Caladralander Shamanic Traditions

[ZedAlpha]

So the preparation for my FATE game set in Caladraland (talked about here:

) is going forward, and one of the players expressed interest in playing a shaman. I have a bit of information on that from the Glorantha Sourcebook (which I admit is sometimes a bit dense and bounces off my unmedicated ADHD like you wouldn't believe), and have picked up from Well of Daliath and wiki entries that most Orlanthi cultures (like the Caladralanders technically are) have access to the Kolating and Earth Witch spiritual traditions.

Only problem is that I'm not sure precisely what they'd entail. Are they organized cults like the theistic religions, or are those more like...less-formal magical learning practices to teach the few kids who initiate with an active Spirit rune? Would Caladraland's primary deities being Fire-aligned affect those traditions at all, or give them access to more Solar-aligned traditions?

Is there enough room here for me to come up with one on my own? If that's the case, what details should I try to cover when I do?

[Richard S.]

(I'm speaking from an RQG perspective but it should be easily adaptable). I believe that Kolat and Earth Witch can be approached either as independent spirit cults or as shaman paths within Orlanth and Ernalda's (or maybe Asrelia's idr) cults, respectively. A spirit cult is basically a shaman going out into the spirit world and making a deal with a powerful entity there, where they get worship and the shaman gets some limited rune magic. A shaman path is a formal place for shamans in a rune cult's hierarchy, like the Golden Bow for Yelm, with better access to powers but also more restrictions.

Shamans are naturally independent of cults, except for maybe Horned Man. Most shamans are part of one or more, and usually an apprentice will go the way of their master, but it's not required like it is for priests. In Caladraland most shamans will probably be part of the Daka Fal cult if I had to guess, but I'm not gonna try and give estimates for what spirit cults might be around given how flexible they can be. Earth Witch definitely might be there given the proximity of Esrolia, but I wouldn't expect much Kolat due to the air gods being less popular in fire country.

What cult a prospective shaman is raised in probably depends entirely on what shaman found and recruited them. I don't think the Caladralanders as a whole would have a formal method for finding and raising them, given that they have well established rune priesthoods for their spiritual needs. If a kid with a dormant Fetch isn't picked out by the local shaman, they might go their entire lives without knowing what they could have been.

[ZedAlpha]

Any concrete information on the Earth Witch and Kolat traditions I could look up?

[Richard S.]

1 hour ago, ZedAlpha said:

Any concrete information on the Earth Witch and Kolat traditions I could look up?

They've got small entries in the Sourcebook and Prosopaedia, Kolat is an associate of Orlanth (providing Bind Wind), and Earth Witch is mentioned as an associate of Eiritha (providing summon, command, and dismiss earth elemental), but there's not much recent. Kolat got a writeup in the HQ2 Sartar Companion, and there were some online writeups for their HQ1 traditions, but all those are likely to be superseded once the Spirits book comes out (though that won't be for a while). I think the HQ1 versions are in a chunk of HQ material I archived in the forum download section, but I'd have to check. There doesn't even seem to be anything in the Well.

Edit:
Found them:

Kolat and Serdrodosa will be what you want.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Richard S.

[ZedAlpha]

Neat, thank you! From there I can probably come up with something that works for the player. They're Indigenous, and an actual like...doctoral-studying scholar of real world animistic and shamanic traditions across the world. For all that they like playing around with fantasy, they want this bit to at least feel authentic to them, so I think having an idea of what the fiction is trying to go for can help them out a lot with that.

[hipsterinspace]

Veskarthan/Lodril’s son, Oakfed, actually has a pretty important spirit cult in Prax and elsewhere. He’s the great spirit of wildfires and would be known to many shamans. In Prax he’s a friend to Waha, but he also does his own thing, he is a wildfire after all. He appears in the RQG core book as an example of a spirit cult. Even though Lodril doesn’t have defined cult shamans, there’s nothing to stop a Horned Man shaman from joining the cult and connecting with Lodril both as the great spirit who lives in/is The Vent, and as a figure from the god time with deep secrets for heroes.

