Pegasus plateau and adultery

[ZedAlpha]

And honestly as an IRL polyamorous person, all of these aspects and viewpoints probably exist within the same people sometimes. Maybe one of the Earth priestesses and her husband are okay on paper with her spending the night with a brave adventurer, but when the time comes one or both of them get squeamish. Maybe the adventurer feels weird about "intruding," even if the couple involved is genuinely fine with it. Maybe the adventurer, the priestess, and her spouse are all perfectly okay with it, but the priestess's clan or immediate family don't want some grubby violent foreigner pawing at their friend/daughter/sister/cousin/mom? Maybe the jealousy comes from someone else in the community who doesn't get why said grubby violent foreigner gets to spend a night with one of the Four Winds, when they've been there the whole time? (Incels have always existed and have always sucked)

Maybe the Goddess herself comes to visit the temple--say, in Sacred Time--and is wondering why all these mortals aren't getting on with the ritual already and are so focused on their own stupid mortal hang-ups?

Or maybe the clan and the priestesses and their immediate families are all wondering why the PCs are the ones being so squeamish, and it could go into some odd drama that way? ("What, you're saying my wife isn't good enough for you? THE GODDESSES' BLESSINGS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!")

 

Plenty of ground for drama and roleplaying no matter which way you slice it.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

Just because you're sworn to a specific religious duty and will go along with it doesn't mean that you want to do it.

Indeed, if you wanted to do it, you wouldn’t have to swear — or they wouldn’t have to make you swear. They tell you coerced promises don’t count, but they have never meant it.

[g33k]

10 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

...
Or maybe the clan and the priestesses and their immediate families are all wondering why the PCs are the ones being so squeamish, and it could go into some odd drama that way? ("What, you're saying my wife isn't good enough for you? THE GODDESSES' BLESSINGS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!")

...

That one feels to me like is can easily run into "foul ball" territory, as it may conflate player attitudes with their PCs' attitudes.

I'd want buy-in & familiarity with some RPG Safety Tools before I'd be happy with this sort of thing at a table, whether I was player or GM.

[ZedAlpha]

ABSOLUTELY.

[Nick Brooke]

One of the best lessons for gamemasters preparing for sessions of Dogs in the Vineyard  is the suggestion that you should watch carefully to see what your players are apparently OK with (based on their in-character actions and decisions in previous sessions), and then twist the knife.

For example, "You think it's fine and dandy when your Wind Lord sleeps around with Sweet Green Women, so let's see what happens when he gets home after a seasonal adventure and catches Asborn Thriceborn, painted blue, in bed with his wife."

[Manunancy]

That reminds me of a fun moment in our RQ game - My Ynkini noble defending his (occasionnal) relationship with another PC's mother (she's widowed, he's unmaried, nothing wrong going on here) 'I wouldn't dare insulting my best friend's mom saying her 'No'. And of course couldn't resist teasing said friend by telling him 'Don'tworry, i won't force you to call me 'Father''...

Yes, he's got a bit of a naughty streak and a questionable sens of humor.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Manunancy

[ZedAlpha]

11 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

One of the best lessons for gamemasters preparing for sessions of Dogs in the Vineyard  is the suggestion that you should watch carefully to see what your players are apparently OK with (based on their in-character actions and decisions in previous sessions), and then twist the knife.

For example, "You think it's fine and dandy when your Wind Lord sleeps around with Sweet Green Women, so let's see what happens when he gets home after a seasonal adventure and catches Asborn Thriceborn, painted blue, in bed with his wife."

That style of GMing should also be done with serious care for the comfort zones of your PCs. When done well, it can be thought provoking, horrifying (in a fun way), or (in a fun way) boundary-pushing. When done wrong it feels like a gotcha and bullying. Make sure to check with your players and use safety tools in general whenever anything like this sort of stuff comes up, as @g33k said. I should have said that earlier, to be fair.

[Nick Brooke]

I agree, except that GMing should always be done with serious care for your players.

[ZedAlpha]

I've played in too many games where that was just taken for granted and the GM just didn't actually do any of that.

[Nick Brooke]

We seem to be in violent agreement, which will disappoint the rubberneckers.

[Qizilbashwoman]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:43 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Agamemnon did not say "sure Helen, you can run off with Paris"

I was just reading something about how this is part of a common West Asian/Eastern Mediterranean mythic structure involving an older man, a beautiful wife, and a virile young man. While I'm not saying it wasn't something people experienced in real life, this story in particular (Helen) is an exemplar of a narrative that was extremely prominent.

(Of course I have no idea where I read it, I'll try to find it but I'm leaving the country in two days it's kind of chaotic right now.)

The story of the Trojan War, of course, is a variant where the story is all about the men. Helen was taken as a prize.

[mfbrandi]

28 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

an older man, a beautiful wife, and a virile young man

Do we know anything about the relative ages of Menelaus and Paris?

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

The story of the Trojan War, of course, is a variant where the story is all about the men. Helen was taken as a prize.

This wasn't so much about adultery, but the breach of xenia (xenwia in Linear B), of the custom of guest-friendship, the rules of hospitality, an illegal and impious act in the shared culture of the eastern Mediterranean, of both Greece and Troy.

Paris had accepted guest-friendship from Menelaus, and then abducted his wife. Whether Helen consented or not would have been irrelevant to Homer's audience. Zeus being the patron and protector of strangers, Menelaus was duty-bound as a religious duty to avenge the violation of xenia whether he wanted Helen back or not. Whilst Menelaus might have been angry and vowed revenge if Paris had sneaked into the palace and taken Helen as a captive, it was so much much worse to come as a guest, exchange gifts, and then break the sacred bonds of xenia. Aphrodite might have promised Helen to Paris, but the way he took her broke the sacred laws of hospitality, and offended the King of the Gods. [Add in the Oath of Tyndareus, and you have a full mobilization of the Achaeans to punish the transgression.]

The effects of xenia, and the breaking of its obligations, are a common theme in Greek myths.

The Iliad isn't just about the men of course. Whilst it is set in a male dominated society, there are numerous women who play a greater or lesser role, ranging from the battle prize Briseus being unwillingly taken from Achilles (whose own honor is harmed, and who later says he loves her) to Hector's wife Andromache. 

I imagine that there is a similar custom to xenia among the Orlanthi.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by M Helsdon

[Rodney Dangerduck]

4 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

The story of the Trojan War, of course, is a variant where the story is all about the men.

Not seriously disagreeing.

But, it is interesting, to me at least, that Penelope and Athena are two of the very few intelligent and admirable characters overall.  🙂

[Qizilbashwoman]

45 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

But, it is interesting, to me at least, that Penelope and Athena are two of the very few intelligent and admirable characters overall.

oh i mean there are definitely big female characters (most divine); i meant that it was the men fighting over Helen, it wasn't about her in that sense. I agree.

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Do we know anything about the relative ages of Menelaus and Paris?

Paris was a younger man, he was the son of the King and Queen of Troy. His role is "handsome young virile prince"

[soltakss]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:30 PM, Brootse said:

Does it count as adultery if a married Wind Games contest winner, who worships one of Ernalda's Husband Gods, has sex with one of the priestesses? Or are they just re-enacting holy rites, so it doesn't violate divine oaths?

Legally it is probably OK, unless someone challenges them.

Morally, it depends on what the participants think.

However, there is probably no hard and fast rule. It's like if partners engage in threesomes or such like, whilst OK in theory it might have strange consequences in practice.