Weekly minor holy days

[Malin]

I wondered if anybody had listed which god/desses have weekly minor holy days?

I know Windsday (Orlanth), Clayday (Ernalda, Babeester Gor, Eiritha),  Wildday (Issaries, Ty Kora Tek)

Uleria is special. I could have sworn I read a correction somewhere that Yelmalio is supposed to have one every Fireday. Or was that Yelm?

Are there any others that people know of?

 

[Byll]

Waterday is a minor holy day for Heler (Lightbringers)
Mastakos's holy days correspond to those of the Dominant deity, e.g Orlantha or Ernalda (Lightbringers)
Ty Kora Tek is propitiated each Wildday by earth cultists (Earth Goddesses)

[Rodney Dangerduck]

When I'm GM, we skip these.  Why allow certain select cults access to ~28 more rune points a season?

[Squaredeal Sten]

9 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

When I'm GM, we skip these.  Why allow certain select cults access to ~28 more rune points a season?

Because the game world is so much more than whether one player has an advantage.

[David Scott]

Minor Holy Days are a problem as they take up whole day if attended, and so directly reduces adventuring time (major holy days don't have to count as they can happen outside adventure time. I'd only let assistant priests or shaman attend them if needed. Rune levels are more restricted if part of the hierarchy. 

Don't forget that their need to be enough initiates or lay members to be present. So Heler is unlikely to celebrate minor water days regularly.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Deleted my post, it wasn't adding to the conversation.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Rodney Dangerduck
deleted

[Byll]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:48 PM, David Scott said:

Don't forget that their need to be enough initiates or lay members to be present. So Heler is unlikely to celebrate minor water days regularly.

Maybe more often in Dark Season and particularly Fire Season when Heler's farmer lay-members are less likely to be needed in the fields ?

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:40 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Because the game world is so much more than whether one player has an advantage.

There are two things :

- the holy day is important for the background, I agree with you

- the holiday as, from a game design perspective, a rune points generator. For this, I agree with @Rodney Dangerduck

 

then I apply things differently:

- if it is an adventure per season, pc start the adventure with full rp. Of course is one player wants to « burn » some to for any background/social rp that is allowed (for example a farmer who wants bless crops or an artist who has a big show for the court outside of any scenario)

Then during the play there is an holy day, I let the players decide if they use their time for devotion or not

 

- when the adventure is longer than a season they can replenish one per season during the holy day they want (with the worship roll, adding stress)

’it could be explained as the rune pool represents the pc capacity to open the gate to the other world per season and not the god’s capacity to answer when the gate is opened.

Let’s say that if you have more than one pool you have different gates to open but, at the end of the day, there is only one source : the POW you sacrifice

that is just a house rule

[Squaredeal Sten]

Lately in my Zoom game we have been rinning between Korolstead and the Feathered Horse Queen and Colymar.  The goal is to ckear Korolstead and establish a Colymar colony.  As you might guess it has been a tremendius Rune  point sink.  Running with the PCs approx 10 game years from initiation, they are pretty powerful.  A minor holy day did not fill up their Rune points even  for the cult in question,, it only gives a D6 or D6+1,  - so from the viewpoint of my oarticular game it was not over powered.  And this has been a multiple season adventure.  I just run the calendar in accord with what happens in game, not forcing season breaks.

[Joerg]

IMG weekly services are held, but they tend to be small affairs without much of a crowd. If an adventurer wants to make use of a weekly service to refill their rune point pool, they had better provide sacrificial beasts, food and drink out of their pocket to draw enough of a crowd to make things happen.

Yes, there is a possibility to hold a field service using sanctify, but I would give that some hefty malus on the worhsip unless one of the player characters or sidekicks is qualified for leading a congregation. (Massive expenditure of magic points can make up for that, but who is to say a field service will remain unmolested if meajor festivals need to provide guardians?)

[Akhôrahil]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:40 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Because the game world is so much more than whether one player has an advantage.

It also does things to the world when people in it can spend Rune Points like they’re candy. If the average initiate has 3 Rune Points and can spend and regain them weekly rather than seasonally, it does things. You won’t need professional healers for anything but diseases when a Heal Body spell is almost trivially available.

[Malin]

22 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

If the average initiate has 3 Rune Points

I don't think the average initiate has three rune points. The starting player character has that, and they are decidedly not average in RQ:G (unlike some earlier editions). I think I've seen it mentioned that most initiates only have a single rune point unless they go deeply devout.

---

That being said, I do feel that in Glorantha, diseases are more dreaded than injuries and wounds.