[ZedAlpha]

Oh right, Oakfed! Completely forgot about them. Y'know, now that I think about it, a Caladralander spirit tradition that involves talking to the Lowfires and the various "minor" volcanos or volcanic hotspots around the peninsula could work, I think. Given that Caladra and Aurelion share their runes, Aurelion was probably a Solar/Fire Tribe god before the God Learners got to him, and there's an established official shamanic society that's part of Solar worship (unless I misremember some hasty far-too-late-at-night research on this since I made this thread), I could see that sort of being translated to the Volcano Twins' combined cult.

Maybe Caladra and Aurelion have an associated sort-of-combined Lowfires/Earth Witch cult. The Warm Earth Society, maybe, to go with the Warm Earth Alliance? I don't know if I'm even being coherent right now and should probably sleep, but the idea is sticking with me.

[EricW]

The way I think of Shamen, a shaman is like someone who spends all their time looking at Tik Tok or youtube and posting comments to friends while walking down the street. They barely have time to learn physical skills because they're always messaging people. Occasionally they start babbling about some video they saw, which means absolutely nothing to anyone else around them because nobody else has seen the video.

But boy are they well informed about esoteric stuff, so if the crops start withering, or someone has a sore which won't heal, the guy or girl with the mobile phone has access to the solution. Or perhaps the video they watched was total nonsense published by scammers. 

[Nick Brooke]

6 minutes ago, EricW said:

The way I think of Shamen, a shaman is like someone who spends all their time looking at Tik Tok or youtube and posting comments to friends while walking down the street…

Can I share this insight (whole post, not just that excerpt) with the RuneQuest group over on Facebook? I think it’s very helpful, and more people should see it. Full attribution to “EricW from BRP Central” or whatever name you’d prefer to go by. Or please do it yourself, if you’re a member over there.

[EricW]

34 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Can I share this insight (whole post, not just that excerpt) with the RuneQuest group over on Facebook? I think it’s very helpful, and more people should see it. Full attribution to “EricW from BRP Central” or whatever name you’d prefer to go by. Or please do it yourself, if you’re a member over there.

EricW is good - thanks, flattered 🙂

[Malin]

3 hours ago, EricW said:

The way I think of Shamen, a shaman is like someone who spends all their time looking at Tik Tok or youtube and posting comments to friends while walking down the street.

This was by far the best shaman description I have ever seen and describes the shaman in our campaign perfectly. I love it.

[Nick Brooke]

You're doing numbers over there, @EricW! I do think it's a shame when great ideas only get shared in this forum (although of course I appreciate that some people have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to use Facebook he said quickly).

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

Are they organized cults like the theistic religions, or are those more like...less-formal magical learning practices to teach the few kids who initiate with an active Spirit rune? Would Caladraland's primary deities being Fire-aligned affect those traditions at all, or give them access to more Solar-aligned traditions?

Is there enough room here for me to come up with one on my own? If that's the case, what details should I try to cover when I do?

Generally, shamanism would not follow organized lines. There will be a shaman plus some number of apprentices plus those who come to the shaman with offerings in return for blessings, curses, and the like. 

(No one would have an active Spirit rune until they are dead and no longer have a physical form.)

In Caladraland, I'd expect two shamanic traditions: Earth Witch and a Fire-oriented one, probably centered on Oakfed.  Kolating traditions may exist closer to the Orlanthi Manirian lands.

It's useful I think to know that in Dara Happa, Oakfed is also the pure fire (Enverinus) that carries prayers and offerings from mortals to the gods.

[Nick Brooke]

37 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

In Caladraland, I'd expect two shamanic traditions: Earth Witch and a Fire-oriented one, probably centered on Oakfed.  Kolating traditions may exist closer to the Orlanthi Manirian lands.

"Earth, Wind and Fire." Catchy slogan.

[ZedAlpha]

now I'm talking with the potential shaman player about all this, and they do like the idea of Oakfed and other fire spirits being the primary Caladralander spiritual contacts, given their reliance on slash-and-burn agriculture and the need to keep (artificial) wildfires under control. The fact that Caladra and Aurelion mess with the kinda-sorta-gender-essentialist feel of Earth and Fire magic as well, and how they share Earth and Fire between them might mean that the Earth Witch tradition could easily mix with the fire shamans too. So like...

