in late-medieval Europe)

Merrie England: Robyn Hode had them. I treated them as being an opposed contest with the back and forth representing the exorcism from The Exorcist, and others. I am not sure if other people find them to be good, but they worked for me.