Most families will have access to a first aid kit (heal spirit magic), at least at a neighbor's house if not their own.

Most villages have access to their local health center (the Ernalda temple, or the wise woman with a strong healing spirit) where they can fix broken bones, that guy who cut himself with an axe when he chopped wood, or someone who got mauled by a bear.

For diseases, you need to go to the hospital (the Chalana Arroy) or call for a traveling doctor (a healer or a shaman) to drive the spirits out. So yes, that is a bigger production, and something people would fear more. Not the least because it usually affects a lot of people at once, and costs add up.

However, it is also important to remember that the  Ernalda temple has a lot of other things to spend their rune points, I don't think injuries are even at the top of a list. An Ernalda priestess have to focus on blessing the fields, taking care of pregnancies and the like. Sure, she might have access to Heal Body, but to use it might mean she would be late with blessing that new field, there's divination to find a good place for a new building, and there's a pregnancy that looks bad, and a delivery where she will need to help out. Once you start adding things up, the rune point pool of a small Ernalda temple is barely enough for what their core work is. I see the weekly minor holy day as something used in busy times. It is important during spring (to get rune points back to keep blessing fields), and especially during emergencies (two bad pregnancies, and now three men got badly hurt in clan strife? Ernalda help us...) Ernalda has so much work to do in daily life she might need that minor holy day...

And that's not taking in account wars and battles. Even a small-scale battle with a band of tusk riders might mean a handful of badly injured people (very few have spirit magic strong enough to put back limbs).

But yeah, it is really fascinating to think of how different (and similar) health and healing are in Glorantha. Magic can be seen a bit like modern medicine, people there do have theoretical access to what amounts to antibiotics and surgery. However, they might not have access to it where and when they get hurt, and they might not be close to the top of the list of important things to spend rune points on. Would they really take possible healing away from a heavily pregnant lady? Or risk a worse harvest? No, better send them to the Chalana Arroy, that's their sole job.

---

But, I also think that how much minor holy days affect things depends on play style, what cults people belong to, and how important you want rune magic to be. In our group the Yelmalio Light Servant has invested heavily in his rune point pool because he can only regain them once a month, AND he has access to heal body and likes to save 3 points for that for emergencies when they are adventuring. During more quiet times he spends that pool fast on bless crops... On the other hand, our Babeester Gor has theoretical access to a minor holy day through Ernalda, and has a smaller rune point pool. She's invested a lot of her power on hero-related gifts instead, which means she runs dry faster. Sure, she can regain things once a week with effort, but since she's mostly drained during combat,  that's a hard thing to schedule around one battle a week. we have an Orlanthi who is a fish out of water in our setting, and sure, there's a minor holy day each wind day, but good luck trying to find an Orlanthi temple anywhere, so it's a huge production to get rune points back even on a seasonal holy day. He's very stingy with using his.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Malin

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Malin said:

I don't think the average initiate has three rune points.

If you look at the published setting material, they typically do. Guards, soldiers and militiamen commonly have 3, as well as the ”Typical Citizen” in the Starter Set.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Malin]

8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

If you look at the published setting material, they typically do. Guards, soldiers and militiamen commonly have 3, as well as the ”Typical Citizen” in the Starter Set.

I was going more on what Jeff Richard said here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/initiates-and-lay-members/

"A general rule of thumb is that most adults are initiated into a cult. That’s a very fuzzy rule admittedly, but generally true.

Now mechanically, that may not be the most useful way of presenting a NPC (and many initiates probably don’t actually have more than a single Rune Point)."

 

[Akhôrahil]

14 minutes ago, Malin said:

INow mechanically, that may not be the most useful way of presenting a NPC (and many initiates probably don’t actually have more than a single Rune Point)."

I can believe this if perhaps 10-30% counts as ”many”. If it’s suppposed to be the majority, then the published material just isn’t written that way.

[French Desperate WindChild]

47 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

the published material just isn’t written that way.

that's what I think.

Seems to me that the material makes the same "mistake" than what we do often (I include myself) : seeing the "player book/rule"  as the "world rule"

the world would be too inconsistant if we follow  only the rules for everything (too too many enchantments seeing the cost, too too many war mounts seeing how easy it is to breed and train beasts, too too many people thanks to bless crops, too many resurrections, with the reusable spell  etc...)

 

Of course we have explanations. For example, white healers cannot resurrect everyone because their rune pool is used to heal wounds and diseases. But... is there any rule explaining that pc must roll every season a d100 to determinate if they are injured just because their occupation, their life, etc... No. Does that means there are no accident for npc ? I don't think so 🙂

 

 

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Malin said:

Ernalda priestess[es] have to focus on blessing the fields …
Magic can be seen a bit like modern medicine, people there do have theoretical access to what amounts to antibiotics and surgery.