Caladralander shamans as weird wildfire alchemists that people are wary of, but recognize a societal need for? Gender-role muddling? Oakfed being seen as one of the useful lowfires in this land, as opposed to just the scary wildfire demon that he is in other countries? Practically all writes itself. I love it. Thanks, folks!

[Richard S.]

Another interesting fact about Oakfed is that he's the god of sacrifice, the sacred fire that sends offerings to heaven (thus why he can sometimes grant Cremate Dead). IIRC the Dara Happans even have a small priesthood for him in that role, under the name Enverinus.

Also, while he gives the power to Create Wildfires, stopping them isn't something that really interests him...

[ZedAlpha]

Yeah, I saw that he was the god of sacrificial fires up there, very interesting. And yeah, he wouldn't be interested in stopping wildfires, so that's why I'd imagine you'd need shamans or priests to bargain/cajole/beg him to stop.

[David Scott]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:10 AM, EricW said:

The way I think of Shamen, a shaman is like someone who spends all their time looking at Tik Tok or youtube and posting comments to friends while walking down the street. They barely have time to learn physical skills because they're always messaging people. Occasionally they start babbling about some video they saw, which means absolutely nothing to anyone else around them because nobody else has seen the video.

But boy are they well informed about esoteric stuff, so if the crops start withering, or someone has a sore which won't heal, the guy or girl with the mobile phone has access to the solution. Or perhaps the video they watched was total nonsense published by scammers. 

Interestingly in real world shamanism it's the opposite. Shaman practice only within strict boundaries. When not within ritual (travelling to the spirit world, teaching magic, etc) the spend most of their time preparing their work and training others. However there maybe spirits not directly under the control of the shaman interacting with them, that for reasons they haven't banished (you don't want this as a shaman as it interferes with real life). If you have access to ye olde publication Avalon Hill's Heroes #10 (final issue), it was captured perfectly in Tips For Shamans by Forrest Johnson. This is by far the best RuneQuest article on shaman, here's a relevant snippit

Quote

Reserved and taciturn. Shamans have no time for social niceties. They tend to be loners. ("I don't believe we have been introduced." "Huh.")

Uncivilised. Shamans come from Primitive, Nomadic or Barbaric societies. Civilised people will find them to be uncouth. ("This is a chair. While you are in my house, you will sit on it. not on the floor." " Huh. Town people strange.")

Fanatic. Belief is central to a shaman's work. He believes in himself and he expects others to believe as well. Whatever opinion a shaman holds, he holds strongly. ("That skin was very valuable" You can'l stay here if you insist on burning my trophies."' "You no kill snow cat! This bad medicine!")

Preoccupied. Shamans have their eyes on the spirit world and often pay little attention to mundane activities. (""Can't you do some- thing? The house is on fire. stones are pouring in the Windows, and all you do is SqUdt in the corner mumbling. " " No bother now. Me talk spirits.")

Stoic, fatalistic. Shamans regularly see things that would terrify an ordinary person, This tends to make them indifferent to worldly perils. ("Surely you don't mean to challenge a great troll? He's over twice your size!" "Huh. Troll big body, little spirit. Shaman little body, great spirit.")

Mysterious, unpredictable. Shamans seldom bother to explain their actions, They live in a different world, and by a different set of rules, than the rest of humanity. Also, many shamans deliberately surround themselves with mystery in order to enhance their reputations. ("But what did you do that so frightened a Death Lord?" "He scare. He know my medicine stronger than his medicine.")

A shaman may not have all of these traits but he is likely to have several of them.

It also has an excellent depiction of Leona (stats, spirits and background), a Praxian Basmoli shaman haunted by her dead family and children.

Quote

Leona lives half of her existence on the spirit plane, like all good shamans. This means she often acts in ways that seem insane. Take this simple conversation for example:

• MOROKANTH For you, only 600 lunars. Such a deal!
• BABOON: Snort!
• LEONA: (mumbles, looks around vaguely): Uh...wait... yes... no.. huh .

The conversation above is what is heard by all. That which follows is what Leona hears.