So except when it is “just” a ritual — i.e. there aren’t millions of joules of magical energy crackling about the place; it is not meant as a put-down — I wonder whether we can see crop-blessing magic as like modern chemical-heavy intensive agriculture.

Perhaps there are Gloranthan organic farming and biodynamic agriculture movements who point to the Wastes — as Genertela’s Dust Bowl — crying, “You fools, can’t you see what you are doing?” (The biodynamic types who dare to mention the phases of the Moon are taking their lives in their hands.)

Another bunch of dissidents has it that the soil is just fine and all this agricultural magic is an Earth cults protection racket: “Do the ritual, give up the POW, or we will blast your herds and crops.”

[Malin]

I definetly see Bless Crops and the like as modern intensive agriculture! In my glorantha it's that kind of ritual magic that enables the population surplus, and avoids things like exhausted dirt, having to let fields lay fallow, or slash and burn agriculture. Whether it leeches the land of something more vital is an interesting question, I can certainly see it being debate on the topic!

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Malin said:

For diseases, you need to go to the hospital (the Chalana Arroy) or call for a traveling doctor (a healer or a shaman) to drive the spirits out. So yes, that is a bigger production, and something people would fear more. Not the least because it usually affects a lot of people at once, and costs add up.

Makes me wonder whether ancestral spirits could be sent to possess disease victims to drive out the disease spirits by Daka Fal practitioners?

 

8 hours ago, Malin said:

However, it is also important to remember that the  Ernalda temple has a lot of other things to spend their rune points, I don't think injuries are even at the top of a list. An Ernalda priestess have to focus on blessing the fields, taking care of pregnancies and the like. Sure, she might have access to Heal Body, but to use it might mean she would be late with blessing that new field, there's divination to find a good place for a new building, and there's a pregnancy that looks bad, and a delivery where she will need to help out.

There is a good chance that Ernaldan healers prioritize the mother's health over that of the unborn or sickly child. Bless Pregnancy definitely is a drain on the Ernaldan rune pool, but probably used sparingly by rune levels.

The Ernaldan one-use version of resurrection magic Seal Soul (by way of the Good Shepherd) is a drain on Ernaldan rune points, too (also with the almost obligatory "Restore Health" for the lost CON, too).

 

IMG, most NPCs have three rune points or more like most player characters, but will have used one or two prior to the encounter, whether for a communal Cloud Call or similar productive tasks. In a combat environment, they might also have minor wounds keeping their hit point total in a location below their maximum possible score. While spirit magic heal is ubiquitious, so are opportunites to spend MP in a hostile environment, and at least my characters have been known to tough it out if they only lost one or two location hit points in favor of having their magic battery somewhat filled for upcoming challenges. (My CON 19 Ernaldan confused the GM big way by shrugging off the three points of excess damage from a parried critical hit to her leg, being a lot more worried about the sorry state of her shield after that experience...)

 

For a (non-Gloranthan) game of RQ3, I played the only RuneQuest priest in my entire career of playing RuneQuest. 90% temple time meant officiating at minor worship rites all the time, and in that game there was a "1 day in the temple for recovery of 1 rune point" for priests without the need to attend special days. My GM usually allowed me a reasonably full armament of rune points (allocated in specific spells) on the start of an adventure, depending on how much time we had between adventuring or travel days.

 

8 hours ago, Malin said:

But yeah, it is really fascinating to think of how different (and similar) health and healing are in Glorantha. Magic can be seen a bit like modern medicine, people there do have theoretical access to what amounts to antibiotics and surgery. However, they might not have access to it where and when they get hurt, and they might not be close to the top of the list of important things to spend rune points on. Would they really take possible healing away from a heavily pregnant lady? Or risk a worse harvest? No, better send them to the Chalana Arroy, that's their sole job.

 

There is even more of a rune point economy to Chalana Arroy healers than there is to Ernaldans, as there are rather few of them. While they tend to receive significant support by lay worshipers to bolster out their temple sizes, there is a huge demand for their services as well as their charity, easily increasing the rune point prices on occasion..

Ernaldan initiates prioritize kin for their uses of Healing (dealing with injuries mainly). Heal Body restores blood loss and indirect damage, but no characteristic loss, but that Restore spell family is pretty available, too.

Permanent loss of limbs without application to magical healing happens to people without (bloodline) kin and without liquid assets. (Still doesn't quite explain why the Gimpy's proprietors chose purchasing the bar over regrowing their legs, but maybe they fell afoul of Seal Wound.)