• MOROKANTH: For you, only 600 lunars. Such a deal!
• BABOON. Snort!
• ORNE: What's happening? (Bound ghost of an ancient Elvish shaman)
• LEONA Uh ..
• ANOEL: Some Morokanths are selling a trollkin. (Leona's fetch)
• ENSCATHA: Idiot! (Ghost of Leona's grandfather's wife, a once powerful shaman)
• (Ayahla makes an impolite gesture at Ensctha, who swipes at her.) (Ayahla (friendly) is the ghost of Leona's eldest daughter, an assistant shaman)
• LEONA: Wait..
• ORNE: Trollkinsl We don't want a trollkin.
• LEONA: Yes.
• SAIDO: These Morokanth look like monsters. Skrag them (Leona's allied spirit,  a long dead Basmoli hero from Pamaltela)
• LEONA: No..
• BALK: I think we should... (Intellect spirit - this is RQ3)
• ANOEL: Slud is watching. (Slud is one of three malign Broo ghosts, looking to make Leona's life difficult)
• LEONA: Huh.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

This might be a tad silly but... Shargash/Tolat/Jagrekriand in addition to being gods of warfare are also mythically associated specifically with slash-and-burn agriculture. This gets a bit muddled* because Shargash kinda purges the agricultural aspects of himself into his "son" Alkor (iirc), but the version of Tolat preserves the more holistic death-and-life/war-and-love vibes, iirc. Jagrekriand in Theyalan mythology is generally just "the sky general of the Bad Emperor" so just an enemy figure. 

Anyway, long story short: is there room for a Shamanistic interpretation of Shargash/Tolat in Caladralander culture, or - and this is a bit outside the thread topic - would Caladralanders have some sort of Shargash/Tolat-adjacent minor deity that revolves specifically around slash and burn as a social practice, a minor son of Veskarthan or something, perhaps?

(*It gets even more muddled because Shargash/Alkor also is associated with wetland rice agriculture through his wife, but let's not dwell on this atm. Iirc, it's more of a mythical allegory for how the Alkothi subjugated the surrounding rural peasantry of Henjarl.)

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

(*It gets even more muddled because Shargash/Alkor also is associated with wetland rice agriculture through his wife, but let's not dwell on this atm. Iirc, it's more of a mythical allegory for how the Alkothi subjugated the surrounding rural peasantry of Henjarl.)

Tolat is loosely associated with rice agriculture on Melib, too - his sister Annilla is more so.

Orlanthi have stayed away from rice - rice-growing cultures have some psychological problem with the mytholog and ideology of Orlanthi free farmers.

(Weirdly enough the libertarian Frisian farmers were famous for their cooperation in reclaiming land without any higher authority but the divine above them.)

 

If you want to approach the god of the Red Planet shamanistically, by all means do so via a spirit cult.

There is such a son of Lodril/Veskarthan who does the burning: Oakfed. The myth of the three lowfires has it that Oakfed can be contained in Mahome, perhaps indicating a careful burning of a perimeter before setting off the wildfire.

[David Scott]

On 10/10/2023 at 1:04 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

This might be a tad silly but... Shargash/Tolat/Jagrekriand in addition to being gods of warfare are also mythically associated specifically with slash-and-burn agriculture. This gets a bit muddled* because Shargash kinda purges the agricultural aspects of himself into his "son" Alkor (iirc), but the version of Tolat preserves the more holistic death-and-life/war-and-love vibes, iirc. Jagrekriand in Theyalan mythology is generally just "the sky general of the Bad Emperor" so just an enemy figure. 

Anyway, long story short: is there room for a Shamanistic interpretation of Shargash/Tolat in Caladralander culture, or - and this is a bit outside the thread topic - would Caladralanders have some sort of Shargash/Tolat-adjacent minor deity that revolves specifically around slash and burn as a social practice, a minor son of Veskarthan or something, perhaps?

(*It gets even more muddled because Shargash/Alkor also is associated with wetland rice agriculture through his wife, but let's not dwell on this atm. Iirc, it's more of a mythical allegory for how the Alkothi subjugated the surrounding rural peasantry of Henjarl.)

To rephrase your question: Is there a spirit cult in Caladraland based around the Red Planet, that gives support to slash and burn?

Given that Caladraland is part of Orlanthi culture and calls the Red Planet Jagrekriand, Slayer of Umath, the likelihood is small. Shargash in all his forms gives no magic relating to farming in any form. However if your players want a Red Planet spirit cult, go for it.