 

8 hours ago, Malin said:

But, I also think that how much minor holy days affect things depends on play style,

Definitely. I like to run my ongoing travel quests or sandbox explorations without season-long intervals between segments, and quite a few of the published scenarios tend to chain scenarios without regard to holy days. I also have to learn to provide plot and scenario hooks with less of a sense of urgency for the "once a season" style of adventuring.

 

Spirit cult membership can spread the rune point pool out to more (but also rarer) opportunities to regain some rune magic. The jury might still be in session whether Lightning Boy rune points can be regained in Orlanth services.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Going slightly OT, but I strongly believe that most NPC initiates should have 2-3 rune points

A young man, SIZ 12, joins Orlanth.  He "pays" 1 POW.  For just one more POW (o.k., maybe 2), he can fly.  One of the great dreams of mankind through thousands of years, available for 1 POW?  Who isn't going to do this?
 

A young woman joins Ernalda.  She pays 1 POW.  For just one more POW she can cast Bless Pregnancy.  Unlike real world women for thousands of years, she won't die during childbirth.  Who isn't going to do this?  Well, maybe she waits until she becomes pregnant to sacrifice the second POW.  And maybe a friend can cast the spell for her.  But it still seems like a very likely thing spell to obtain by the tie she is in her mid-20s.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

A young man, SIZ 12, joins Orlanth.  He "pays" 1 POW.  For just one more POW (o.k., maybe 2), he can fly.  One of the great dreams of mankind through thousands of years, available for 1 POW?  Who isn't going to do this?

the majority of Sartarite men are initiates of  Orlanth. If I follow your way, it would mean that all battles against Sartarite should be on air: being able to fight in 3 dimensions when their opponents (aka lunars, trolls*  ..) only fight in 2d is an advantage (**) during fight or to prepare the battle (to place bowmen and other skirmishers in better position for example).

I think you demonstrate what I say: if we follow the rules for anybody, you are right, all the orlanthi army should be able to fly.

There is no story about full (fool ?) flying army I believe?

Or another question: if everyone is able to fly, why do they use walls around their cities (I mean, when Sartar arrived and built the towns, the majority of neighbours -Tarsh, Heortland,...- were orlanthi too. Then the need of very good walls seems weird)

 

In the same way, a clan may choose to use teleportation and not fly. Then it is too easy to reach the leaders / specific units behind the front line / shield wall (and no risk of dismiss then). That is not dishonorable if you attack your opponent leader in front of him and let the mass behind you

 

 

* except giants insects for trollkin, moons (?) and things like that but Sartarite have the wind with them in addition

* * ok there is dismiss spell and friends but that can be "blocked" too

Edited September 16, 2023 by French Desperate WindChild

[Squaredeal Sten]

6 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

......

A young woman joins Ernalda.  She pays 1 POW.  For just one more POW she can cast Bless Pregnancy.  Unlike real world women for thousands of years, she won't die during childbirth.  Who isn't going to do this?  Well, maybe she waits until she becomes pregnant to sacrifice the second POW.  And maybe a friend can cast the spell for her.  But it still seems like a very likely thing spell to obtain by the tie she is in her mid-20s.

On the other hand Bless Crops meams you don't starve in famine times.  This is good every year, not just years she is pregnant.   Who would pass that up for your first spell?  Eating is so fundamental.

Choices, choices!

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Ernaldan one-use version of resurrection magic Seal Soul (by way of the Good Shepherd)

This was changed to via Jolly Fat Man in the Earth Cults book, btw.

[Akhôrahil]

I agree with the reasoning that getting up to at least 3 Rune Points will be very common because it’s clearly worth it. Sure, POW is nice, but two points less doesn’t make a world of difference (and this is assuming NPCs don’t get as much POW gain as PCs), but 3 Rune Points is pretty mindblowing. You can be able to heal yourself perfectly (Heal Body), have a decent chance of taking out any regular enemy combatant in one magical blow (Lightning 3 or Thunderbolt), and your pick of flight or teleportation. It’s very hard to argue that you’d rather have two more POW, even as an  NPC.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Richard S.]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:39 AM, Malin said:

I could have sworn I read a correction somewhere that Yelmalio is supposed to have one every Fireday.

Dunno when this was added to the Q&A but I can't say I'm complaining. He also had a weekly Fireday celebration in his old CoP writeup.

Yelm, funnily enough, still doesn't have a weekly day, though maybe that's a symptom of him being more distant.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Richard S.